What is the best gun for Bear Defense?

[jspick]

I have read and been part of several discussions about what is the best gun for self defense against a bear. This is what happened to my son on Thursday. He hunts for a living for a hunting magazine. He was hunting a black bear with his bow. He stalked to within 15 yards of a bear. Shot it. The arrow going from front to back and from right to left quartering away shot. The bear got up, yes it was bedded, grunted and looked back at my son and charged. When the shot was made with the bow my son immediately put his bow down and got his Springfield XDS 45 acp out and ready. Standard procedure for him. This time he used it. He had two shots. The first hit a leg the second at 8 ft. he hit it between the eyes. My son jumped back and the bear landed on his bow, dead. The bear was old and in poor condition. Probably part of the reason for the attack. My son said he barely had time to make the second shot.

The arrow did the job and would have killed the bear left to hemorrhage.

I do not believe the 45 acp as a bear cartridge. I carry a S&W 629. I still will carry the 629. But the 45 acp did the job at 8 ft. The best bear gun is the one that saved your butt.

 

[BC38]

NICE SHOT.
From what I've read their skulls are pretty thick. Good thing the angle wasn't shallow enough for the bullet to glance off the bear's skull.
Did your boy have a spare pair of briefs handy? Most people would need them after that experience

 

[wellthought1]

Smith & Wesson 629 Classic 5" .44 magnum loaded with Hornady 300 grain XTP is what you need!

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I'd clean up that skull and keep it on the desk for a wicked cool trophy. I do note however that the shot was a little to the left however......

 

[jspick]

We discussed the fact the bears head was down when he made the shot. A perpendicular shot to the head. It was very fortunate it all turned out well for my son. I carry a 629 and bought both my sons a 629 to carry while bow hunting and in the back country. But the 629 is a bit more cumbersome and heavier to carry while bow hunting. He is now starting to think differently.

The first thing he said when he called me was "well this is the second time in my life I had to change my shorts".

 

[Oldmandp]

See: HandLoader Magazine #223
In summary:
1- not much time.
2- penetration paramount.
3- too much recoil prevents follow up shots.

Suggestions from Alaskan guide. Been there really!
.357 DA/SA revolver, 3">4" (what his fishing guide daughter carries)
200 gn wide flat nose cast lead bullets. Not hard cast. Loaded to about 900>1000 FPS.
.44 Mag if very practiced with recoil. Same type bullet.

This is 'self defense. NOT hunting!!

See: Beartooth & Cast Performance

 

[llowry61]

Wow, wonder how long it took for the adrenaline to stop pumping after that. One fine shot under pressure!

 

[Rudi]

Lucky for sure. Some states prohibit bow hunters from carrying firearms?

 

[Onomea]

Impressive work by your son. Glad he is okay.

(He sure has one helluva story for his hunting magazine employers. They oughta give the man a raise or, at a minimum, a hefty bonus!)

 

[Watchdog]

What is the best gun for Bear Defense?

Bella knows.

 

[rwt1405]

I have read and been part of several discussions about what is the best gun for self defense against a bear.

The best bear gun is the one that saved your butt.

As your son now knows, the answer is.............

"The gun I had with me, that let me walk away alive Alex"!

Congrats to your son who stayed cool, and did what he needed to stay alive.

Sounds like Dad did a mighty fine job, raising a very good man!

 

[Rosco Shooter]

Any consideration for a .460 Rowland?

 

[BearBio]

Years ago, Forest Service published a study on what was the best gun for bear defense (1978, I think). Their conclusion was only the 458 or 460 has sufficient punch to approach 100% (high 90's) then 375 H & H (low 90's) and lower down from there. Forty-four mag was down in the 75% range (NO PISTOL WAS RECOMMENDED OR AUTHORIZED). I am currently certified by my Federal Agency for defense use of spray and firearms=(Just completed my annual refresher). Minimum use is a heavy 30-06 load==minimum recommended is a 375 H & H. Norma had an "Alaskan Load" that was 220 gr 30-06 with a round nosed heavy steel jacket.

The Danish Sirius dog sled patrols in Greenland can carry pretty much whatever they want; Their choice s a Glock 20 in 10mm (my personal choice, next to my 454). Their rifle is a modified 1917 Enfield in 30-06 with two 200 gr soft points (for musk ox) and two 220 gr FMJ (for polar bear).

Personally, seen over 2 dozen griz, charged once by a black bear (seen 200+). My choice is still spray. However, spray may not work as well on a bear defending itself!

 

[Erich]

Oh good - a bear thread where someone actually provided relevant photos! Thanks for that, jspick!

Couple points that I'm sure most of you know - black bears and brown bears (in all their myriad different subtypes, not to mention polars) are different critters with different MOs and we all want to understand these differences when in their country.

We all know how shot placement and adequate penetration are vital. I'd probably feel best with a deep-mag semiauto .308 (ball) or 12-bore (buck) if charged by a bear. But as to handguns?

I know guys like to carry around those short barreled Ruger Alaskans in .454 Casull, but I also know how difficult they are to control. I don't care how much you practice, you're not getting a lot of follow-up shots with those Casull rounds. Honestly, I'm not sure how much the extra bullet mass and velocity help - I'd think a reasonable-to-shoot 255-gr LSWC .45 Colt at 950 fps would penetrate just fine to "the good stuff" that you need to hit and would be simple enough to empty as fast as any other big-bore gun. But there are still only six rounds on board.

Your son's .45 ACP (ball?) clearly worked fine for him. I'd note that 9x19 ball is a penetrating son-of-a-biscuit, and that it's worked fine in the hands of Alaskan LEOs dealing with griz. (I don't feel like running the search for the new stories, but they're out there.) Personally, I can put a lot of 9mm ball on target in the time that it takes me to empty a big bore revolver. And my semiauto nines reload in a twinkle, too.

It's pretty much never an issue anyway - in the twenty+ years I've been on gun forums, I've found bear threads to be eternally popular but not all that relevant to most folks, and they generally turn silly. Have a great weekend!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

When hunting with a bow it is always comforting to have a buddy along with a shotgun full of slugs lol. While I like the 45 Auto and it's heavy bullets I would be worried about adequate penetration of the shot isn't in the head. I'm not sure what the correct gun would be, I guess that will change with each hunter. (I still go with a buddy and shotgun!)

Obviously he did well since he is alive and the bear isn't. Scary stuff right there!

 

[husker51]

IMHO In handgun calibers, 44 Mag. In rifle calibers, 308 minimum.

 

[jspick]

The load my son used is a 225 gr. hollow point. Not a good load for bear, BUT the bullet went clean through the skull and exited out the throat. At 8 ft. The bullet did go all the way through the skull. But the bears head had to be close perpendicular to have that happen. I think the thing to consider here is the bear was very old, in bad condition and already had a very fatal arrow through it. And it is a black bear and not a heavier built griz.

BearBio. Good to hear from you again.

A 460 Rowland is a very good cart. But it is harder to recover for a second shot. And it is not a common cart. I personally carry a 44 mag. minimum.

I totally agree in having a person with a shotgun with you while archery hunting, but the biggest factor in not getting attacked in griz country is having a person on look out WHILE the elk or deer is being cleaned.

Thanks for all the replies and yes my son was raised in the woods and at a early age was carrying a 357 while hiking the mountains.

 

[Jessie]

I like the size of that hole.
Looks like a third eye

 

[Doug627]

Pat McManus once wrote about this is Outdoor Life. He said the best bear gun was the biggest one you could shoot accurately over your shoulder while running as fast as you can.

 

[snuffy51]

Looks like the hole for a third eye and maybe a little luck and a cool head made things turn out well.