UPDATED at post 34 6/16/2018: Bear with me while I bring up another griz in the news

[vigil617]

Grizzly mother shot and killed by hikers, two cubs orphaned | Local | jhnewsandguide.com

With the mauling and fortunate survival of the lady researcher recently still fresh in mind, I stumbled across this story out of Wyoming about the griz sow shot by hikers. Details are still few, but the basic outline is there, along with what I thought was an interesting discussion of the growing population of griz in the area where this happened. There's also discussion of the annual griz hunt there, too. Seems fatal encounters between griz and hikers are rather uncommon, but might be on the upswing given a number of factors.

If any of our Wyomingans (is that the right word?) hears or sees any further details about this, let us know. I'd be interested in what the hikers were carrying, why they had to fire, and, of course, what caliber.

Not making light of the tragedy involved with the two cubs that have not been located and likely will perish, making this a three-bear kill.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

What caliber for hikers?

Ivan

 

[Texas Star]

Note the negative slant to the story, the headline making the hikers seem like cruel people who orphaned those cubs.

I haven't read the story yet, but if hikers shot a bear, they probably had cause. And a mother bear with cubs is likely to attack people.

 

[vigil617]

I don't necessarily agree there's a negative slant, Texas Star; it's a bit hard to write a headline when a dead mother is involved and we don't know what the circumstances of the shooting were. That aside, though, you're absolutely right about humans and sow-and-cubs being an especially dangerous encounter in the wild, especially if the humans get between the two.

I have a hunch it was a "good shoot;" I'd just be interested in knowing more about what happened.

 

[vonn]

People will do things and go places that will bring them into bear territory and occasionally bad things will happen. Perhaps a birthing time where use of likely areas of conflict are closed to the public would help. With apex predators you are always taking a chance of a dangerous encounter. Not any easy answers without destroying all the bears. Not sure hunters will put any fear into a big male grizzly but people feeding bears etc. needs to be stopped for sure.

 

[Texas Star]

I don't necessarily agree there's a negative slant, Texas Star; it's a bit hard to write a headline when a dead mother is involved and we don't know what the circumstances of the shooting were. That aside, though, you're absolutely right about humans and sow-and-cubs being an especially dangerous encounter in the wild, especially if the humans get between the two.

I have a hunch it was a "good shoot;" I'd just be interested in knowing more about what happened.

Well, me, too. So, I read the story. Although it lacked details, it said the shooting was indeed defensive.

There is an emotional difference between saying a mother was shot and that a threatening female bear was shot. Liberal headline writers try for the angst effect, putting humans just defending themselves in a bad light with the average reader.

 

[Skeet 028]

Just a statement by someone who lives near and hunts in bear country. Anyone who can read can see the negative slant on the article...but that is the whole point . One...where the story was published..This was an article from Jackson Wy...Used to be called Jackson Hole before the uber liberals from elsewhere moved in. This article was absolutely slanted to the liberal viewpoint. There is an argument going on in the area because of the proposed "Bear hunt" in the Yellowstone region. The liberals don't want the hunt to proceed. The major funding for the anti hunt comes from out of the region. Understand the area in question is very small in relation to population so the average resident knows many others here. Until about 15 years ago the number of bear/human encounters were relatively low. There has been a BIG push from out of the area to have more grizzlies. Wolves also but that is another story. May seem as though I am anti bear...I am not. The fact is if you have a deadly encounter it is investigated as a crime. The bears in the area have very little to no fear of humans. I personally know 5 people who have been attacked and another was killed. When I was in Alaska the grizzlies acted in a much different manner..see a human and 90% of the time it was whoosh..and they were gone...the majority of the rest, it was snarl growl false charge and then they left. They had a fear of humans. The bears here have much more contact with humans and they still feel they are the top of the food chain as such. What these people want is no people hiking camping hunting(of anything) or using the "not so wilderness" areas. Most live in large towns and cities(out of state) and have very little reason to want to visit the out of doors. Part of the allure of living here is the fact you can go into areas where you hardly ever see a human and do get to see nature in it's almost original form. Personally I like seeing the wild animals in the area. Kinda neat to be able to sneak up on a moose to about 10-15 ft.. Happened to walk up on a Big kitty deer hunting one day,,,at that same 10 ft or so. Spooked me a good bit too. Where I hunt elk I see a bear 6 out of 10 times. If you happen to shoot a critter(deer elk or moose) the percentages go even higher. They want what you have too. Easier to catch and they have learned we are lower on the food chain....so whatever it may be belongs to them. I don't know about the "cubs" that were referenced here...but some cubs stay with momma for as much as 2 years or so I have been told..How old were they? When the cubs leave their mother they are usually chased off by another male looking to make some new cubs. The way of nature. I can ell you for a fact...if what happened in the encounter to end up with a dead grizzly will be investigated thoroughly. As far as bear spray...it can work but then again ...it may not. Mosty people that are attacked by bears will get chewed on even if they have a handgun. My best iea of a bear gun is an 8 or 9 shot shotgun with slugs...not buckshot...slugs. So when it comes to this article ...read it not as news but as political speak. Yep even here in Wyoming we have what some call the drive by media...or fake news. I can tell you..I do not want a bear encounter of any kind. I do think that I should be able to hunt hike ride or whatever up in the mountains without big brother ort sister looking over my shoulder...or dictating that I must carry bear spray and defend myself with it Daummm I hope the wind is blowing away from ME

