For new Handloaders; Organize it or Lose it

[oddshooter]

Handloading is an awesome hobby. When loading one caliber with one bullet and one powder, it can be simple. It can also be quite complex with all the different calibers, powders, bullets, and recipes.

Add to that the variability of each firearm and the complexity only multiplies. You really can't build one cartridge that is the best for each and every gun. Only testing will prove which ammo is best for which gun.

To produce excellent rounds, I need to know group size, velocity, and effect on firearm from the handloads I shoot.
I even need inventory location to find my individual cartridges. Spread sheets are used to hold all data. There's a lot of it.

I group my Excel spreadsheet by caliber.
I group my cartridge storage by caliber.

Example for 357 magnum Library Inventory:
I use 5 powder weights for each lot(min to max),12 to 24 rounds each weight group
I use 6 bullets with different shapes and weights,
I use 7 powders.

So that's 5 X 6 X 7 = 210 different cartridge weight groups with 12 to 24 rounds in each group. Over 2,000 rounds total.
Building, shooting and scoring the 210 recipes for one gun, took over a year.
I use plastic storage containers from Harbor Freight or Home Depot to keep about 20 weight groups separate. I have a bunch of containers at this point.

I have what I call a Reference Gun for each caliber. I use it as a starting point for handloads testing. I know the best round for that gun and how it shoots.
Later, I use the dimensions of the Reference Gun compared to a second firearm's dimensions to select good candidates to pull from the Library Inventory.
I have a lot of 357's. With my organization, I can find Best for each hawgleg fairly quick.

Then there is the weird dimensions firearms (SW 25-5) that require custom bullets and builds. More data.


I could not do it without the Excel spreadsheet. It gives me landscape columns with boxes for data entry. There is way too much data to remember. Look at what the above produced and imagine it multiplied by 100 with other calibers and firearms.

Data, that can be retrieved when needed, is required to move forward.

Handloading is FUN! when not frustrating. KEEP organized.


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Copy of spreadsheet coming.

 

[rockquarry]

Different ways of doing things, but maybe they all work...

I've been keeping spiral notebooks for range data for about thirty years. Wish I had done this during the first twenty-five years of handloading. Two or three times a year, I transfer a summation of the the notes to a card file where all cartridges are listed. None of this is any more time-consuming than using a computer.

I don't know exactly what Excel is, but sounds like it works well. However, my system works when the power is out.

Handload long enough and do a lot of load development and shooting, and you'll often find one load that works very well from an accuracy perspective in multiple firearms chambered for the same cartridge.

 

[iouri]

In current reality not many will drop 2000 primers into load development

 

[H Richard]

I've been loading long enough (around 40 years), that I know what powders seem to work for me in different calibers. I keep a log sheet for each caliber, and document the loads along with the group results. Once I select the best load I usually stick with it. It is all kept in a 3 ring binder with all my shelf of loading manuals.

 

[rockquarry]

In current reality not many will drop 2000 primers into load development

For a variety of cartridges, yes. For load development with one cartridge, probably not.

Since 1965, I've found load development to be most intriguing and rewarding part of handloading. I've been very fortunate that I have not had to alter or slow down my work because of the current situation.

As for powders, after working with many of them over decades, you get a get a strong feel for what will work well and what won't and your predictions will almost always be right or very close to right. After a while, you can easily get by fine with just the powders that work well consistently. Rifle or handgun cartridges, it doesn't matter.

Bullets, however, can't really be compared with powders. Bullets usually lack the versatility of powders and it's hard to impossible to make accuracy predictions without working with them. A testament to this fact lies with the number of rifles I have that have been rebarreled. However, I only have one that has been rebarreled twice and I bought it new about ten years ago.

Primers are certainly a changeable factor that will often provide different accuracy results. However, if you'll work up the load with the primer rather than just switching primers in an already accurate load, you might find what you consider a lesser primer will provide the same accuracy level as the "best" primer.

 

[Sevens]

I've been keeping spiral notebooks for range data for about thirty years. Wish I had done this during the first twenty-five years of handloading. Two or three times a year, I transfer a summation of the the notes to a card file where all cartridges are listed. None of this is any more time-consuming than using a computer.

I don't know exactly what Excel is, but sounds like it works well. However, my system works when the power is out. .

This simply isn’t being intellectually honest. Hand writing and then even re-writing by hand is absolutely more time consuming for even the worst typists. And being able to save backups and block - copy - paste and send to others when needed is also something you can’t do with a spiral notebook.

Lose the notebook or spill water on it and your life’s work is gone. Multiple backups of an Excel file can be dropped anywhere... gun safe, cloud, phone...

Using electricity as the humdinger reason why your method has something the computers don’t have kind of suggests that you also are prepared to load by candlelight. Maybe not a great idea, at least when handling the powder.

