Is it enough for self-defense: .380 ACP?

[Echo40]

I've seen a lot of threads on the subject of what is or isn't enough for self-defense, complete with a multitude of responses from folks from all different walks of life, but it never really comes to any sort of conclusion, it just goes on until everyone grows weary of it, then it fades away until the next time the subject is raised anew.

So I've been thinking that a poll would be a better way to keep track of the popular/majority opinion on the subject, not to mention one which could actually reach an apparent conclusion.

My idea is to do a weekly poll on the subject, with common self-defense cartridges for semiautomatic pistols, as that seems to be the particular cartridge type which generates the most debate.
However, this first one will be a sort of test to see whether it generates enough interest to merit posting another poll next week. Depending on the results, it might become a monthly poll or this may be the one and only, so please leave a vote and feel free to post comments on your opinion if you'd like to see more polls in the future.

I thought about starting at the bottom with .25 ACP and working my way up, but frankly I think the fact that pretty much nobody produces firearms chambered in .25 ACP anymore speaks volumes about how the general public feels about it's viability as a self-defense cartridge, and to a lesser extent the same goes for .32 ACP, so we're going to start with .380 ACP.

Please note that this isn't a question of whether or not you personally carry the cartridge, but rather if you feel that it is effective enough in the role of self-defense to merit being carried in general.

Please exercise restraint and refrain from arguing with other posters in this thread. This thread isn't intended as a debate for or against the .380 ACP cartridge, everyone has their own opinion and some folks have a bad habit of presuming that their own is better informed than those of others. In this thread, all opinions are welcome and we do not arrogantly presume the aptitude of other posters.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Over 6 years ago I discovered the LCP. I have entertained no thoughts of replacing it.

So yes, I believe it will do the job.

 

[ContinentalOp]

I'm not sure how to answer this one.

I don't have a .380 yet, though I really would like to add a pocket .380 to my collection (LCP and Pico are on my "want-to-check-them-out" list).

It wouldn't be my first choice for a primary carry gun, but I could see it filling that role if I wanted to carry something more discreet than my 642-1. It could also fill the BUG role, but I wouldn't limit it to only that role, either.

So I'm somewhere between the first two choices.

In other words, 42.

 

[Ziggy2525]

I voted yes, but wish there was an “it depends” choice. Depending on your circumstances and individual risks (neighborhood, spouses psycho ex, etc.), a .380 can either be more than enough or not. More so than other choices.

 

[Echo40]

I thought about including a "Situationally/Circumstantially" option, but decided to omit it because it just felt like too much of a noncommittal answer to an otherwise definitive question.

The way I see it is, if you have to come up with reasons to carry it or conditions under which it would be carried, then the answer might as well be "No" since you really only carry it as a compromise, not because you actually trust your life to it.

You might disagree, but to me if you aren't willing to carry it everyday under any given circumstances, then the answer is no, so that's what you should vote.

 

[Cal44]

I bought a P238 Sig recently and will put it on my carry list at some point.

It's adequate, but not ideal.

It will fit in my pocked when wearing pants that can't conceal a J frame.

But I consider myself better armed with a 38 SP+P or 357 Mag J frame than with a little 380.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I voted no.

I can’t fault anyone in their choice of caliber. There are many variables which must be considered. And those variables differ from person to person.

For me, in the area I live, the 380 is not enough in my opinion.

 

[Not Getting Any Younger]

For the past couple of months, "Lucky Gunner" on Youtube, has been doing a series of videos on pocket guns. Starting with .25 acp and working up through the various options, they are finally starting to look at and discuss the .380 acp. I'm looking forward to their next two videos: 'The .380 shootout' (a comparison of various .380 pistols) and '.380 vs .38 Special'.

I voted yes in the survey. .380 isn't my first choice, but I feel it is an okay choice if you can't conceal a larger gun or it that's all you happen to have with you when you need a gun - with proper bullet/loads and adequate practice/training of course.

 

[Mule Packer]

I've done some ballistic tests with the .380 and have found that it is adequate for the primary purpose for which it was designed...that is, up close and personal, i.e. a belly button gun. It's something that will handle the situation when some yoyo confronts you late at night in the super market parking lot and asks for your wallet.

I don't take a .380 when I'm leading the pack string into the back country, but, I will take it concealed in the pocket of my vest when I'm going into town to go to the store, or when Ms. Judy and I are going out to dinner.

To paraphrase Clint Eastwood, "You gotta know your gun's limitations."

 

[sotexas]

For me self defense means in a 1-7 yard range (not including non speaking large animals) and a .380 would be sufficient. Very easy to stay on point with multi round firing.