 

[vigil617]

Well, me, too. So, I read the story. Although it lacked details, it said the shooting was indeed defensive.

There is an emotional difference between saying a mother was shot and that a threatening female bear was shot. Liberal headline writers try for the angst effect, putting humans just defending themselves in a bad light with the average reader.

I had read the story, too, Texas Star. After reading it, that's when I wanted more details. I don't see any explaining why it was self-defense. It also doesn't explain how the griz was "threatening" the hikers -- a word never used in the story. Maybe we'll find out more in the days to come, and maybe there'll be information there that might help somebody else down the road. I just hope the deadly force used was justified and didn't become necessary because of boneheadedness of the hikers. Stuff happens in the wilderness; I know ya gotta be prepared, and part of the allure of going out is that it comes with an element of danger you have to be willing to accept.

 

[Skeet 028]

So far the only stories out there are re-hashes of the original Jackson paper. Wy Game and fish will have a factual report some time soon I think

 

[keith44spl]

I just can't see where folk try to humanize animals.....

The bear was a sow with cubs...…...

A sow with cubs are to be avoided at all cost....When you can.

But, when it comes right down to it, I intend on defending myself and
those in my charge with deadly force. Just because a sow has cubs does not mean
she will get a free roll at me or mine. My bona fide (Genesis 1:26)

Not to be mis-understood, I like bears, large and small. But, that doesn't mean I'm
going to let one maul me if I can stop it. I respect bears, I strive to co-exist with them
when I'm in their territory. It's a balancing act, give a bear a way out and let him take it, if he will.


(It is my opinion, that the bears that range the Greater Yellowstone have been harassed
by those that want to study their behavior and such to the point that they (the bears)
have lost their fear of humans and see us as a threat to their habitat.)


I had a sow grizzly with cubs come into my camp one night in Alaska....She left
us alone and we let her leave our camp without incident with her cubs in tow.


I had a blackie try to run up my britches leg once...Stopped her at about 10 feet....
(it now resides as a rug in my den)

.
If ya really want to know how much starch ya got in ya....Just come across an ol bear
givin' ya the stink eye in the middle of the trail, while your trying to settle a string of
half broke pack mules and a snorty cowpony....You'll sure nuff find out what yur made out of.

*Added;
Officials: Wyoming grizzly killed in encounter with hikers - KIFI


.

 

[vigil617]

I just can't see where folk try to humanize animals.....

The bear was a sow with cubs...…...

A sow with cubs are to be avoided at all cost....When you can.

But, when it comes right down to it, I intend on defending myself and
those in my charge with deadly force. Just because a sow has cubs does not mean
she will get a free roll at me or mine. My bona fide (Genesis 1:26)

Not to be mis-understood, I like bears, large and small. But, that doesn't mean I'm
going to let one maul me if I can stop it. I respect bears, I strive to co-exist with them
when I'm in their territory. It's a balancing act, give a bear a way out and let him take it, if he will.


(It is my opinion, that the bears that range the Greater Yellowstone have been harassed
by those that want to study their behavior and such to the point that they (the bears)
have lost their fear of humans and see us as a threat to their habitat.)