Look, there’s nothing wrong whatsoever with the old school and old style. But arguing that 1960’s technology for handloading experience and archives is just as good as what we are doing with computers isn’t being honest.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Many years ago I standardized my loads or various guns. I know them from memory and that what I load.

 

[rockquarry]

This simply isn’t being intellectually honest. Hand writing and then even re-writing by hand is absolutely more time consuming for even the worst typists. And being able to save backups and block - copy - paste and send to others when needed is also something you can’t do with a spiral notebook.

Lose the notebook or spill water on it and your life’s work is gone. Multiple backups of an Excel file can be dropped anywhere... gun safe, cloud, phone...

Using electricity as the humdinger reason why your method has something the computers don’t have kind of suggests that you also are prepared to load by candlelight. Maybe not a great idea, at least when handling the powder.

Look, there’s nothing wrong whatsoever with the old school and old style. But arguing that 1960’s technology for handloading experience and archives is just as good as what we are doing with computers isn’t being honest.

Works very well for the intellectually dishonest.

 

[oddshooter]

I used both a spiral notebook and a 3 ring binder of notes for awhile.
But the results were less than satisfactory because of my scribbles and lack of consistency.

The computer forced me to enter data in the correct location and use a standard list of values that I could read.
A blank sheet and pencil was just too much flexibility for me to collect data I could assemble with other data.

Without a Form, I'm pretty lost in trying to be consistent.

The computer also allow me to stage my data collection.

First Stage Plan:
Plan by enter static data - like date, brass use #, primer, bullet, powder
Enter variable data - powder/weight, velocity estimates,

Second Stage:
Print spreadsheet to Capture data: group size,velocity, up/down, left/right,
Comments on primer reading, case reading, cylinder, barrel, recoil, dirt

Third Stage:
Enter all shooting data.
Analyze data then use borders and color to highlight critical findings.

This process forces me to be consistent from start to finish. I struggled for years without it.

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[mikld]

This simply isn’t being intellectually honest. Hand writing and then even re-writing by hand is absolutely more time consuming for even the worst typists. And being able to save backups and block - copy - paste and send to others when needed is also something you can’t do with a spiral notebook.

Lose the notebook or spill water on it and your life’s work is gone. Multiple backups of an Excel file can be dropped anywhere... gun safe, cloud, phone...

Using electricity as the humdinger reason why your method has something the computers don’t have kind of suggests that you also are prepared to load by candlelight. Maybe not a great idea, at least when handling the powder.

Look, there’s nothing wrong whatsoever with the old school and old style. But arguing that 1960’s technology for handloading experience and archives is just as good as what we are doing with computers isn’t being honest.

Ah, the arrogance of youth. "My way is new so it's better, right?". For the first 12-14 years of my reloading I kept a hand written log of every load I assembled (yes, I used paper and a ball point pen!). I did not think my method was equal to chiseling a stone tablet and I could very easily find any load I needed. Later I transferred to my computer the load data, just a plain document, no spreadsheet. Using either method I can find loads for my 38 Specials I assembled in 1995-2000. Honest!

 

[SS336]

Holy smoke! I thought I was OCD, you gentleman are too organized.
I can’t imagine wanting to know what I was reloading in the 70’s. Lot has changed, all though I have to admit I still use Unique more than any other powder in my pistol cartridges.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Carbon-based life forms on this, the 3rd planet from the Sun, typically(?) operate on a bell-shaped curve: this apparently also applies to reloading...

Some develop a load with a bullet and a powder that works for them. Others develop various and sundry loads for different bullets and different powders accumulating data en masse.

Hopefully, using a pen and paper and in a binder, I can locate and identify the data for every bullet I have loaded since I began. For me, this is sufficient for my uses and needs. While I have a few tried & true (dare I say?) "recipes" for the various calibers I still find it enjoyable to try out a new powder or a new bullet. Or both?

I most surely appreciate the efforts some take to more (most?) fully document and measure their loading activities and bullet performance. I may well be on that "other side of the bell-shaped curve"?

Cheers!

P.S. Although clearly my most loved hobby (this would include both reloading and the actual shooting!) I can't consider it as my life's work. If my binder was lost I would just continue what I normally do before beginning the actual reloading activity, which to me is measuring the powder, seating, crimping and measuring the final product: research the caliber, bullet and powder based upon my previous experience and a review of the best reloading data available to me. That is most often derived from multiple sources, powder company, bullet manufacturer's data, load manuals, etc.

 

[mikerjf]

LOL, great discussion!

Not sure I would depend on memory for load recipes, but if it works for him I'll just duck when he's shooting, no biggie.

OTOH, as someone who has written 10's of thousands of lines of assembly and C code, using a computer is like breathing for me.

