What should I offer for this 1917?

[tominboise]

A local has a 1917 listed. He is asking $700 but it's been listed for a couple of months, so it's not moving at that price. Serial number is 64942. I haven't yet looked at it - it's in a town a couple of hours away, that I will be in next weekend. I have attached the pictures from the ad.

I am an accumulator, not a collector, so am looking for a shooter grade 1917. I have a couple 625's in the safe and am enamored with the 45 ACP revolver and how they handle and shoot.

 

[handejector]

That appears to be a 455 frame that has been rebarreled with a 1917 barrel. The cyl could also be a replacement, or it could be the 455 cyl that has been modified. There is probably not a matching number on the bottom of the barrel or back of the cyl.
I would not put $700 in a parts gun.

 

[tominboise]

Glad I asked - what are the key indicators that this is a 455 frame?

 

[Muley Gil]

Glad I asked - what are the key indicators that this is a 455 frame?

The commercial style serial number and the other butt stamping. A 1917 in that serial number range should be marked "US ARMY MODEL of 1917" and the stamping would be read with the barrel pointed skyward. The SN would also be read thataway.

 

[tominboise]

Very interesting and makes sense, now that I think about the 1917's I've seen, regarding the stamping on the butt. The seller calls it a "Commercial Model 1917 in 45 Autorim".

 

[glowe]

Very few non-military S&Ws had a lanyard loop and that gun does, so it was military, but . . . the butt has a crown over 30, which is the British crown and the "30" is often associated with Canada 455s.

 

[lamarw]

It is not the commercial variation since the small S&W emblem would be on the left side of the frame. There appears to be an emblem on the right side, but I can not see it clearly. Could it be a Brazilian Crest?

Below are pictures of my two commercial variations.

 

[glowe]

It is not the commercial variation since the small S&W emblem would be on the left side of the frame. There appears to be an emblem on the right side, but I can not see it clearly. Could it be a Brazilian Crest?

Below are pictures of my two commercial variations.

All three of my 455s have the S&W logo on the right side, just like the OPs. Remember that the OP's gun is actually a 455, not a 1917. I find it odd that your guns are commercial, since they have military stocks and lanyard loop? All non-commercials that I have seen did not have a lanyard loop and had medallion stocks?? Did you get yours lettered, because I am certainly interested in knowing that there are other styles out there?

 

[tominboise]

This would be a triple lock, correct? Do we have any idea when it was produced, given the serial number? Given that it's a parts gun, what would be a ballpark price for something like this? Are there any concerns about shooting 45 ACP out of it?

 

[bulletslap]

In my non-expert opinion if in good mechanical condition as a shooter I would be a buyer around 500-550 dollars. A couple of years back I purchased a nickel refinished M1917 for 385 dollars and i was very lucky.

 

[glowe]

This would be a triple lock, correct? . . .

No, not a Triple Lock S&W. Those had a extractor rod shroud forged the full length of the rod and beyond on the underside of the barrel, while yours only has a lug. The proper name for your revolver would be designated by the frame, so it would be properly known as a 455 Hand Ejector, 2nd Model and some add that it was a Mark II. Made from 1915 to 1917 from serial number 5,001 to 74,755. The 1st Model from 1 to 5,000 were the TLs.

 

[StrawHat]

...I find it odd that your guns are commercial, since they have military stocks and lanyard loop? All non-commercials that I have seen did not have a lanyard loop and had medallion stocks?? Did you get yours lettered, because I am certainly interested in knowing that there are other styles out there?...

Gary,

I have a couple of 1917 Commercial Models. Both have the lanyard loop. Both have the small S&W crest on the left side. Neither came with original stocks so I can not comment on those.

I also have a Model 1950 Military. 45 ACP, never used by the military here or anywhere. Large crest on the sideplate and no lanyard stud, nor drilled for it. Aftermarket stocks so no help there.