I had a sow grizzly with cubs come into my camp one night in Alaska....She left
us alone and we let her leave our camp without incident with her cubs in tow.


I had a blackie try to run up my britches leg once...Stopped her at about 10 feet....
(it now resides as a rug in my den)

.
If ya really want to know how much starch ya got in ya....Just come across an ol bear
givin' ya the stink eye in the middle of the trail, while your trying to settle a string of
half broke pack mules and a snorty cowpony....You'll sure nuff find out what yur made out of.

*Added;
Officials: Wyoming grizzly killed in encounter with hikers - KIFI


.

Thanks for that, Mr. Keith. Couldn't agree more, and the color you add with those encounter stories is always a pleasure to read.

When we go into the wilderness realistically prepared for what we might encounter, we are the apex predators. As the old saying goes, "no brag, just fact." We can and should be mindful and respectful of what we share the trail with, as I hope the hikers were.

 

[badge]

Just a statement by someone who lives near and hunts in bear country. Anyone who can read can see the negative slant on the article...but that is the whole point . One...where the story was published..This was an article from Jackson Wy...Used to be called Jackson Hole before the uber liberals from elsewhere moved in. This article was absolutely slanted to the liberal viewpoint. There is an argument going on in the area because of the proposed "Bear hunt" in the Yellowstone region. The liberals don't want the hunt to proceed. The major funding for the anti hunt comes from out of the region. Understand the area in question is very small in relation to population so the average resident knows many others here. Until about 15 years ago the number of bear/human encounters were relatively low. There has been a BIG push from out of the area to have more grizzlies. Wolves also but that is another story. May seem as though I am anti bear...I am not. The fact is if you have a deadly encounter it is investigated as a crime. The bears in the area have very little to no fear of humans. I personally know 5 people who have been attacked and another was killed. When I was in Alaska the grizzlies acted in a much different manner..see a human and 90% of the time it was whoosh..and they were gone...the majority of the rest, it was snarl growl false charge and then they left. They had a fear of humans. The bears here have much more contact with humans and they still feel they are the top of the food chain as such. What these people want is no people hiking camping hunting(of anything) or using the "not so wilderness" areas. Most live in large towns and cities(out of state) and have very little reason to want to visit the out of doors. Part of the allure of living here is the fact you can go into areas where you hardly ever see a human and do get to see nature in it's almost original form. Personally I like seeing the wild animals in the area. Kinda neat to be able to sneak up on a moose to about 10-15 ft.. Happened to walk up on a Big kitty deer hunting one day,,,at that same 10 ft or so. Spooked me a good bit too. Where I hunt elk I see a bear 6 out of 10 times. If you happen to shoot a critter(deer elk or moose) the percentages go even higher. They want what you have too. Easier to catch and they have learned we are lower on the food chain....so whatever it may be belongs to them. I don't know about the "cubs" that were referenced here...but some cubs stay with momma for as much as 2 years or so I have been told..How old were they? When the cubs leave their mother they are usually chased off by another male looking to make some new cubs. The way of nature. I can ell you for a fact...if what happened in the encounter to end up with a dead grizzly will be investigated thoroughly. As far as bear spray...it can work but then again ...it may not. Mosty people that are attacked by bears will get chewed on even if they have a handgun. My best iea of a bear gun is an 8 or 9 shot shotgun with slugs...not buckshot...slugs. So when it comes to this article ...read it not as news but as political speak. Yep even here in Wyoming we have what some call the drive by media...or fake news. I can tell you..I do not want a bear encounter of any kind. I do think that I should be able to hunt hike ride or whatever up in the mountains without big brother ort sister looking over my shoulder...or dictating that I must carry bear spray and defend myself with it Daummm I hope the wind is blowing away from ME

It's always refreshing to read something from someone who knows of what he speaks. I resided in the general area of this incident but that was over 35 years ago. Jackson was a great town, devoid of California type transplants.
Grizzly Bears weren't unheard of but the hadn't been in areas that they are now for 50 years or more. When you have more folks out " in the Blue ", you will have more Bear interaction. I felt the article put the incident in a negative light,.... inferring that this poor, defenseless Bear was shot by a heartless hiker. We weren't there. The Game and Fish will find out the circumstances and while I do not like to see critters killed, especially with younins' I would prefer the Humans survived. Just thoughts from a former Wyoming Cowboy.

