Do recent events alter your perspective?

[BB57]

I believe we need to adopt an Israeli state of mind.

Our public needs to become accustomed to upstanding civil defense operators. What I mean, is widespread open carry of MSRs needs to become mainstream. Nobody in their right mind is going to waste time attacking a crowd when tons of good citizens are also carrying ARs and AKs. It needs to become as common as a woman carrying her purse, or a man his ballcap.

Until this becomes the norm, don’t expect these disasters to stop. Sadly, with our pathetically hoplophobic anti-gun society, this might never happen.

Going to open carry of PDWs is perhaps going a bit too far but...

Israel lives under a threat of terrorism every single day. However, they also see defense against terrorism as everyone's business. Mandatory military service and military personnel carrying PDWs on a daily basis, aside, from elementary school upward, Israelis are taught that the proper response to a terrorist attack is to take out the terrorist(s). It's a response that works, unlike our retreat, barricade and wait for the police to come save us approach.

It's also attitude. Rocket attack on a beach in Haifa? The following day that beach will be packed with Israelis who refuse to let themselves be cowed by an act of terrorism.

 

[Racer X]

I'm more likely to be struck by lightning than shot at by a rifle-wielding terrorist, so I'm comfortable with my J-frame and one reload.

you are more likely to die from the flu.

 

[Donn]

The OP's concern is well founded, to a point. Should the worst happen, will it be accuracy and results thru marksmanship, or thru capacity, aka spray & pray? At least one bad guy last weekend was wearing body armor. Class 2 body armor's available on Ebay, (at least it was, might not be now), and will defeat any handgun round on the shelf a Cabela's. Last, a handgun, any handgun, is at a huge disadvantage against a rifle. If you don't put your man down, and he's able to turn his attention to you, the excrement rain has just begun.

 

[joeintexas]

I was carrying a Shield 45 before these shootings and I'm still carrying it today. 6 rounds HST and I feel adequate. If I ever feel like I'm going to war when I go to Winn-Dixie I do have several 9mm's and 40 s&w's with from 10 to 17 rounds available, haven't felt that need yet. I can't even imagine a gun fight where I would be able to get off 17 rounds without either being shot or hitting my intended target. Just my opinion, everyone has to do what they feel comfortable with, just like the one side that would intervene to save another life and the other side that couldn't give a hoot whether you got shot or not. Truthfully, I doubt any of us know what we would do until actually faced with that situation.

 

[delcrossv]

The OP's concern is well founded, to a point. Should the worst happen, will it be accuracy and results thru marksmanship, or thru capacity, aka spray & pray? At least one bad guy last weekend was wearing body armor. Class 2 body armor's available on Ebay, (at least it was, might not be now), and will defeat any handgun round on the shelf a Cabela's. Last, a handgun, any handgun, is at a huge disadvantage against a rifle. If you don't put your man down, and he's able to turn his attention to you, the excrement rain has just begun.

Nope. You'd need Class IIIA or III for the highest energy handgun rounds-maybe more. CC a 460? Hmm.

See: https://www.justnet.org/pdf/Understanding-Armor-Protection.pdf

and

Body Armor Performance Standards

Interesting video:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvmQneZ9ls0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvmQneZ9ls0[/ame]

 

[LPD256]

And in the Wal Mart case the cretin threw his gun down and his hands up when confronted with harsh language.

I’ve heard one report, not verified that in Dayton someone took away the perps rifle and he then drew a handgun. The other detail from the Chief of Police was that news media were reporting 26 were “wounded” in Dayton. It’s bad enough that the event happened but the Chief reported that of the 26 “injured” a majority were not shot. They were hurt escaping. A small but important detail.

 

[midnighthammer]

I've had my CC license for 10 years and have gotten lazy at times about not carrying. Recent events have inspired me not to be lazy.

A big takeaway for me over the last year is to always carry in church. Wackos have been given permission to hate religious people. In my church building you would basically be cornered if anyone came in through the front doors. Especially the upstairs area. Worship with your bible in one hand and a sword in the other.

I might not engage in a scenario like happened the Wal Mart. Just too hard to say. Would definitely be trying to save everyone I could. All the arm chair commandos that say that's yellow and I might as well not be carrying, well up yours. My first responsibility is to project my little kids. If I did attempt to take out a lunatic I would get my people out and away from me first. Not going to invite returned fire towards them. If I was single or out by myself it might be a different story. You can envision and play out little scenarios in your head all you want, but in the heat of things, who knows.

I was almost carjacked/robbed at a gas station once. It was getting dark and a guy pulled up and blocked the front of the car I was driving while I was filling up. He had a flashlight in one hand and looked like an object in the other. He quickly rounded the front of his SUV and came towards the car and me so I cleared clothing and placed hand on my Glock 27. He bolted at that exact moment. My passengers opened the door and yelled for me to get in the car, he had a gun!
For me my CC is for the most likely stuff like that.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

This morning, my neighbor lady asked me how these mass shootings could happen. I replied, "Because the shooter was the only one with a firearm. Imagine how many lives would've been saved if everyone was armed."

Sidebar - I don't understand how nobody fired back at the El Paso perp. I guess the shock of rifle fire causes folks to flee, hide, whatever, but in Texas I always expected that someone would shoot back. I guess I was wrong.

==================================

I will continue to carry my M649 as a standard daily carry and, occasionally, I will go back to my snubby K frame, adding one more shot. There are times when I know I have to be in a crowd - long story for later - and knowing THAT causes me to carry a higher capacity automatic pistol, adding a few more rounds to the equation, but I still never carry a service sized pistol - way too big for me to tote around.