Kevin

 

[glowe]

Kevin, were they lettered or just lacking military stampings? I read somewhere how many civilian guns were made, but cannot put my hands on that number right now.

 

[2152hq]

Looks like a Canadian property 'C/Broadarrow' stamped on the barrel ring left side and also under the thumb piece.
You have to enlarge the left side pic to see them and then they are faint.
Those marks would jive with the Crown/30 on the butt often seen on the Canadian accepted pieces.

As to what it's worth, I don't know anymore. Things have gone crazy.
It's a decent looking gun for sure but if its a made up w/parts gun/shooter,,that's most likely why it's still sitting there IMO.

 

[gmborkovic]

Hello tom in Idaho, depending on what you want. Shooter, collector or project? I like a correct shooter right of the box. Price is steep.

 

[lamarw]

Yes, both of mine are correct for the Commercial Variation. Both of mine have the matching serial numbers written in pencil on the inside of the right stock.

An internet search reveals a "Gun Digest" note by Mr. Corey Graff stating there were 1,200 Commercial Variations produced. He states his information comes from the "Standard Catalog of Firearms".

I have not lettered either of my two, but I do have a copy of a S&W Historical Foundation Letter for Serial Number 181560 which was shipped from the factory on July 5, 1930.

 

[Hondo44]

This would be a triple lock, correct? Do we have any idea when it was produced, given the serial number? Given that it's a parts gun, what would be a ballpark price for something like this? Are there any concerns about shooting 45 ACP out of it?

Not unless you saw three locks on it and since it doesn't have a barrel shroud, it cannot have the correct barrel or a working middle lock.

Plus it has a divot in the left side recoil shield for the cyl ctr pin, so the frame can't be a triple lock frame either.

If the cyl does not have a serial # on the rear face, it's an original 455 cyl that has been shaved for 45 ACP. Therefore it is not heat treated for the ~19,000 pressure of the ACP. It's only good for the 14,000 of the 455 and 45 Auto Rim.

It's a 455 2nd Model much like the 44 2nd Model and the 1917s except for the cartridge chamberings. Triple locks are 44 1st Models.

#64942 is late production near the end of 1917.

It's a "mixmaster" gun that I wouldn't pay over $500 if I wanted it, but I wouldn't. It's over priced.

 

[Hondo44]

No, not a Triple Lock S&W. Those had a extractor rod shroud forged the full length of the rod and beyond on the underside of the barrel, while yours only has a lug. The proper name for your revolver would be designated by the frame, so it would be properly known as a 455 Hand Ejector, 2nd Model and some add that it was a Mark II. Made from 1915 to 1917 from serial number 5,001 to 74,755. The 1st Model from 1 to 5,000 were the TLs.

Gary,

I'm pretty sure you meant 5801 to 74755 and 1 to 5800.

 

[tominboise]

Hello tom in Idaho, depending on what you want. Shooter, collector or project? I like a correct shooter right of the box. Price is steep.

I am looking for a shooter. This looks like a project to me and at the listed price, more than I am interested in spending.

 

[tominboise]

Not unless you saw three locks on it and since it doesn't have a barrel shroud, it cannot have the correct barrel or a working middle lock.

Plus it has a divot in the left side recoil shield for the cyl ctr pin, so the frame can't be a triple lock frame either.

If the cyl does not have a serial # on the rear face, it's an original 455 cyl that has been shaved for 45 ACP. Therefore it is not heat treated for the ~19,000 pressure of the ACP. It's only good for the 14,000 of the 455 and 45 Auto Rim.

It's a 455 2nd Model much like the 44 2nd Model and the 1917s except for the cartridge chamberings. Triple locks are 44 1st Models.

I should have realized it wasn't a triple lock based on the barrel shroud - my bad. I am new to the older S&W's and the variations of them. I haven't looked at the gun in person yet - just the photos posted here - as it's a couple of hours away from me.

I am interested in a shooter, so will likely pass on this one if the cylinder is not the correct heat treat for 45 ACP.