Airline reminder

[ISCS Yoda]

From another thread - emphasis added:

Check the TSA website on transporting firearms. They must be in checked baggage unloaded, and secured in a hard sided locked case. You must declare the unloaded handgun when checking in at the airline counter. Be prepared to demonstrate the firearm is unloaded if the airline asks you to do so. I had to do this twice in 40 years of flying. The airline will dictate where the ammo is transported. Most allow ammo in the same suitcase as the gun but a few want the ammo in a separate bag. TSA does not forbid ammo in the same bag but it is up to the airline's rules. Check your airlines website on how they want firearms transported.

Good advice. Be aware of two things more:

1. Sometimes airline personnel do not know the rules. Even if you carry the rules with you they are likely to need a TSA person to assist.

2. There is an INCREDIBLE misconception with respect to the hard sided, locked case that is required. It's so common now that it's no longer a misconception.

A "locked hard sided case" clearly meant a case designed to transport a firearm that was solid and could be locked, and could be checked onto a plane. However, it is vague enough to include any lockable, hard sided luggage, such as Samsonite, Delsey, Swiss Army, or similar hard luggage, such as these:

© Copyright 2016 Samsonite IP Holdings S.AR.L

Samsonite Carbon 2 20" Spinner

eBags USA © 1999 - 2016 eBags, Inc. All rights reserved.Y

Delsey Helium Titanium 29" Spinner Trolley - eBags.com

™ & © 2016 Target Brands, Inc.

Target : Expect More. Pay Less.

The fact that the item pictured is carry on baggage was not meant to fool anyone - IT CAN BE CHECKED as locked, hard sided luggage with a firearm inside.

The misconception is that these are a hard sided, lockable cases for shipping firearms in checked baggage on a plane:

© Copyright Plano 2016. All Rights Reserved

Plano Molding | 142200 Medium Frame Pistol Case - Hard Gun Cases - Hunting

©2016 MidwayUSA, Inc. All rights reserved. (Smith & Wesson copyright, too, I imagine)

Smith & Wesson Polymer Gun Box Up to 6 Barrels

I know of more than one person who flew with soft sided luggage with a handgun locked inside a small case similar to the ones pictured here and the airlines allowed it. I twice was barred by airline personnel from flying with a handgun in a lockable, hard piece of heavy luggage like the Samsonite pictured above, the gun being in a zippered compartment and not in a plastic case, until TSA personnel stepped in and told the airline ticket counter folks the suitcase was legal for firearms transport.

I do not know how those little cases inside soft luggage became acceptable but that was never the intent of the FOPA.

The following just finished what I borrowed from the other thread:

I carry a copy of both the TSA and airline rules when I travel. I flew with one or more handguns for the last 40 years without a problem. Be aware you must comply with the traveled to state's laws. California is notoriously gun unfriendly so I would be sure to peruse their laws before entering with a gun. If I recall California has an "approved handguns list" that may or may not apply to your handgun. I find the best information on the various state Department of Public Safety or Trooper websites. Most will have a frequently asked questions or firearms laws section to select.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Oh, credit for the quoted text belongs to akviper in a discussion about traveling to Las Vegas and Death Valley on a plane.

 

[Sportsdad60]

I just ordered a Pelican case yesterday. For travel purposes. I'm also taking a four-and-a-half hour course I believe it is Utah that offers the course that allows my conceal and carry and 36 or more States? Either way I travel a lot and I prefer to travel with my firearm.

 

[BB57]

Traveling with a checked handgun can get interesting if your flight is diverted due to weather, and you end up in a gun unfriendly state, have to pick up your luggage, and leave the airport before returning the next morning for your continuing flight.

In that case, you'll also want a copy of 18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms, and you'll want to follow the provisions of that law when traveling off airport to your nightly lodging and back to the airport.

 

[BB57]

I know of more than one person who flew with soft sided luggage with a handgun locked inside a small case similar to the ones pictured here and the airlines allowed it. I twice was barred by airline personnel from flying with a handgun in a lockable, hard piece of heavy luggage like the Samsonite pictured above, the gun being in a zippered compartment and not in a plastic case, until TSA personnel stepped in and told the airline ticket counter folks the suitcase was legal for firearms transport.

I do not know how those little cases inside soft luggage became acceptable but that was never the intent of the FOPA.

Soft sided luggage is pretty much the norm today, and I much prefer to have a small lockable case inside a soft side suitcase, than to check a larger hard sided case that looks like a gun case.

I've done that only once, when I found a deal I could not refuse on a long gun while traveling. Even then I broke the weapon down to fit in a shorter case. The risk of theft is just too high if it obviously looks like a gun case.

 

[BC38]

Funny, but I have always used a hard plastic case locked with TSA compliant padlocks inside a piece of soft-sided luggage - which I also lock with another TSA compliant padlock.
Last summer's trip to AZ to visit my mom I had 6 revolvers in one double-layered plastic case very similar to this one (3 guns per layer).

.
I also had two plastic ammo cans full of ammo. The pistol case and both ammo cans were locked inside of one soft-sided roll-along carry-on style checked bag. When I got there I even found an inspection notice in one of the ammo cans and another in the pistol case. No problems.
I have to believe that if it wasn't TSA compliant the way I had it set up they would have raised an issue.