 

[LCC]

Let's be honest here. Our parents did not need to carry assault rifles, how many from their generation were killed in random mass shootings? We've always had the mentally ill and pissed off in our society, only they were a whole lot less dangerous without a half dozen 30 round mags.

Want to talk about Israel, let's, I've been there, it's an extremely regulated and disciplined culture, where everyone over the age of 18 is mandated to join the Israeli Defense Force. After initial arms, hand to hand combat, and organizational movement training, all citizens will return home with their assault rifles which they will lock up in IDF supplied arms locker. Because they have extremely tight immigration laws, and been fighting their mortal enemies since being established, the Israeli's are an extremely close knit society whose only mortal enemies live outside the walls.

The US society is anything but close knit these days, seems everyone has someone they don't like or hate, be it Mexicans, Blacks, Jews, Liberals, Christians, Muslims, whites, right wingers, hell, folks who part their hair on the wrong side. Now add in immigrants from over 120 countries, many who don't even speak English, and we're going to give everyone assault rifles, including those in inner city ghetto's, and somehow we're going to have less shootings?

About the only thing that would guarantee is we're not going to have an over population problem..

 

[delcrossv]

LCC, I think you underestimate the restraint of the average person. 300 million+ guns in this country and you think adding PDW's is going to make a significant change?

In a word, nope.

Sounds like what I hear every time a state goes to Constitutional Carry: "EEK! They'll be blood in the streets, Wild West etc."
And then a whole lot of nothing happens.

 

[italiansport]

My position on this subject hasn't varied one iota in the years since mass shootings became common. The predictable screams for "more gun control" which of course would only affect responsible gun owners goes on unabated.
Yet the REAL problems are mentally ill on the loose and people wacked out on illegal drugs and until we decide to provide effective control in these areas IMO mass shootings will continue unabated.
I am omitting any reference to gang-related drug/gang shootings like occur on the South Side of Chicago regularly as this is a different issue.
Jim

 

[hoc9sw]

Let's be honest here. Our parents did not need to carry assault rifles, how many from their generation were killed in random mass shootings? We've always had the mentally ill and pissed off in our society, only they were a whole lot less dangerous without a half dozen 30 round mags.
...

When I was a child they still locked the insane and crazy away in state facilities. You didn't have to worry about them, they were locked away. Now they are walking the streets.

 

[midnighthammer]

I'm a little taken back when I hear 2A supporters say civilians don't need "Assault Rifles". Assault rifles are fully automatic and very hard for the average person to acquire and legally own.

As far as "military style" weapons, as the enemy likes to call stuff.. Outlaw them and only the law abiding citizens will be without them. Because last time I checked criminals don't obey laws.

A house divided against itself can't stand.
Give the anti an inch and they will take a mile.

 

[Muss Muggins]

That’s because the government and the courts determined that locking them away infringed upon their constitutional rights. Chew on that a minute . . .

When I was a child they still locked the insane and crazy away in state facilities. You didn't have to worry about them, they were locked away. Now they are walking the streets.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Pretty sure you made a significant reference . . .

I am omitting any reference to gang-related drug/gang shootings like occur on the South Side of Chicago regularly as this is a different issue.
Jim

 

[10ring]

frustrated, loner white kids (at least in the ghetto they only shoot each other), angry from their inability to socially integrate, self-isolated in their rooms, playing video games where the objective is to AK-47 as many of the 'bad guys' as possible, and in their mind, everyone in the society which they feel rejected by is a bad guy...mix that with easy access to assault rifles, and here's what we get.

As an elder in a low threat environment, I quit carrying semi's for a 642 with a CT grip, can hit center at 30 feet fairly well. In front of a target with proper grip and stance. While being shut at by a maniac with an assault rifle? Best I could hope for is a doorway to hide behind, shoot the ******* in the head as he walks by. If I died with all 5 rounds expended, however, at least I had the chance to fight back.

Regarding assault rifles. I'm a vet and former marine law enforcement. This is no longer about the 2nd amendment "if they take those, they'll take this"..this is about families getting massacred by weapons that make it easy to do so...the right to blast targets rapid fire at 100 yards, or the 'need' to have a loaded assault rifle by the bed 'just in case', does not override the right for good Americans to live their lives without getting mowed down at the mall.

Well, putting aside legal issues for the moment and assuming that if we passed a law and enforced it we could actually gather up all the "assault rifles" in America (and we can't):

And assuming we prevented people obtaining such guns by from making them, stealing them or smuggling them into the U.S. (and we can't);

I am not sure we would really be better off when these same crimes are committed by people using other guns, driving their cars through crowds, using pressure cooker bombs, using car bombs, crashing airplanes into buildings, blocking doors and torching buildings, etc.

Bad people bent on killing won't stop because a particular gun isn't legally available. "Banning" such guns would be like putting a band aid on an arterial bleed....you can brag you "did something" but it won't make any difference.

Car Bomb Explosion in Cairo Kills at Least 20 People - WSJ

 

[keith44spl]

Who was it that said,
"It's not illegal to be insane"
before releasing all those inmates from the asylums ???


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[Rustyt1953]

In answer to the OP's query, put me down as a "no".

 

[OLDSTER]

Nope. It's all disgusting, but has no effect on my "gun fun" I blame the media and the way they glamorize the tragedy and report ad nauseam , for the increase in numbers of shootings.

 

[Warren Sear]

It would seem that many of the recent "mass shooting events" may not necessarily be random events, but perhaps planned events made to look like "lone wolf" events.

I know I will regret asking, but who are you saying is planning these events?