CMP 1911's

[Watchdog]

I would definitely have given priority to current service members and veterans - after all, these were the guns most vets learned to use while in the military. If they were trusted with them then, they should be trusted with them now.

I have to respectfully disagree with that, especially the part about "current service members" being given priority. There's a reason the CMP is called the Civilian Marksmanship Program. I served fifty years ago, but some boot recruit should get priority over me? I don't think so. I also don't see how the issue of "trust" should figure into the equation.

Somebody in the CMP has their objectives, standards and priorities screwed up for politically correct reasons.

John

I just think this is another case of looking for a hidden agenda or motive that doesn't exist. That's just my opinion. I don't see some sort of 1911 marketing conspiracy here.

I have seen this figure mentioned else where. I guess I don't have the collector mentality as I just don't see them worth that.

What do you think they're worth? Have you recently tried to buy a WWI or WWII era G.I. 1911 or 1911A1? Have you priced them on today's market? The days of $500 and $600 1911s are over, folks. Especially the harder-to-find ones like Union Switch & Signal or Remington UMC or Springfield. Or even just a plain ol' Colt in top notch condition.

In the threads about the CMP 1911s, there have been people talking about "I picked one up at a pawn shop for four hundred bucks?" Yeah? When was that? 1979?

No one said anything about "giving away" the 1911's to vets.

I'm fairly certain the member meant "giving away" in a figurative sense.

I wont a SINGER.

People in Hell want ice water.

 

[Watchdog]

Don`t hold your breath,rumor has it rack grade pistols will be 1000.00.

I'd really like for someone who's knowledgeable to explain the term "rack grade" to me. Seriously, what does that mean?

Because if I found a fully functional genuine G.I. 1911 for a grand, I'd pounce on it and as many others as I could afford (if I had the money).

 

[ankona]

Too much CMP nonsense to gain my interest. I guess I'll just have to spend the $$$ on a DW VBOB.

 

[JohnRippert]

Where's my "sitting back eating popcorn" emoji?


Awful lot of sour grapes in this post . Not what I normally expect from this site.

That said, I have seen the same thing on all the sites with CMP 1911 threads.

 

[chief38]

To own a genuine USGI WWl, WWll, Korean War or Vietnam War era 1911 would be great - but cutting through all the red tape makes it a tedious ordeal. While I have not ruled going through the process out, we first need to see if they will ever be released.

 

[murphydog]

I'd really like for someone who's knowledgeable to explain the term "rack grade" to me. Seriously, what does that mean?

Because if I found a fully functional genuine G.I. 1911 for a grand, I'd pounce on it and as many others as I could afford (if I had the money).

Here you go - the names sound arbitrary but fair-excellent is more objective.

M1 Garand - Civilian Marksmanship ProgramCivilian Marksmanship Program

 

[reddog81]

To own a genuine USGI WWl, WWll, Korean War or Vietnam War era 1911 would be great - but cutting through all the red tape makes it a tedious ordeal. While I have not ruled going through the process out, we first need to see if they will ever be released.

It looks more daunting than it actually is. The only requirements you might not already meet is belonging to a CMP club and the proof of marksmanship activities. Spend $20 and joint th Garand Collectors Association, and the list of activities that qualify for the marksmanship is pretty lenient.

 

[PPS1980]

I'd really like for someone who's knowledgeable to explain the term "rack grade" to me. Seriously, what does that mean?

Because if I found a fully functional genuine G.I. 1911 for a grand, I'd pounce on it and as many others as I could afford (if I had the money).

CMP has fairly clear definitions of the various grades used for the M1s. It's really all about wear and tear and original vs. replacement parts. Not that complicated.

 

[GKC]

Maybe I just think differently than most (which is often the case) but if I could get my hands on the actual pistol I was issued/carried, then it would be worth a lot to me. Otherwise, there is no shortage of 1911s on the market, new and used, so to jump through all these hoops and delays and (possibly) pay a premium? Nah. (I do understand the historical value to many, but I'm just saying what I think.)

 

[Old Corp]

Once more, we're all shown that when it absolutely HAS to be fouled-up, convoluted and fu-barred, no one beats our government.

 

[PPS1980]

While I agree that the double NICS check is pure stupidity. I must say: Wow, tough crowd.

CMP has mandates. The foremost mandate is to increase CIVILIAN marksmanship. They are tasked with providing weapons to civilians that will allow them to learn the fundamentals of good marksmanship, to practice said skills, and to work to better those skills. All their requirements make sense if you know what CMP is, and don't try to re-create it into an image you believe it should be.

If you really understand CMPs purpose then not giving veterans or active duty personnel preference makes perfect sense. Those people have had military marksmanship training (well, to be fair they have it on paper in most of the services).

Again, the rumors about the 1911s have been hot and heavy and nearly 100% wrong. I'm waiting for the final say from CMP, but have to say that their latest decisions have been a breath of fresh air compared to the speculations offered by the know-everything crowd.

 

[ladder13]

Where's my "sitting back eating popcorn" emoji?