 

[vt_shooter]

Traveling with a checked handgun can get interesting if your flight is diverted due to weather, and you end up in a gun unfriendly state, have to pick up your luggage, and leave the airport before returning the next morning for your continuing flight.

In that case, you'll also want a copy of 18 U.S. Code § 926A - Interstate transportation of firearms, and you'll want to follow the provisions of that law when traveling off airport to your nightly lodging and back to the airport.

If I had a handgun in my checked luggage, and my plane was diverted to say New York where I can not possess a handgun, I would refuse to take possession of my checked luggage. I simply do not own any guns that are worth the nightmare they would subject me to.

 

[bigwheelzip]

The TSA embedded a video on their "Transporting Firearms and Ammunition" page ( Transporting Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration ). In the video, they demonstrate a "locked case", which happens to be the same commonly used cabled case I use for the car.

Another potential hangup, is that the rules seem to prefer the secured transportation of ammo stored in its original manufactures box or similar container. A loaded mag might not be considered acceptable "storage".

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpHGp9Z01f8[/ame]

 

[BB57]

If I had a handgun in my checked luggage, and my plane was diverted to say New York where I can not possess a handgun, I would refuse to take possession of my checked luggage. I simply do not own any guns that are worth the nightmare they would subject me to.

That's where the Federal pass through law is very handy to have, although you still want to take pains not to create probable cause to be stopped so that you don't have to explain the legality of what you're doing.


It's your choice to leave the bag, but your bag will sit at the carousel until someone steals it or an airline employee picks it up and hauls it off to the lost baggage are - which is often un supervised and just screams "steal me". If the airline does eventually decide it's unclaimed, the airline might ship it to your final destination, but in a post 911 environment, airlines are hesitant to ship bags when the people who own them are not aboard the flight. And if it gets stolen, they will indicate it was properly delivered to the baggage carousel and your assertion you refused to pick it up is going to result in it being your loss and your problem.

----

I'm very careful to verify my bags are not short tagged when I fly government contract and non contract flights, where the ticket agent might not note the final destination and tag the bag to only the last contract destination. If that happens, getting them to ship the bag to where you are is problematic - even with a security clearance.

 

[Muss Muggins]

The TSA embedded a video on their "Transporting Firearms and Ammunition" page ( Transporting Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration ). In the video, they demonstrate a "locked case", which happens to be the same commonly used cabled case I use for the car.

Another potential hangup, is that the rules seem to prefer the secured transportation of ammo stored in its original manufactures box or similar container. A loaded mag might not be considered acceptable "storage".

Travel Tips: Traveling with Firearms - YouTube

That's the box I use. They're available in a couple different sizes, and it comes with a cable that can be used to secure the box to your luggage. Of course, "secure" is a relative term. Loaded magazines are generally not considered acceptable, so I always use a plastic ammo box, which generally has to be in a different pocket of your luggage.

 

[bigwheelzip]

.... ammo box, which generally has to be in a different pocket of your luggage.

I manage to squeeze one of those 20-round SD ammo boxes into the same steel case as the gun, by removing the foam in one corner.

 

[madmikeb]

I travel with a small Pelican case with a cutout for my 640 Pro and a 20 round box of ammo. This is locked and put inside a soft sided suitcase. Been doing this for several years and on many flights with no issues.

If you read the TSA rules and the rules for your airline this is quite acceptable.

 

[vt_shooter]

That's where the Federal pass through law is very handy to have, although you still want to take pains not to create probable cause to be stopped so that you don't have to explain the legality of what you're doing.


It's your choice to leave the bag, but your bag will sit at the carousel until someone steals it or an airline employee picks it up and hauls it off to the lost baggage are - which is often un supervised and just screams "steal me". If the airline does eventually decide it's unclaimed, the airline might ship it to your final destination, but in a post 911 environment, airlines are hesitant to ship bags when the people who own them are not aboard the flight. And if it gets stolen, they will indicate it was properly delivered to the baggage carousel and your assertion you refused to pick it up is going to result in it being your loss and your problem.

----

I'm very careful to verify my bags are not short tagged when I fly government contract and non contract flights, where the ticket agent might not note the final destination and tag the bag to only the last contract destination. If that happens, getting them to ship the bag to where you are is problematic - even with a security clearance.

My saying I would refuse to take possession of it does not mean I would walk away from it and allow someone to steal it; I'd bring to the attention of the airline that I can not take possession of it and that they need to safeguard the bag until I return to check in again for whatever flight they'd have me on.

If you did take possession of the bag, your nightmare would likely begin when you returned to check in again and declared a gun; If they then called over the police, which is a likely scenario, you'd then be screwed. It's all well and fine to be able to argue that a federal law is on the books, and that it should trump the state laws that say you can not have a handgun, but rest assured, whatever happens, you're not getting on the first flight you otherwise would have gotten on.

 

[Sportsdad60]

Funny, but I have always used a hard plastic case locked with TSA compliant padlocks inside a piece of soft-sided luggage - which I also lock with another TSA compliant padlock.
Last summer's trip to AZ to visit my mom I had 6 revolvers in one double-layered plastic case very similar to this one (3 guns per layer).

