Partial 2A Rights Return To Massachusetts

[TTSH]

Our MA gun shops will be allowed to reopen Saturday at noon unless our anti-2A AG lady can get a stay of the Federal judge's order before then.

Unfortunately, the Federal judge allowed this only after setting a requirement that visits be by appointment only and set a limit of four transactions per hour per shop... not enough for the bigger shops and places like Cabela's and Bass Pro to survive.

Massachusetts gun shops must be allowed to reopen amid coronavirus pandemic, federal judge rules - masslive.com

++++++++++

ETA: The court order: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.220544/gov.uscourts.mad.220544.91.0_1.pdf

 

[Fishinfool]

Good news, but I wonder how the Federal Judge came up with the arbitrary number of 4 sales per hour?

In the interest of safe "social distancing", it would make more sense to base a number of people allowed in the store at any one time on the square footage of the gun shop in question.

What about shooting ranges?

Larry

 

[TTSH]

Good news, but I wonder how the Federal Judge came up with the arbitrary number of 4 sales per hour?

In the interest of safe "social distancing", it would make more sense to base a number of people allowed in the store at any one time on the square footage of the gun shop in question.

What about shooting ranges?

Larry

Decision on the shooting ranges was put off. Judge claimed there was not enough information presented for him to make a decision. Next hearing is scheduled for 5/29/2020. It's not clear to me if anything could happen regarding the ranges before then.

The limited number of appointments and transactions per hour came from the state's proposed temporary order (which they clearly didn't want, but were forced to draft anyway). Judge went with it.

 

[Fishinfool]

So I guess the only question now is what gun shop you will be at on 12 pm on Sat?.....

Larry

 

[TTSH]

So I guess the only question now is what gun shop you will be at on 12 pm on Sat?.....

Larry

LOL!!!!!!! Hey, I'm trying to get a job as the appointments guy for some of the shops in my area! Sounds like a good work-from-home gig!

But seriously, the MA shop that has that Model 18 and a certain Sig pistol that I want is one of the busiest shops of all... so I'm on hot standby for the instructions on how to get an appointment.

Stay tuned on that one!

 

[ladder13]

LOL!!!!!!! Hey, I'm trying to get a job as the appointments guy for some of the shops in my area! Sounds like a good work-from-home gig!

But seriously, the MA shop that has that Model 18 and a certain Sig pistol that I want is one of the busiest shops of all... so I'm on hot standby for the instructions on how to get an appointment.

Stay tuned on that one!

What’s their phone number I’ll call for you.

 

[TTSH]

What’s their phone number I’ll call for you.

Many thanks for the very kind offer, but I think I better keep the shop name and number to myself!

 

[coachray]

Our MA gun shops will be allowed to reopen Saturday at noon unless our anti-2A AG lady can get a stay of the Federal judge's order before then.

Unfortunately, the Federal judge allowed this only after setting a requirement that visits be by appointment only and set a limit of four transactions per hour per shop... not enough for the bigger shops and places like Cabela's and Bass Pro to survive.

Massachusetts gun shops must be allowed to reopen amid coronavirus pandemic, federal judge rules - masslive.com

++++++++++

ETA: The court order: https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.220544/gov.uscourts.mad.220544.91.0_1.pdf

That's good news for you, but it's too bad your state isn't more gun friendly. Just keep voting and maybe things will change.

 

[TTSH]

That's good news for you, but it's too bad your state isn't more gun friendly. Just keep voting and maybe things will change.

It's certainly better than just being blown off by the courts as so often happens. But few consider this a really solid win. It's a partial win at best but we'll take what we can get. It's going to help the smaller shops for certain. What it will mean for Cabela's and Bass Pro... both of which have been closed down by the state... remains to be seen. Four transactions per hour isn't much to a large store like that. Exactly what will count as a transaction? Will it be just firearms? Or firearms and ammo? Or something as insignificant as a candy bar? All that remains unanswered for now.

The high volume gun shops are still going to have problems with this order. Four appointments/transactions per hour cannot keep a 4, 5, 6 or more person staff employed.

 

[GaryS]

The whole range thing is a bit confusing. It seems that most of them closed on their own. That said, I know of two clubs, one of which I belong to, that have cancelled meetings and organized shoots only.

Members are still free to shoot at the outdoor range. When I was there earlier this week, there were about 10 people shooting.

 

[ContinentalOp]

Decision on the shooting ranges was put off. Judge claimed there was not enough information presented for him to make a decision.