Awful lot of sour grapes in this post . Not what I normally expect from this site.

That said, I have seen the same thing on all the sites with CMP 1911 threads.

Great.
Gives me hope that I’ll be able to snag one or two.

 

[Weimar]

I do find it funny that whenever someone says, $1000 - no way - then the next breath from someone else is, have you seen what really nice condition prices Colts, Remingtons, etc go for!

Sure, but most of the ones that will be rack grade will have been in service for 70 years - some will be nice, many will be very worn. AND you can pick up a serviceable 1911a1 that was stolen from the govt in the 40's, 50's or Vietnam era that is in nicer shape than many of these, for a decent price. If they sell like garands at CMP, I expect them to be just a few hundred under market value. NOT the mint ones that go for $4000 but the average rack grade and up, that you can still find for $700-$1100. They might be missing the gov't stamp (scrubbed off), or something wrong with them.

But on the lower end of CMP rating, it might be bomar sights on a slide, or very well used, replaced slide, or who knows what for the lower end ones.
I expect they will have rack grade close to a $1000 (Mark Johnson from CMP stated he guessed that was a rough value) and the less better shape Field grade will be maybe $150-$200 less and then more correct / better condition will shoot up. Just like the M1 Carbine and IHC releases in the last couple of years....

 

[BigBill]

Too much red tape bs. Who’s going to get them? We ain’t in the click were screwed.

 

[jsfricks]

Too much red tape bs. Who’s going to get them? We ain’t in the click were screwed.

How does someone "in the click" have a better chance of getting one? The way they're doing this means anyone could get one, not just special people. Your request will be put in a random number generator. I don't think those play favors. If you've ever bought a gun or ammo through the CMP then you've been through most of the "red tape" already. Just a couple more have been added. I'd only be interested in one if I could be guaranteed it was WWII era, but that's not guaranteed. And, one gun a year means dealers won't be buying them up and reselling them at big prices at gun shows and gives more folks a chance of owning one. Sounds fair to me.

 

[Watchdog]

Too much red tape bs. Who’s going to get them? We ain’t in the click were screwed.

Just the other day in this thread, you said you weren't going to buy one anyway, so why are you complaining about it?

Buy? None, positively none. The ones in the click get the best ones.

 

[ladder13]

Who exactly is the clique?

 

[Watchdog]

Once more, we're all shown that when it absolutely HAS to be fouled-up, convoluted and fu-barred, no one beats our government.

If you're referring to the CMP, you're a bit off base on that.

The CMP is a federally chartered 501(c)(3) corporation, but is not run by the government.

The CMP is overseen by a Board of Governors, none of whom are government officials. Some may have held elected office in the past, but no longer do so. There are also retired military officers on the Board.

One member of the Board of Directors is Allan Cors, whose name should be familiar to all NRA members.

 

[Watchdog]

Where's my "sitting back eating popcorn" emoji?

Awful lot of sour grapes in this post.

Sour grapes? Here? No, surely not.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

I'd really like for someone who's knowledgeable to explain the term "rack grade" to me. Seriously, what does that mean?

Because if I found a fully functional genuine G.I. 1911 for a grand, I'd pounce on it and as many others as I could afford (if I had the money).

To properly understand "rack grade" you must first understand "service grade", as used by CMP. "Service grade" indicates that the piece meets all criteria for issue to the troops under DOD guidelines. "Rack grade" indicates something less than service grade (muzzle erosion, extreme wear and tear, etc), based upon general standards for issue.

Fully functional GI pistols are not particularly rare. What is actually rare is the fully functional GI pistol in all original condition (all original parts, original finish, etc). The vast majority of remaining stocks of 1911 pistols have been arsenal overhauled at least once, some more than once, during which no effort was expended to reassemble pistols with original parts. Pistols made by Colt, Remington Rand, Ithaca, Union Switch & Signal, and the (very few) completed by Singer were all made under a contractual requirement that every part in every pistol must be fully interchangeable with every other pistol by every other manufacturer.

The last M1911A1 pistol order was completed in 1945. No other pistols were ever taken in by the military (other than special purpose pistols such as National Match guns, etc). All of the CMP guns are over 70 years old, most have been arsenal overhauled and/or refinished, and very few remain in original configuration.

Those hoping for a jackpot win with a CMP 1911 pistol order are likely to be disappointed. My last major purchase of service pistols was from a US Coast Guard vessel transitioning to the M9 Beretta, on which my son was a junior petty officer in about 1992. We acquired 11 M1911A1 pistols by lawful sale. None were fully original (Colt, Rem-Rand, Ithaca, US&S examples included). Four of the 11 had been arsenal overhauled, and were so marked.

I suspect that many of the CMP pistols will be worth more when reduced to used parts for the collector trade (to restore other pistols to as-issued condition) than they will be worth as delivered. 100,000 pistols, released at the rate of 10,000 per year, may have a slight impact on the collector market for a short time, but I doubt that existing examples of original pistols will suffer any loss of value due to CMP sales.