I also had two plastic ammo cans full of ammo. The pistol case and both ammo cans were locked inside of one soft-sided roll-along carry-on style checked bag. When I got there I even found an inspection notice in one of the ammo cans and another in the pistol case. No problems.
I have to believe that if it wasn't TSA compliant the way I had it set up they would have raised an issue.

Just to follow up, this gentleman means the CASE being TSA compliant. You do NOT want TSA having access to your locks (be it combination or key).

All firearms carried as checked baggage must be unloaded and packed in a locked, hard-sided container. You can use a single key or combination lock. You’re the only one who can have the key or combination. Don’t use TSA locks on the container that secures your firearm(s), because they aren’t approved for securing firearms.

TSA defines a locked container as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. If the case can be pulled open with little effort, it won’t be allowed to be brought aboard the aircraft. The factory case that came with your handgun may or may not meet this requirement.

 

[BC38]

Just to follow up, this gentleman means the CASE being TSA compliant. You do NOT want TSA having access to your locks (be it combination or key).

All firearms carried as checked baggage must be unloaded and packed in a locked, hard-sided container. You can use a single key or combination lock. You’re the only one who can have the key or combination. Don’t use TSA locks on the container that secures your firearm(s), because they aren’t approved for securing firearms.

Hmmn, that's interesting - especially since it is exactly the opposite of what I was told by the airline's customer service. The info I was given was that the case containing the gun is subject to being opened and inspected by the TSA and therefore needed to be secured with a lock they would be able to open. Otherwise, if they wanted to inspect it - say to confirm that it was unloaded - they would have to page me to the TSA office to bring them the keys, and that could cause me to miss my flight. Of course failure to do so would cause my bag to miss the flight.

Now I'm wondering if maybe the agent was confused and that statement only applies to the OUTER case (not the actual gun case) and I misread it. Guess I'm gonna' have to do some more research on that. Where did you get that text in the paragraph you italicized if I might ask? I'm assuming it is a quote lifted from somewhere...

 

[b_san]

The agent was clearly confused. The gun case must only be unlockable by you, if the TSA needs access after you've dropped the bag off then they are supposed to page you to come unlock it for them. Your suitcase itself can have a worthless TSA lock on it but there's really no point in using one as everyone has access to the bypass keys.

 

[BC38]

The agent was clearly confused. The gun case must only be unlockable by you, if the TSA needs access after you've dropped the bag off then they are supposed to page you to come unlock it for them. Your suitcase itself can have a worthless TSA lock on it but there's really no point in using one as everyone has access to the bypass keys.

LOL, everyone? Do you have one of those bypass keys? I know I don't

Like I said, in my last post, I was told that IF they can't get into the case and want to they will page you to the TSA office to unlock it for them.

Problem is they WON'T hold your flight for you while you deal with the issue, and if you miss it, TOO BAD, SO SAD for you!

If you reread my last post you'll see I also said that if they page you and you don't respond, you may make the flight, but your bag will be left behind.

Neither choice of missing the flight or having my bag and gun left behind sounds very good to me. How about you?

 

[GaryS]

DO NOT, under any circumstances use TSA compliant locks. Unless you arrive at the airport just before you are due to board, the TSA will have plenty of time to find you. Note that the TSA has no interest in inspecting your fire arms. They are interested only in comfirming you checked them properly and that there are no prohibited items in the case. Most of the time they don't even look inside.

I'll have more later. I'm on my phone so it's too much to type now.

Hmmn, that's interesting - especially since it is exactly the opposite of what I was told by the airline's customer service. The info I was given was that the case containing the gun is subject to being opened and inspected by the TSA and therefore needed to be secured with a lock they would be able to open. Otherwise, if they wanted to inspect it - say to confirm that it was unloaded - they would have to page me to the TSA office to bring them the keys, and that could cause me to miss my flight. Of course failure to do so would cause my bag to miss the flight.

Now I'm wondering if maybe the agent was confused and that statement only applies to the OUTER case (not the actual gun case) and I misread it. Guess I'm gonna' have to do some more research on that. Where did you get that text in the paragraph you italicized if I might ask? I'm assuming it is a quote lifted from somewhere...

 

[italiansport]

Year ago I ended up at a gun show without a hard plastic lockable case. I bought what I could find to transport a couple of pistols I bought which was a small showcase with a plexiglass lid and wooden sides and bottom that was lockable.
I was sent to TSA and the agents refused to allow the case so I asked for a supervisor. I asked what was wrong with it while pounding on the lid at the same time. He agreed it was ok and let it pass but only after I did a couple of verbal appraisals of his own firearms for him!
Jim

 

[Onomea]

I had a baggage handler guy tell me I could carry my bag onto the plane after he stood there and watched me declare my handguns to the airline ticket agent, fill out the required card, unlock the hard case with the two handguns, place the card within the hard case, reposition the case within my bag, and rezip up my bag....

I was dumfounded. I was discreet, sure, but I was right in front of him.

I just said, "No," and pushed the bag toward him to place onto the conveyor belt.