Powder dispenser deviation between charges

[DWalt]

Both my digital and beam scales have a precision of 0.1 grains. Actually, with my Redding beam scale I could estimate precision to within 0.05 grains, but there is no point in doing that for reloading purposes. As I earlier said, to determine the average weight of handgun charges thrown by my powder measure, I throw and weigh an aggregate of five charges (but usually 2 or 3 charges for heavier rifle loads).

If anyone needs a balance having a precision greater than 0.1 grain, he'd need to use a chemical lab analytical balance. They will easily achieve a precision of 1 milligram or better. Some are capable of 0.1 milligram (0.0001 gram) precision. (1 gram=15.4 grains so 1 milligram=.015 grains)

 

[Jwjarrett]

I got some CFE Pistol today and tested a few throws. This powder measures much more consistently 8.3 occasionally, but must were 8.4. I didn't take the time to adjust from my Longshot volume settings. Just for grins, I tried throws with a full hopper and a 1/4 hopper. It didn't make a noticable difference.

This new guy is beginning to learn more about powder shapes and size and its affect on charges.

 

[stamper]

S

One last bon mot: Reloading is a situation where the Law of Diminishing Returns comes into play quite often and quickly.

Probably the best thing said in this entire thread. If you're not shooting for competition purposes but tend to be a bit anal (like most reloaders are), there is an awful lot of Much Ado About Nothing.

 

[Troystat]

Unless you are trying to hit a max load I would not worry about it. For a pistol cartridge you are not going to get a big difference in accuracy with a variation like you talked about. If you want to get good with a pistol practice your dry firing and shoot more everything else is not going to make a big difference. Some of the other posters are right, the choice of powder does seem to affect the consistency of the amount dropped from a powder measure. Good luck and happy shooting.

 

[Jwjarrett]

Yes, I tend to be anal about little things like this, until I'm satisfied in my own mind. Then I am good with multiple throws with occasional checks. I am good with a .1 deviation. I am glad to learn more about what can affect this - powder types, amount of powder in hopper, throwing technique, etc. All good information.

I also tend to consult multiple sources -- books, forums, personal experiences, etc.. This forum seems to have a wealth of seasoned experience and I appreciate that.

In practice, no, none of this will have much effect on my shooting. Most of what I do is paper punching for fun, SD loads for EDC and home defense. My shooting skills are plenty sufficient for that. Mainly, I want to put a few more wrinkles of this brain and have some fun doing it.

 

[tenntex32]

Here is what I normally do for my "uber" accurate handloads.

I have an RCBS powder dispenser/baffle with micrometer adjustment added.

I set up my most trusted beam scale for the exact charge weight I desire.

I set up my RCBS powder dispenser to throw just a few tenths under the desired charge weight.

I then throw a charge then weigh it on the beam scale, then top off to an exact charge with a powder trickler.

I have yet to see a digital scale that will show 1/100th a grain's weight. (Not sayin they aren't out there.) Heck most will fluctuate even at 1/10th a grain's weight.

Differences in air pressure/breathing/minute vibrations will show on many digital scales even at 1/10th grain. And then even without environmental influences digital scales tend to fluctuate a tenth or two.

There used to be a big argument between the weight versus volume powder throwing camps with regards to accuracy. There are some really nice (volume) powder dispensers out there and will do quite nicely if you find the powders they tend to throw the most uniformly.

As I tend to use numerous different types of powders it is far easier for me to set my dispenser up to throw short and then top off with a trickler using a very reliable beam scale. No batteries or ac power needed, no fluctuations due to digital scales.

I have even taken my RCBS powder dispenser with micrometer adjustment to the range and used it there for several projects. I usually dial it it to the desired powder charge I and then simply load and fire. Probably not what the 1000yd+ guys would recommend but it's rare I get past 300yds any more.

I may still set out a digital scale while using my RCBS dispenser/beam scale/trickler method just to quickly check the occasional charge to verify nothing has gone severely amiss with the beam scale.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Jwjarrett]

Not to start an argument on digital accuracy. I do know about weight standards, certified scales and certified calibration weights. I know about RFI, EFI, airflow, humidity, etc., etc. I know a truly accurate digital scale would cost $$$$

I do want you to know I'm not crazy (anymore than the rest of you lead breathing, heavy metal handling folks ) My digital scale does display to the 1/100 grain and it is showing accuracy at least to the 1/10 grain when compared to my balance.

