WWB 9mm question

[Telecaster]

I've read of others experiencing quality issues with Winchester white box bulk ammo, and I've had a round or two of it not work right but it's been a while and I don't recall what issue I had.

So the other day I was shooting WWB and two other brands of FMJ, and some JHP, and of the hundred or so rounds total one WWB round failed to extract from a very clean gun. I'm not too worried about it, but in the back of my mind I wonder if it was really the ammo. What are the chances?

 

[mckenney99]

The bulk of my experience with Winchester White Box ammo has been with the 115gr 9mm. The biggest issue I have run into was it being low powered and at times I would experience failures to extract and failures to go fully into battery in what were otherwise completely reliable pistols. Changing out the ammo I was firing would result in the pistols working properly again. I have experienced none of those issues with Winchesters 124gr NATO spec. White Box ammo.

 

[Telecaster]

It was indeed 115 gr. I didn't hear any less bang, but it's not necessarily audible and I wasn't looking for it.

 

[Univibe]

McKenney99 is right. Winchester Q4318 NATO also comes in a white box, but it's good stuff. I load my home defense carbines with it.

 

[swsig]

I agree with mckenney99 and Univibe that Winchester NATO is excellent ammo. It is close to +P, but is not labelled as such. Its extra velocity compared to standard 9mm ammo increases the accuracy of my Shield 9 by 25%. Regular WWB 115 is much weaker, and may create cycling issues with tight new guns. That said, it's always worked OK for me, but it's nothing special. The big problem these days is finding NATO rounds.

 

[URIT]

I only bought the 115gr WWB until one of my Gen3s had a problem with that ammo.

I brought the gun to a gunsmith, described the problems I was having with the gun, and he asked me what ammo I was using. When I told him WWB 115gr, he said, "through it out."

I didn't chuck the ammo but had problems with it using other pistols. I haven't bought any WWB 115gr since then.

 

[GypsmJim]

I've always considered nines to be a problem. At one time I owned 5 of them, and each one required a different formula and bullet shape to run satisfactorily.

Funny thing is the WWB 115 bulk is the one ammo that worked in all of them. Go figure...

 

[jag312]

I will be happy to take any WWB 9mm 115gr ammunition if anyone wants to get rid of it. I'll give my son and nephew the job of pulling the bullets and reloading the cases with an amount of powder that will make my submachineguns happy. And if anyone is in the Carson City/Minden area, I will let you shoot the guns.

 

[cnette01]

During the last ammo shortage, I purchased some WWB and found a primed, empty case in one of the boxes. No problems with shooting any of it though.

 

[gerhard1]

My only problem with the WWB stuff has been hard primers that are sometimes hard to ignite. I have a couple of revolvers that have had light hammer strikes with WWB but are generally reliable using Federal or Remington.

Other than that, it has been good to go.

 

[mod29]

My Glock 17 loves WWB 115-gr. I've shot several hundred rounds of that stuff with no malfunctions of any kind.
It also loves the Winchester 124-gr NATO ammo, too. Accurate and 100% reliable thus far.

 

[Loyaljeeper]

I worked for a fed agency that bought a lot of WWB 9mm. It was rare to have an issue but the ammo looked corroded and tarnished fresh out of the box. I recall one or two with no primer Or the primer in backwards. There was one round where the case mouth was folded over. There was no way it would have ever chambered. Otherwise, I don't remember any common issues.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

Always had very good luck with Winchester white box ammo. If I didn't reload, I'd buy it again.

 

[stansdds]

I've shot a lot of Winchester white box ammo in 9x19mm, 357 Magnum and 45 ACP. Never had a problem with any of it.

 

[WR Moore]

It's ammo made and sold at a price point. I recall being short of ammo on the way to a (then IPSC) match and grabbed a couple of boxes of WWB 9 mm on route. I don't recall bullet weight, but when chrono'd, they didn't make minor caliber. They gave me minor caliber based upon the fact that it was factory ammo, but the velocity was seriously lacking (IIRC, they didn't make 1000 f/s average). Don't recall malfunctions, but it's definitely a bottom tier ammo choice.

Not all that long afterward, I got a detailed questionaire from WW about what quality changes they needed to make to get LE ammo contracts back. The comment above about appearance of the ammo prompted the memory. Frankly, function and performance is more important than appearance. When you can't stamp case rims to uniform thickness, worrying about shiny cases is idiotic.

