Fun With Glocks, or Not

[Walkingwolf]

JMO If you carry, you should be able to holster, unholster, load, unload without looking at your weapon. If you are looking at your weapon you are not looking at the developing situation which is something that can keep you alive.

For people who carry a revolver, checking to see if your revolver is loaded is oh-so-easy. Replacing live nickle or brass colored ammo with lead or copper bullets and primers with red or blue monochromatic andonized aluminum snap caps is straightforward. Then you can use the actual weapon for practice and not a facimilie which may not be a perfect match.

Tell that to the librarian that was shot by an officer using supposed training ammo. Never mind she died, can't tell her.

Details released in woman's death during Punta Gorda police exercise - News - Sarasota Herald-Tribune - Sarasota, FL

The above incident ABSOLUTELY would not have happened with a NON firearm.

Bang oops might sound funny but it is not. I know of nobody fatally shot with a non firearm training gun, nobody. Maybe you can cite a case for me.

Rule 1. Treat all firearms as if they are always loaded!

 

[PR24]

I wonder if there are any actual numbers out there that support the theory that Glocks are more dangerous. Between "pull trigger to disassemble" and "Glock Leg", it seems like there should be some supporting data.

Glocks (& any firearm{s}) are only dangerous when used by abject doofusses!

He had what I call an unintentional discharge. He was prepping to shoot, but not at that point. There wasn't a mechanical failure, there wasn't a holster/equipment failure, there was a brain failure! Likewise, he failed to adhere to rules #2 & #3!

Why would anyone deploy a holster without thoroughly familiarizing oneself with it's operation?? He made a egregious error by:
1-carrying the gun in an unfamiliar location,
2-by using a very new holster in the unfamiliar location,
3-practicing a draw stroke from the aforementioned location/device while he's obviously distracted and not focused on the task he was executing!

Like I'm fond of saying to in-service and academy recruits: "KEEP YOUR BOOGER HOOK OFF THE BANG SWITCH!" When I catch them with said snot retrieval device on the trigger.

For the better part of 21 years, I have carried Glocks on and off duty. If you've read some of the past posts, I am not a Glock fanboy. They're good and reliable, but they're ugly, boring and plastic. However, they work quite well when they need too. Also, I have yet to amputate any digits or other bits of my anatomy because I'm not a fool! Glocks will ONLY go off when someone/something makes them. Other than that, they're quite safe.

 

[Old cop]

A close friend did the exact same thing a few months ago w/his 1911. He shot off the end of his left index finger below the second joint. He recalls reaching for his 1911 to put it away before going out w/his wife but not much else. He said it never hurt him either and he kept the stump, but got rid of all his semi autos. I immediately got rid of my Glock 17 b/c I had a close call, not a ND or AD, but getting ready to unload then field strip. I only used the G-17 for LOESA qualification so I’ll have to find something else this year.

 

[Walkingwolf]

A close friend did the exact same thing a few months ago w/his 1911. He shot off the end of his left index finger below the second joint. He recalls reaching for his 1911 to put it away before going out w/his wife but not much else. He said it never hurt him either and he kept the stump, but got rid of all his semi autos. I immediately got rid of my Glock 17 b/c I had a close call, not a ND or AD, but getting ready to unload then field strip. I only used the G-17 for LOESA qualification so I’ll have to find something else this year.

This is the reason I do not take my safety off on draw. It does not come off until on target. I also take my time holstering a gun, and most the time my gun stays in the holster. The more a person handles a firearm when it is not necessary the more opportunity for a ND, IMO.

I am not a god, a robot, I am human, so like the rest of us I can make a mistake. I keep that in mind every single time I am around firearms, and treat them with the same respect I treated a band saw when I was a butcher.

 

[WCCPHD]

Friends don't let friends buy Glocks.

 

[TomkinsSP]

I see no reason not to look at your holster when putting the gun away. I mean, why are you re-holstering your gun if there is still a life threatening situation developing?

While I am certain there are others: You just used your carry weapon to keep Mr. Sociopath from killing you. He is down, still breathing and you hear sirens. You kick his weapon out of his reach. Holstering your firearm in such a situation is preferable to holding it in your hand as the police arrive. But you want to be watching Mr. Sociopath and making sure he doesn't have accomplices. There is just never a NEED to be looking at your weapon.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Tell that to the librarian that was shot by an officer using supposed training ammo. Never mind she died, can't tell her.

Details released in woman's death during Punta Gorda police exercise - News - Sarasota Herald-Tribune - Sarasota, FL

The above incident ABSOLUTELY would not have happened with a NON firearm.

Bang oops might sound funny but it is not. I know of nobody fatally shot with a non firearm training gun, nobody. Maybe you can cite a case for me.

Rule 1. Treat all firearms as if they are always loaded!

Bang, oops is simply tragic for everyone involved.

I certainly see the point of having a blue gun to practice disarming an assaliant, hand to hand, retention, securing a prisoner, searching a prisoner etc.

Blue guns are an approximation, perhaps a very good one, of the real thing, they are not made of the same composition, thier buttons and levers, triggers, hammers and slides do not move. If you (or the factory) put different than standard grips or sights on your weapon it will holster differently. The weapon may bind or snag or be very different holstering and unholstering because of greater or lessened friction. You need to know BEFORE you really need your firearm. S&W has manufactured six million M10s. But the only important one is the one in YOUR holster. It is the one you should be practicing your draw and fire from consealment, using snap caps of course.