I'm no legal expert, but I would think the White House and the Department of Homeland Security declaring gun stores and ranges as essential, critical infrastructure businesses that should remain open would be considered sufficient information on which to base a decision.

But what do I know?

 

[TTSH]

I'm no legal expert, but I would think the White House and the Department of Homeland Security declaring gun stores and ranges as essential, critical infrastructure businesses that should remain open would be considered sufficient information on which to base a decision.

But what do I know?

The judge's "not enough information presented about ranges" comment came as a complete surprise to just about everyone. Some were left saying: "What does he want"?

But remember that he is saying he's concerned about social distancing and masks and disinfecting everything, etc. I guess he was personally unfamiliar with gun ranges and how one would stay clear of the virus.

There is a whole list of things he wants done at the shops to avoid spreading the virus (a list provided by the state BTW)... but I guess no one made up a similar list for the ranges.

 

[GaryS]

Thinking about it a bit more, because I have too much time on my hands, I think the order only applied to commercial ranges, not private clubs. A lot of clubs shut down anyway, but on a case by case basis.

The judge's "not enough information presented about ranges" comment came as a complete surprise to just about everyone. Some were left saying: "What does he want"?

But remember that he is saying he's concerned about social distancing and masks and disinfecting everything, etc. I guess he was personally unfamiliar with gun ranges and how one would stay clear of the virus.

There is a whole list of things he wants done at the shops to avoid spreading the virus (a list provided by the state BTW)... but I guess no one made up a similar list for the ranges.

 

[TTSH]

Thinking about it a bit more, because I have too much time on my hands, I think the order only applied to commercial ranges, not private clubs. A lot of clubs shut down anyway, but on a case by case basis.

That part is still confusing even to the best legal minds I'm aware of. Yes, we know the lockout affects all commercial ranges and probably has no legal authority over private ranges. But what about club ranges? Both indoor club ranges and outdoor club ranges? Some are shutdown and others aren't or are just partially shutdown.

It appears to be up to club management and just how far they want to go to push against the Governor's order.

 

[ContinentalOp]

The judge's "not enough information presented about ranges" comment came as a complete surprise to just about everyone. Some were left saying: "What does he want"?

But remember that he is saying he's concerned about social distancing and masks and disinfecting everything, etc. I guess he was personally unfamiliar with gun ranges and how one would stay clear of the virus.

There is a whole list of things he wants done at the shops to avoid spreading the virus (a list provided by the state BTW)... but I guess no one made up a similar list for the ranges.

Again, I'm no expert, but I don't see what makes ranges any different from other businesses, as far as COVID-19 prevention is concerned.

CDC has plenty of resources, including: Businesses and Workplaces | COVID-19 | CDC.

Maybe I'm not overthinking it enough...?

 

[bushmaster1313]

The Judge, the Hon. Douglas Woodlock, was appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1986.

Unfortunately, 2A cases often depend on the Judge who pens the decision.

This makes choosing your battles — and your forum — very important in defending the 2A.

 

[TTSH]

Again, I'm no expert, but I don't see what makes ranges any different from other businesses, as far as COVID-19 prevention is concerned.

CDC has plenty of resources, including: Businesses and Workplaces | COVID-19 | CDC.

Maybe I'm not overthinking it enough...?

Oh, I understand. It is not rocket science. And the judge's decision to delay on the ranges confused a lot of folks. I'm with you on that. But he said what he said... i.e., not enough information presented... and he is the judge.

 

[TTSH]

The Judge, the Hon. Douglas Woodlock, was appointed by Ronald Reagan in 1986.

Unfortunately, 2A cases often depend on the Judge who pens the decision.

This makes choosing your battles — and your forum — very important in defending the 2A.

All indications are that this is a good & fair judge... not an anti-2A activist judge. We were very lucky in that regard. His temporary order could certainly have been better, but it also could have been a whole lot worse.

 

[Old_Cop]

TTSH, you are up early!

 

[TTSH]

TTSH, you are up early!

Actually, this is late for me. The early bird catches the worm ya know.

Back on topic, the rumor is that the state is going to appeal the judge's temporary order that is allowing reopening of our MA gun shops on Saturday. Our nasty anti-2A AG lady does not like to lose these battles. She believes that gun sales should not be allowed and that is that, 2nd Amendment be damned.

Can she do that in time to prevent Saturday's shop reopenings? Stay tuned...