This was sometime after my employer banned WW ammo from purchasing contracts.

Every company does the occasional bullet/primer in backwards. You do have to watch out for the occasional wrong caliber round in the box since everyone seems to have gone to one size box fits all.

 

[Green Frog]

OK, I've now more or less completed my Model 639 Franken-Smith in its iteration with iron sighted slide. So far it has been dead on reliable with everything I've put in it, including some WWB, Federal Bulk Box and American Eagle, and even some ChiCom stuff that came from Norinco 20 years or so ago.

My question now is, if I get some WWB or other NATO spec stuff, is it going to be safe as a steady diet for it, assuming reasonably fresh recoil springs? What happens if somebody sneaks in submachine gun spec stuff with other NATO military? Does Winchester even make ammo for the sub guns? Inquiring minds...

Froggie

 

[Nevada Ed]

Over the years I have had a few W-W and R-P rounds that had a problem with them but I can't ever remember ever having a F-C case with a primer inserted wrong or a smashed case from a bullet.

However, when you think of the total volume that these companies are pushing out, it is amazing how few "Oversights" are shipped out of those plants.

What they put out in one day would probably take most of us a life time.

 

[WR Moore]

My question now is, if I get some WWB or other NATO spec stuff, is it going to be safe as a steady diet for it, assuming reasonably fresh recoil springs? What happens if somebody sneaks in submachine gun spec stuff with other NATO military? Does Winchester even make ammo for the sub guns? Inquiring minds...

Froggie

WWB, as commonly referred to, definitely isn't NATO spec. Your primary worry would be more like "Is the bullet going to exit the barrel?".

SFAIK, the REALLY HOT subgun ammo was a very limited production run (Hirtenberger?) some decades ago intended for a German unit. A lot of the claims that subgun ammo was hot loaded had more to do with the differences between how US companies loaded 9 mm and how it was loaded in Europe. The stuff loaded over the pond is generally more muscular (NATO spec), largely due to differences in how pressures are measured and some sandbagging in the US.

If anyone in NATO is still using 9 mm sub guns, they're stuffing them with NATO spec 9 mm. If you're using fresh springs and your Frankengun was originally rated for +P, you're good to go with NATO spec.

 

[Green Frog]

OK, so unless it has a head stamp from one of the ammo makers in the home of my German forebears, it isn't the +P++ stuff. OTOH, any currently produced NATO 9mm will probably rate at about +P if loaded in Europe, somewhat less from the US manufacturers, right?

As for my personal 9mm ammo launcher, I'm going on the assumption that a "stock" 639 is OK for +P, and since anything I have done in my build would probably strengthen but certainly not weaken it, I should be OK with any civilian market ammo and any milsurp I encounter except for the German sub gun rounds we've discussed. Does that seem to be a fair assessment?

Just to avoid being accused of excessive thread drift, I had a bulk packed 100 round box, mostly white but with red and black markings, IIRC, that I got from Wally World before they were overcome with political correctness and it was discontinued. Does that correspond in quality and performance to the "Winchester White Box" being discussed here originally? My 639 ate that up with nary a bobble, probably at the time it was sporting a 439 slide.

Froggie

 

[stansdds]

OK, I've now more or less completed my Model 639 Franken-Smith in its iteration with iron sighted slide. So far it has been dead on reliable with everything I've put in it, including some WWB, Federal Bulk Box and American Eagle, and even some ChiCom stuff that came from Norinco 20 years or so ago.

My question now is, if I get some WWB or other NATO spec stuff, is it going to be safe as a steady diet for it, assuming reasonably fresh recoil springs? What happens if somebody sneaks in submachine gun spec stuff with other NATO military? Does Winchester even make ammo for the sub guns? Inquiring minds...

Froggie

The steel and stainless steel receivers are far more durable than the aluminum receivers and the aluminum receivers are actually pretty stout. WWB 115 and 124 grain loads are not quite to maximum standard pressure, I have found them to be pretty tame. Winchester's NATO loading is about 5% over standard pressure, SAAMI spec for +P is 10% over standard pressure. The steel frame pistols will hold up to many tens of thousands of NATO and +P ammo. With NATO and +P ammo, I would not go more than 4000 rounds between recoil spring replacement.