[DISCLAIMER: This is in no way a recommendation to use a digital scale for load validation. An uncertified digital scale can be used as a reference only. Where precise measurements are required, a certified scale with valid proof of calibration must be used. *Paraphrase of ISO 9001:2015 Quality Standards*

Please take this post tongue-in-cheek

 

[tenntex32]

Not to start an argument on digital accuracy. I do know about weight standards, certified scales and certified calibration weights. I know about RFI, EFI, airflow, humidity, etc., etc. I know a truly accurate digital scale would cost $$$$

I do want you to know I'm not crazy (anymore than the rest of you lead breathing, heavy metal handling folks ) My digital scale does display to the 1/100 grain and it is showing accuracy at least to the 1/10 grain when compared to my balance.

[DISCLAIMER: This is in no way a recommendation to use a digital scale for load validation. An uncertified digital scale can be used as a reference only. Where precise measurements are required, a certified scale with valid proof of calibration must be used. *Paraphrase of ISO 9001:2015 Quality Standards*

Please take this post tongue-in-cheek

Can I have you do me a huge favor?

Measure out a dead nuts 40gr load using your digital scale that measures to 1/100th a grain. Then remove from the digital scale the pan and powder.............then place it back on again 10 times and tell me how much it does or doesn't deviate from the first measurement each time.

Then, if you don't mind, please repeat the process with just a 5gr powder weight.

I am truly curious as to how repeatable such a scale is...............and if it is truly repeatable then what brand is it and what would one cost?

1 grain = 1/7000th of a pound.

You scale is measuring to a degree of 1/700000th of of a pound. Wow, if it is truly repeatable..........and somewhat affordable.

Usually I have to rely on a beam scale to show very minor deviations (above or below) 1/10th a grain accuracy. I've tried several "affordable" digital scales in the past but always went back to a beam for finer accuracy. Maybe things are changing with regards to digital scales?

Thanks in advance,
Dale

 

[Jwjarrett]

Can I have you do me a huge favor?

Measure out a dead nuts 40gr load using your digital scale that measures to 1/100th a grain. Then remove from the digital scale the pan and powder.............then place it back on again 10 times and tell me how much it does or doesn't deviate from the first measurement each time.

Then, if you don't mind, please repeat the process with just a 5gr powder weight.

I am truly curious as to how repeatable such a scale is...............and if it is truly repeatable then what brand is it and what would one cost?

1 grain = 1/7000th of a pound.

You scale is measuring to a degree of 1/700000th of of a pound. Wow, if it is truly repeatable..........and somewhat affordable.

Usually I have to rely on a beam scale to show very minor deviations (above or below) 1/10th a grain accuracy. I've tried several "affordable" digital scales in the past but always went back to a beam for finer accuracy. Maybe things are changing with regards to digital scales?

Thanks in advance,
Dale

I'll give it a try. My guess, from what I have seen to date (I've had this scale for less that 2 weeks), is that it will be consistent to the tenth and vary plus or minus as much as .05.

I'll forewarn you. The results may be delayed. I should have a mailbox full of primed brass when I get home today. That could distract me

 

[tenntex32]

I'll give it a try. My guess, from what I have seen to date (I've had this scale for less that 2 weeks), is that it will be consistent to the tenth and vary plus or minus as much as .05.

I'll forewarn you. The results may be delayed. I should have a mailbox full of primed brass when I get home today. That could distract me

I couldn't think of a better distraction.........short of Kate Upton picking me up for lunch wearing a red dinner dress!

My experience with the few digital (1/10th grain capable) scales I have owned is even after warming up and calibration sometimes they tend to be +/- .1 grain, and sometimes as much as +/- .2gr. My cheapo tends to be just as accurate as the more inexpensive one, go figure......but to be honest I didn't spend a huge amount on the more expensive one.

Please take your time when performing the repeatability test, as I would prefer it to take a while longer and be more accurate, data wise, than to be hurried and less accurate.

If it is truly repeatable to within +/- .05gr then that would be as much as 8 times more accurate than what my digital scales typically give. If not overly expensive then it would be of interest.

What did the paperwork that came with the scale say it's accuracy was in grains? (Assuming it has an accuracy range stated.)