Lots of people have been surpised when they heard boom upon pulling the trigger of a firearm they thought had an engaged safety. Lots of people have been shot by guns they thought were unloaded. Lots of people have died in automobiles 20 feet from a stop sign because they stopped and then proceeded thoughtlessly. People do stupid caca. Mechanical things, threshers, cars, airplanes, construction cranes, firearms are famously unforgiving of careless behavior. One must have ones brain engaged when doing potentially dangerous tasks.

I see why organizations love blue guns. And if you feel safer at home practicing with a blue gun that's great. But if Dave Dodobird thinks he can ignore safe firearm handling practices and still be safe because he only ever uses a blue gun, he isn't unless he also CCWs a blue gun.

 

[Walkingwolf]

One question. Would the person in the video still have 10 fingers if he used a blue gun for practicing his draw?

Answer only yes, or no.

 

[Philadelphia Patriot]

I don’t like manual or grip safeties.

 

[TomkinsSP]

One question. Would the person in the video still have 10 fingers if he used a blue gun for practicing his draw?

Answer only yes, or no.

Yes, but you cannot possibly belive that as a police officer he would not have occasion to at some point in time draw whatever weapon he was carrying. And unless his department thought he was so irresponsible that he should carry a blue gun on duty, (don't laugh I have known some that description fits) he would eventually be drawing a loaded weapon. Quite frankly as a member of the public I feel safer that his Negligent Discharge occurred in his house, than on the streets.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Yes is correct, the other does not change that playing with a gun is different than using a gun in SD, or on duty. The same learning can come from using training devices instead of the onslaught of ND's from this very ignorant practice of not using safety training devices. Instead macho bravado turns into tragedy.

I would have preferred he trained safely, and often, SO it didn't happen in the streets. Instead just like the chief of Fayetteville police he brought ridicule to the department by careless gun handling.

 

[Rastoff]

While I am certain there are others:..

(I snipped out the example for brevity.)

As you say, there can be many "what if" situations that can support any line of thought. It's also important for me to say that I don't disagree with what you've said. Not having to look at the holster is better. However, I like to come down on the side of safety. For every time you have to holster your gun while the police are inbound, there are thousands of times when you need to holster your gun without the police bearing down on your position.

You can also drop/place your gun on the ground just as you see the police roll up. That may be a discussion for another thread.

As I said earlier, I have no difficulty holstering my gun without looking. I just think it will be safer for the vast majority of those who carry to holster by looking as they do it.

So, I say, look at your holster if you feel you need to. That's far preferable to an ND.

 

[Rastoff]

One question. Would the person in the video still have 10 fingers if he used a blue gun for practicing his draw?

Answer only yes, or no.

Yes, but that's not the issue here. He states in the video that:

1. He was preparing to go out so, he had his live gun, loaded.
2. He had made a habit of drawing/presenting his gun every time he put it in the holster.

He had created a scenario where an ND was likely to happen because of the habits he created. If not then, it was going to get him sometime. He also used a lazy support hand. Because of this, it's likely that he would have shot himself sometime later at a range because it wasn't his habit to secure his support hand while presenting the gun.

Of course this is all speculation on my part. Even so, he seemed to work hard to create the perfect storm for himself.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Yes, but that's not the issue here. He states in the video that:

1. He was preparing to go out so, he had his live gun, loaded.
2. He had made a habit of drawing/presenting his gun every time he put it in the holster.

He had created a scenario where an ND was likely to happen because of the habits he created. If not then, it was going to get him sometime. He also used a lazy support hand. Because of this, it's likely that he would have shot himself sometime later at a range because it wasn't his habit to secure his support hand while presenting the gun.

Of course this is all speculation on my part. Even so, he seemed to work hard to create the perfect storm for himself.

He should have never been practicing with a live handgun. The time for that type of practice, especially at home with the wife, is a training gun. He screwed up, it would only been a matter of time until something went wrong. Almost all of these ND's can be prevented with common sense.

Once my gun goes in the holster IT STAYS in the holster unless needed. Any practice I do with drawing is done only with a training gun. Dry fire practice is done no different then live fire training. That means a safe backstop, too many ND's happen with "unloaded guns" or with dummy ammo.

People use these ND's against us, and we must encourage safe practice to protect our rights. I don't expect people to be perfect, I just don't want them to be ignorant while handling a gun.

 

[Rastoff]

I completely agree Walkingwolf....to a point. You can do dry practice at home with a real (not live) firearm. I have a very specific set of rules I use to make it safe. I've attached a copy for anyone to check out if they want.

 

[Mister X]

He wasn't practicing, he said he was getting ready to go out and always checks to see if his gear is situated by drawing his weapon. In this instance, he did so very carelessly while envisioning a defense scenario.

 

[Old cop]

These are all the reasons NOT to have a carry “rotation” where the platforms are different, as in revolver & semi auto. Just my humble opinion and I mean no disrespect to anyone.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I completely agree Walkingwolf....to a point. You can do dry practice at home with a real (not live) firearm. I have a very specific set of rules I use to make it safe. I've attached a copy for anyone to check out if they want.

Dry fire practice is safe with a proper backstop, and only with a proper backstop. All safety rules should be followed. Drawing exercises should be done with a non firearm. With a non firearm there is no way for a gunshot wound, or property damage.

 

[Walkingwolf]

He wasn't practicing, he said he was getting ready to go out and always checks to see if his gear is situated by drawing his weapon. In this instance, he did so very carelessly while envisioning a defense scenario.

That IS practicing/playing, a live handgun should not leave the holster unless it is for maintenance, storage, range, or in need of SD. I feel sorry for him, but what he did was extremely ignorant.

 

[Smoke]

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WyF8RHM1OCg[/ame]