I use Excel for a short list of my "standard loads", but my actual day-to-day reloading activity is logged to text files that require no special software to interface to. I have a variety of self-written flexible utilities that let me answer almost any question I could possible think of - for example, "How many ounces of Unique *should* be left in the can, based on how many of what loads I've loaded from it?" No sweat, 30 seconds and I know.

Reloading is a fun hobby, but so is computer programming and data analysis... at least, for some of us.

(To be fair, I ban computers from some other hobbies, like guitar playing...)

 

[SMSgt]

I'm now quite convinced reloading did not exist before the invention of Excel spreadsheets. I've lost more data due to computer crashes than I ever did to water spills. Lots more.

 

[4barrel]

I use one of my thick Lyman reload manuals and put a red dot beside pet loads. They have lots of room to add newer powder. Some of my better loads<pistol>are actual targets stuck on the wall.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

The proof...

I use one of my thick Lyman reload manuals and put a red dot beside pet loads. They have lots of room to add newer powder. Some of my better loads<pistol>are actual targets stuck on the wall.

The proof is in the pudding...?

Cheers!

 

[Sevens]

Haha “the arrogance of youth.” I’m not sure if you are referring to me now or me 32 years ago when I began handloading or the first 10 years where I did the same sillyness and logged my tireless work on paper with a pencil.

It’s fantastic to have this discussion on an internet forum. I suggest the dinosaurs that want to reply get out their quill and ink, write their reply on cotton and tie it to the leg of a carrier pigeon and send it off to Handejector in hopes that he adds your reply to this discussion.

Hopefully, if the power isn’t out.

For anyone in the cheap seats, I’ll reiterate that -ANY- method you use that works for YOU is the perfect method and as a free American, I back your use of that method 100%. When you stumble in to a discussion and try to tell me that your 1960 technology method is every bit as good as what the first world populace is using (while you type in to an internet forum to sell your bridge) then I’ll be the guy telling you that you’re being dishonest to the discussion.

I recognize this attitude, the same guys in the only local gun store that sneered at me over the counter in 1989 when I was 17 and asking for small pistol primers gave it to me every time I asked them a question about handloading. Guns Galore, Fenton Michigan. Most of those guys have passed on now. They may have stunted my growth at the load bench but I succeeded anyway.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

In the summer of '69, I was 18, just barely alive...
Went to the corner store, where ammo they did sell.
Bought those 22's for a dollar, I remember, Oh! so well...

Before, the dem-panic brought us down!

(With apologies to B. Dylan)

 

[Nevada Ed]

Since I started back in the 60's.........
I have load manuals and paper binders that are so old that I hate to use them, unless it really needed but they do have tested powder data that is not listed in the newer books.

The computer has made things a lot easier but when my Windows 7 died and I went to windows 10 my spread sheets did not always print out or read per line height etc, as the old system.

I have target, standard, +P and "Other loads" for my weapons that is my basic data but I also have 2-4 other loads that are accurate or shoot at POA, that I keep listed with different powders, just in case.

Do I need 4 powders for one style bullet........... maybe not.
Plus I could probably do without the chron's FPS data........
but I had the mix, so I made the cake.

Good shooting.

 

[oddshooter]

LOL, great discussion!

Not sure I would depend on memory for load recipes, but if it works for him I'll just duck when he's shooting, no biggie.

OTOH, as someone who has written 10's of thousands of lines of assembly and C code, using a computer is like breathing for me.

I use Excel for a short list of my "standard loads", but my actual day-to-day reloading activity is logged to text files that require no special software to interface to. I have a variety of self-written flexible utilities that let me answer almost any question I could possible think of - for example, "How many ounces of Unique *should* be left in the can, based on how many of what loads I've loaded from it?" No sweat, 30 seconds and I know.

Reloading is a fun hobby, but so is computer programming and data analysis... at least, for some of us.

(To be fair, I ban computers from some other hobbies, like guitar playing...)

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I may be guilty of drifting my own thread, but pardner, we may have a lot in common.

I put the first computer into the Los Angeles County/ University of Southern California Hospital in 1968 at the age of 19.
In the 70's, I was part of the birth of object oriented programming with PARC and IBM/Microsoft. We wrote ours in C to start, even creating our own message handler and classes. Polymorphism was my forte, creating context for classes.
I founded a software company in 1984 that I just sold last year to Prem Watsa.

I love playing guitar and old tube amps; acoustic, electric, slide..... However, the inventory is in Excel.

I'm just as Obsessive about all my interests. I want to swallow everything there is to know about a topic. I'm a better musicologist that a player.

Handloading is not producing massive numbers of rounds for me. I think the most I've ever made was under a 100.
My Handloading is testing and studying. I love it. Just ONE powder with 5 weights and 6 bullets produces 30 different loads.
I have dozens of powders and many more 357 bullets. Like all of you, I only select the ones that are good candidates.


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