Dale

 

[tenntex32]

Is this your digital scale? MAXUS Dante Milligram Scale 50g (click on blue box below)

[ame="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZQZ962K/ref=sm_n_ma_dka_US_pr_ran?adId=B07ZQZ962K&creativeASIN=B07ZQZ962K&linkId=101b69187a0f1336a0322e61a424db24&tag=hombrefin-20&linkCode=w58&ref-refURL=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.homebrewfinds.com%2F2020%2F08%2Fmaxus-digital-milligram-scale-50-grams-x-001-grams-calibration-weight-lightning-deal.html&slotNum=0&imprToken=a8yiCCtilk5W5Kba67BzUg&adType=smart&adMode=manual&adFormat=card&impressionTimestamp=1600092900465"]Amazon.com: MAXUS Dante Milligram Scale 50g x 0.001g Includes 20g Calibration Weight, Scoop, Powder Pan and Tweezers Read in Grain Gram High Precision Reloading Jewelry Medicine Powder Digital Gram Scales: Industrial & Scientific[/ame]



$22 cost and .02gr resolution/readability.............really!!?!!

Lemme know how that thing truly performs.

 

[BE Mike]

After reading your original post and assuming that you are loading for pistol cartridges, I'll say YOU ARE GOOD TO GO! Quit worrying about things this minute.

 

[gmiller0737]

I never fully trust a Digital Scale & Verify on My RCBS Balance Beam Scale that has never once lied to Me in 35 years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tenntex32]

I am genuinely curious as the comments and reviews with regards to these type scales measuring to +/- .02gr also state that occasionally the scale's zero (tare) will drift as much as a couple of tenths of a grain.....which is exactly the same problem I have with my digital scales that measure in 1/10th grain.

 

[Jwjarrett]

This is the scale. I do want to re-emphasis, this is because of my bifocals and unsteady hands (Too many years as a heavy equipment tech). I STILL will be verifying on the balance. I am impressed with this little cheap digital, though.

[ame="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07X1R442K/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1"]Amazon.com: Digital Milligram Pocket Scale 50 x 0.001g, Mini Jewelry Gold Lab Carat Powder Weigh Scales with Calibration Weights Tweezers, Weighing Pans, LCD Display: Kitchen & Dining[/ame]

 

[Rule3]

The scale will work fine, regardless of the brand they are all made in China. Best ting to get is some check weights to verify either scale is correct. Amazon has them as well.



Lyman Shooter's Weight Check Set

 

[Greenjoytj]

If you powder measure won’t co-operate with your chosen powder, then adjust the powder measure to throw light by two tenths then trickle up to exact weight while the pan is on a scale.

 

[Jwjarrett]

Can I have you do me a huge favor?

Measure out a dead nuts 40gr load using your digital scale that measures to 1/100th a grain. Then remove from the digital scale the pan and powder.............then place it back on again 10 times and tell me how much it does or doesn't deviate from the first measurement each time.

Then, if you don't mind, please repeat the process with just a 5gr powder weight.

I am truly curious as to how repeatable such a scale is...............and if it is truly repeatable then what brand is it and what would one cost?

1 grain = 1/7000th of a pound.

You scale is measuring to a degree of 1/700000th of of a pound. Wow, if it is truly repeatable..........and somewhat affordable.

Usually I have to rely on a beam scale to show very minor deviations (above or below) 1/10th a grain accuracy. I've tried several "affordable" digital scales in the past but always went back to a beam for finer accuracy. Maybe things are changing with regards to digital scales?

Thanks in advance,
Dale

TennTx32, I didn't forget. I got it done today. Getting a 40 gr and 5gr sample required putting a cover over the scale. Breathing even affected the reading.

On the 40 gr test, it averaged 40.025 with top at 40.06 and bottom at 40.00.

The 5.00 test averaged 4.96 with high 5.00 and low 4.95. I was in the process of doing a second sample when I tipped my pan and had to start over. Second test averaged 5.00 with high at 5.03 and low at 4.97.

Photos attached. Pardon the foot and bullet holes

 

[tenntex32]

TennTx32, I didn't forget. I got it done today. Getting a 40 gr and 5gr sample required putting a cover over the scale. Breathing even affected the reading.

On the 40 gr test, it averaged 40.025 with top at 40.06 and bottom at 40.00.

The 5.00 test averaged 4.96 with high 5.00 and low 4.95. I was in the process of doing a second sample when I tipped my pan and had to start over. Second test averaged 5.00 with high at 5.03 and low at 4.97.

Photos attached. Pardon the foot and bullet holes

Thanks for the update Jw.

Did the zero/tare ever wander requiring you to rezero the scale during the process?

Dale

 

[Jwjarrett]

Thanks for the update Jw.

Did the zero/tare ever wander requiring you to rezero the scale during the process?

Dale

No, the zero never changed. That's consistent with what I have observed every time I use it. This holds true whether it is zeroed with nothing on it or zeroed with something on it brass, a tray, etc.