Marines on Guadalcanal - 1903 Springfields

[VaTom]

Rereading a book from my shelf "Hell in the Pacific". Great book. The 1st and 5th Marines that landed on Guadalcanal in the summer of 1942 were carrying Springfield 1903 bolt action rifles and "one unit" of ammo (book didn't say how many rounds were in "one unit"). While the M1 had been adopted several years before by the US they hadn't reached the pacific at that time. They had just been issued the new helmets a month prior to replace the old WWI style helmets. They did have BARS in the rifle squads. It wasn't until late in the Guadalcanal campaign that the Marines began to see the M1s.

Interesting. Of course the Japanese troops were also using bolt action rifles.

 

[Targets Guy]

IIRC they went to the Army first.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

The ParaMarines had Johnson Rifles.
And the Reising Submachine Gun was standard issue.
The Johnsons apparently functioned well, the Reisings were so disliked that after most of the Guadalcanal fighting they were thrown in a river.
In This Marine Raiders picture, the Raider in front has a Springfield.
The tall guy , left side of first standing row looks like Gordon Warner, who I met in Okinawa.
He may be holding a Reising.
Gordon was a Company Commander.
I hope that's not his entire Company!

 

[VaTom]

Looked up "one unit of fire" for 1903 Springfield for Marines. 100 rounds in model 1923 cartridge belt. 2 five round stripper clips in each of 10 pockets. Supposed to be enough for one day of heavy combat.

 

[PALADIN85020]

My understanding is that after the Marines saw the capabilities of the Army M1s, they "midnight requisitioned" a lot of them from the Army...

John

 

[max]

If you watch the series "The Pacific" on the History Channel, a lot of Springfields show up.

 

[AJ]

My understanding is that after the Marines saw the capabilities of the Army M1s, they "midnight requisitioned" a lot of them from the Army...

John

Give the man a cigar!! He is absolutely correct. Part of the problem was the Marines wanted to stay with their beloved '03's. However, once they realized the capabilities of the Garand, they changed their minds. When the Army came ashore on the Canal and as the man said "Midnight Requistioning" came into play. Had a Step-Father that was there in the 1st Division, he said the same thing.

 

[jdlii]

I could be wrong but, it looks as though two of the marines in that photograph are holding Garands. The second one from the left and the one on the extreme right.

 

[AJ]

I could be wrong but, it looks as though two of the marines in that photograph are holding Garands. The second one from the left and the one on the extreme right.

Looks like that to me also. The date of the picture would help a lot.

UPDATE: See my Post #21.

 

[mikerjf]

It's been a long time since I researched this kind of stuff, but I associate that kind of camo with the Tarawa landing.

This page has some uniform details.

First Offensive: The Marine Campaign for Guadalcanal (The Landing and August Battles)

Most of the pix I can find from the 'Canal show non-camo uniforms.

 

[max]

In "The Pacific" when the Army arrives, the Marines "appropriate" a number of things from the Army camp. Garands are among the appropriated equipment.

 

[Jessie]

The ParaMarines had Johnson Rifles.
And the Reising Submachine Gun was standard issue.
The Johnsons apparently functioned well, the Reisings were so disliked that after most of the Guadalcanal fighting they were thrown in a river.
In This Marine Raiders picture, the Raider in front has a Springfield.
The tall guy , left side of first standing row looks like Gordon Warner, who I met in Okinawa.
He may be holding a Reising.
Gordon was a Company Commander.
I hope that's not his entire Company!

Looks like a tuff bunch

 

[Trooper224]

If you watch the series "The Pacific" on the History Channel, a lot of Springfields show up.

The wrong Springfields, 1903A3s, which weren't in use at the time.

 

[m75rlg]

I've read that there was some differing opinions in the U.S. military about the wisdom of equipping regular troops with semi automatic and automatic firearms prior to WWII. Waste of ammunition, degrading the accuracy of fire, type issues. (I understand that the Marine leadership was skeptical of the troop level use of semi auto battle rifles early in the war.)

I believe that the combat effectivness of rapid fire quickly became apparent as officers and troops experienced their use in combat.

 

[Jack Flash]

I could be wrong but, it looks as though two of the marines in that photograph are holding Garands. The second one from the left and the one on the extreme right.

I don't think you're wrong.

Also, I see two M1 Carbines.

 

[Heinz]

My understanding is that after the Marines saw the capabilities of the Army M1s, they "midnight requisitioned" a lot of them from the Army...

John

My father was on an LCT in the Solomon Islands. The LCTs delivered cargo from the freighters to the beach. He said the LCT crews often redirected M-1s to the USMC. For all the grief sailors give marines, they like them a lot better than soldiers.

 

[tndrfttom]

The book "SHOTS FIRED IN ANGER, A rifleman's-eye view the activities on the Island of Guadalcanal, in the Solomons …" by Lt. Col. John George gives pretty detailed coverage of the small arms used by U.S. and Japanese forces. George was in the Illinois National Guard and had been a competitive rifleman before the war and so he had a soft spot in his heart for the M1903 Springfield. Before shipping out he had been instructed to "Grab a couple of good '03 rifles and hang on to 'em … Find two with star-gauged barrels if possible."

The Marines efforts to latch on to M1s after the Army had come ashore on Guadalcanal is mentioned a couple of times either by 'moonlight requisition' or by trading souvenirs with any supply sergeant with an M1 to spare.

The book is pretty interesting and I believe has been reprinted. It can be found for less than $10 on ebay and secondhand book sellers.

 

[biku324]

I believe the 164th Infantry Regiment, Federalized North Dakota National Guard troops, arrived on Guadacanal October 12th to augment Marines; that's when Garands also started to arrive bulk as Army resupply, much of which made it's way to Marines who badly needed the arms. I was honored to be a friend of Donald N. Jones, Marine Raider, who landed with the first Raiders in August.

 

[jpage]

I have heard on more than one occasion, that the Marines of that era manipulated their Springfield bolts with thumb and forefinger, using their little-finger to work the trigger. Evidently this produced impressive rates of fire from a platoon or company.

 

[Muley Gil]

The wrong Springfields, 1903A3s, which weren't in use at the time.

I saw that too. What I didn't see was BARs.