 

[lrrifleman]

For the vote, I chose good enough for backup. However, ...

I have a Mauser HSc waiting at a shop as I await my purchase permit. After doing some more in depth research, I am beginning to have some second thoughts. In my opinion (no matter how wrong I am) when I attempt to neutralize a threat, I want it in shock and bleeding profusely. The 380 won't do this. I am now finding reports that the Interarms HSc in 380 is having reliability issues when feeding ammo. For a self defense arm, I am now seeing three negatives: failures to feed, less than desired bullet performance, and the European heel magazine release.

Honestly, I would be very content if I lived the rest of my life to never find myself having to use lethal force against someone. However, while I go out of my way to avoid dangerous areas, I can't stop trouble from looking for me. Today we never really know when or how trouble will find us.

I think that I would want something a bit more effective and reliable than a 380 to ensure that I make it home at the end of the day.

 

[chiefbob81]

With most .380's carrying six rounds, if that isn't enough, try aiming.

 

[6518John]

primary purpose for which it was designed...that is, up close and personal, i.e. a belly button gun.

I am imagining one .380 round in the belly button! OUCH! I would bet that would lead the recipient to an immediate interest in which local hospital has the shortest ER waits.

 

[MurphyPr]

The goal of self defense is to stop the threat.

A LEO wants to stop the threat and make an arrest, so he or she wants to drop the bad guy.

I'm not a LEO, so I want to stop the threat by breaking contact with the bad guy. Any caliber weapon can accomplish that, either by convincing the bad guy to run away in order to avoid being shot, or giving me the ability to run away by slowing down the bad guy with a bullet or three.


So, I say yes, the .380 is enough for self-defense.

 

[BB57]

Bullet placement is vital with any handgun cartridge. In that regard the differences between a 9mm Luger and a .380 ACP in a self defense situation is potentially almost non existent.

The "potentially" however carries a few qualifiers. .380 ACP penetration will fall short of the 12" FBI standard with most hollow points, and those hollow point that will achieve or come close to achieving 12" will fail to expand below a very narrow velocity window.

To be fair, the 12" requirement has much more relevance to LEO involved shootings where the aspect angles are much more varied. For instance in an armed citizen self defense shoot, you are not going to be shooting at a fleeing suspect who isn't essentially face to face with you. In that regard the 10" penetration of a 102 gr Golden Saber will be adequate to reach vital blood bearing organs. The 90 gr XTP will reach 12" reliably in a half dozen commercial loads.

On the negative side, the .380 ACP is more sensitive to short barrel velocity loss than the 9mm Luger. For example, I have confidence in the .380 ACP 90 gr XTP's ability to expand with a barrel length of about 3.5" where it can produce 1000 fps. Below that threshold, expansion becomes less reliable.

Unfortunately, many folks like short barrel .380 ACPs with a 2.75" barrel. It takes a lot of load development to get a standard pressure .380 ACP to come close to that (970 fps) in a 2.75" barrel. Unless you are willing to put some work in in and due testing, you are going to get FMJ performance a fair percentage of the time with hollow points.

Worse, many people like sub compact .380 ACP pistols for carry purposes, but they shoot them very infrequently and never get truly proficient with them. Draw, and fire 2 rounds into the 9 ring or better on a B-27 target at 5 yards in 1.5 seconds? Probably not going to happen with an LCP or similar pistol, where it's uncomfortable enough to shoot that the owner won't put 100 rounds a week through it long enough to become proficient and then shoot it regularly enough to maintain proficiency.

In short the .380 ACP pistol is much like a J frame revolver - it's an expert's gun that takes training and practice to master. Without that, it's mostly a noisy deterrent in a self defense shoot - it'll make noise and might scare an assailant off, but it's unlikely to hit (the assaillant at least) when employed by the average person who carries one.

 

[ladder13]

Yes........

 

[loknload]

Yes I believe it does and this is why I carry my LCP.
I carry to get out of a possible bad situation, not something to go to war with.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Carry rotation has a SIG P238 loaded with rounds that performed best in the Ammo Quest .380 tests, and I'm perfectly comfortable with that option in the type of two-legged threat environment I'm ever likely to encounter.

 

[ken158]

I am retired now and don’t look for trouble and in the course of daily travel a G42 feels to be adequate but in certain parts of town, a G19 is a comfort.

 

[huntandfishguy63]

I vote yes. It's not ideal, but very close to it. I carry a LCP, with critical defense ammo. It's very accurate, for its intended purpose.