 

[BigBill]

My 400lb blackbear his mother was shot in a nearby garage by the home owner. I feel bad for him. Luckily there’s plenty of food for him. Everyone has fruit trees.

 

[soFlaNative]

Having had zero experience in grizzly country my take on the article says it's OK to be armed while traveling but keep the bear spray in hand esp. in territory with limited vision.
I'd rather have a handful of dingle bells to fling for distraction while bringing a firearm to bear.
Been through both CO and WY but spent no time in bear country.

 

[vigil617]

My 400lb blackbear his mother was shot in a nearby garage by the home owner. I feel bad for him. Luckily there’s plenty of food for him. Everyone has fruit trees.

Okay, BigBill, I'll bite:

How'd she get in the garage?

And if you say "station wagon," I'm gonna call B.S.

 

[mtgianni]

I see no mention that the sow was lactating which would indicate lost cubs. The fact that they could not be found near the carcass tells me they were second year bears with a 75% chance of surviving unless they meet a dominate male. Dominate males kill all male cubs as that brings a sow into heat sooner resulting in a mating opportunity and secondly they cannot verify the male cub is their genetic offspring so they kill it.

 

[Skeet 028]

I see no mention that the sow was lactating which would indicate lost cubs. The fact that they could not be found near the carcass tells me they were second year bears with a 75% chance of surviving unless they meet a dominate male. Dominate males kill all male cubs as that brings a sow into heat sooner resulting in a mating opportunity and secondly they cannot verify the male cub is their genetic offspring so they kill it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep...All of the above...Thanks for that clarification mtgianni. Probably NEVER see the above in a newspaper article...especially a liberal rag.

 

[vigil617]

I see no mention that the sow was lactating which would indicate lost cubs. The fact that they could not be found near the carcass tells me they were second year bears with a 75% chance of surviving unless they meet a dominate male. Dominate males kill all male cubs as that brings a sow into heat sooner resulting in a mating opportunity and secondly they cannot verify the male cub is their genetic offspring so they kill it.

MT, you're referring to the sow's carcass? (Guess so, since there haven't been any others reported -- as in, the bears were all sharing a meal when the hikers came upon them). Would the cubs have stayed around after the sow was shot, you think? Just askin' -- seems they would high-tail it in fear, but you guys are the griz experts, not me by a long shot. That's interesting about the 2nd year bears aspect, though, and if their survival rate is as high as you say, then maybe this will turn out to have a silver lining. I do have to think, though, that the information about the fact the cubs probably wouldn't survive must have come in part at least from the wildlife folks, so maybe they know a little more about the incident at this point than we've read about.

 

[Watchdog]

Just a statement by someone who lives near and hunts in bear country. Anyone who can read can see the negative slant on the article...but that is the whole point . One...where the story was published..This was an article from Jackson Wy...Used to be called Jackson Hole before the uber liberals from elsewhere moved in. This article was absolutely slanted to the liberal viewpoint.

I can read very well, but I don't see the "negative slant" you're referring to. Matter of fact, taken as a whole, it isn't much of an article/report at all. Seven short paragraphs, only three of which even talk about the shooting. Five sentences, incredibly lacking in detail. It's hard for me to believe that the Jackson Hole Daily actually paid someone to write such a uninformative report.

Jackson Hole is actually the name of the area where the little town of Jackson is located. Jackson has been called Jackson since the 1890s. No uber-anyone moving into the area got the town to change its name.

So when it comes to this article ...read it not as news but as political speak. Yep even here in Wyoming we have what some call the drive by media...or fake news.

I don't see the "political speak" or the "fake news", either. There's no editorializing going on in the article. Fake? The report is horribly vague, but is there anything in it that isn't true? Don't see how it could be "drive by media" either, since it's local news outlets doing the reporting.

The anonymous hikers are probably back home, bragging to their buddies about their brush with death, but their fifteen minutes of fame are up already. Their buddies are probably tired of them talking about it. It's yesterday's news.

 

[Watchdog]

I see no mention that the sow was lactating which would indicate lost cubs.

No surprise there, since the only mention of the sow is in the first sentence of the story.

The latest report I've seen on this is two days old, and it simply repeats the original article.

There's so much lack of detail about this incident, it's simply a pathetic excuse for reporting the news by all media involved, not to mention the apparent total silence about it on the part of Wyoming wildlife "officials".