Not Ready For Prime Time... Walther P 22

[THE PILGRIM]

Have also had good experiences with my PPKs. Have mostly shot different CCI ammo.
My only negative with it is the HEAVY double action Trigger Pull.
As I have posted, a while back I traded for a Beretta 70s.
Was surprised how much I like it!

 

[Echo40]

Is the .22 pistol discussed here the one S&W came out with about twenty or so years ago that was supposed to be some sort of collaboration with Walther?

No, Walther collaborated with Smith & Wesson on a few pistols during their partnership, but the P22 is not among them and the design predates said partnership.

There was the SW99, a variation of the P99 with a few aesthetic changes and some tweaks to the design, and it was an excellent pistol which became the basis of the M&P Series along with elements of the Sigma Series.

Other than that, Walther collaborated with Smith & Wesson on the M&P22, which was merely a .22 rimfire replica of the M&P produced under license by Walther.
It is also said that Smith & Wesson was involved in the creation of the Walther PK380, which is essentially a beefed up P22 chambered in .380 ACP, but aside from importing it into the United States until 2012 when Walther opened their own factory stateside, no actual connection between Walther, S&W, and the PK380 is officially available.

 

[rockquarry]

Have also had good experiences with my PPKs. Have mostly shot different CCI ammo.
My only negative with it is the HEAVY double action Trigger Pull.
As I have posted, a while back I traded for a Beretta 70s.
Was surprised how much I like it!

I bought a PPK/S .22 more than twenty years ago. I shoot mostly CCI SV in it and it functions well with that. I don't recall how heavy the double-action pull is in comparison with other guns. I fire mine single-action only.

At 25 yards, I don't shoot this pistol well and I think that's almost entirely due to my lack of skill with this gun. For me, the Walther .22 is considerably harder to shoot well at 25 yards than a PPK/S .380 (of which I've had several) and J-frame snub nose .38s, all with cast bullets.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Any gun you're firing single action only is obviously not the gun you plan on using for self defense.

And whatever your ability, or lack thereof, at 25 yards has nothing to do with self defense, either.

Self defense involves the threat of immediate bodily harm or death. That is generally up close and personal, face to face, mano a mano, 3 yards/9 feet, maybe, and MAYBE 7 yards/21 feet, maybe 10 yards/30 feet. Anyone 75 feet away is a very minimal threat unless he has a rifle and then you're in serious trouble at lots longer distances.

 

[oysterer]

Any gun you're firing single action only is obviously not the gun you plan on using for self defense.

And whatever your ability, or lack thereof, at 25 yards has nothing to do with self defense, either.

Self defense involves the threat of immediate bodily harm or death. That is generally up close and personal, face to face, mano a mano, 3 yards/9 feet, maybe, and MAYBE 7 yards/21 feet, maybe 10 yards/30 feet. Anyone 75 feet away is a very minimal threat unless he has a rifle and then you're in serious trouble at lots longer distances.

Totally right, plus once you pull a firearm in self defense you increase the level of urgency infinitely. Doing that with a 22 and one that may not feed is an altogether bad idea. The only time you consider a 22 is when you have no other alternative available to you. But you don't choose it before hand. I also agree with Joda here. Race trigger collectables like tricked out 1911s or other range toys do not belong in a self defense situation either and single action isn't as a good an option as a well oiled P226 DA/SA or 229 or whatever else has minimal things that can go wrong in a hurry.

 

[rockquarry]

Any gun you're firing single action only is obviously not the gun you plan on using for self defense.

And whatever your ability, or lack thereof, at 25 yards has nothing to do with self defense, either.

Self defense involves the threat of immediate bodily harm or death. That is generally up close and personal, face to face, mano a mano, 3 yards/9 feet, maybe, and MAYBE 7 yards/21 feet, maybe 10 yards/30 feet. Anyone 75 feet away is a very minimal threat unless he has a rifle and then you're in serious trouble at lots longer distances.

Pardon me. I didn't realize this was another self-defense thread. I usually shoot paper targets as a sport for enjoyment and to increase my shooting skill. I'm not much of a gunfighter.

However, and you may be unaware of this, if you'll learn to shoot well at distance, 25 yards (or even farther), you will also become more proficient at closer distances.

 

[oysterer]

If you'll learn to shoot well at distance, 25 yards (or even farther), you will also become more proficient at closer distances.

The 2 are not related in any way. Up close and SD is about draw, speed and follow up, nothing to do at 25, 50 or more yards.

 

[rockquarry]

The 2 are not related in any way. Up close and SD is about draw, speed and follow up, nothing to do at 25, 50 or more yards.

Again, there is more to shooting than gunfighting techniques and I didn't realize this was a gunfighting thread. I though it was about Walther / S&W .22 pistols. I never mentioned draw, speed, and follow up, only shooting skill with regard to targets at 25 yards. However, I think you'll find that if you learn to shoot well at distance, your closeup skills will improve, regardless of the type shooting you do.

 

[TXBryan]

As someone who once carried a Walther PPK/S-22 for just under a year when I first started carrying a pistol for self-defense, I can tell you from experience that when folks advise against carrying a .22 rimfire pistol for self-defense, they aren't all just being caliber-snobs who insist that anything under 9mm is insufficient for the task.
Unfortunately, rimfire pistols are just plain finnicky because they're chambered in a rimmed rifle cartridge with an outside the case lubricated bullet and the very way that their primers are seated inside the case makes them distinctively unreliable.

My Walther PPK/S-22 feeds 40gr CCI Mini Mag FMJs with 100% reliability, but other brands or types of bullets have given me trouble, particularly Remington Golden Bullet, which I've had not only failures to fire and failures to eject will, but I've also had one stick in the chamber.

So yeah, I strongly suggest that you either upgrade to a centerfire cartridge of some kind, or at least switch to a revolver since that will eliminate the issue of ammo cycling which is present in so many .22LR pistols.

Otherwise, just keep experimenting with different types of ammo until you find one that your P22 likes, and stick with round-nose solid bullets.

I bought a Walther P22 for my teenage son about two years ago and it has proved to be very selective about what kind of ammo it "likes" and it does not "love" any. Pretty frustrating despite keeping it extremely clean and properly lubed. I have a Taurus TX22 that far, far outclasses the Walther in both reliability and accuracy.

 

[AJ]

I had one of the first P22's sold in this area. It was so new to the market that it took us a bit to figure out how to drop the magazine. "Us" was myself and the Sheriff's Department Armorer. It had the usual problems for break in and was also troubled by bad magazines. About a year or so after I bought it, was able to request two replacement magazines from Walther. It shot well enough. Then one day the shop got in an old Walther PP in .22 and I bought it. The P22 was sold shortly after that.

 

[Pisgah]

.22 semiauto pistols tend to be sort of a special case. I've owned Ruger Mark 1's, a Buckmark, a couple of different S&W models, a Walther, a High Standard -- and not a one was reliable with every load I put in it, at least at first. Generally, I'll try several different loads in a new .22, find the one that works reliably and hits where it's pointed, then stock up on that and call it good. Often after X-hundred rounds a picky one will start shooting everything just fine. If not, no big deal as long as it'll digest one or two loads.

 

[RV4driver]

I cut 1/4" off the recoil spring of my wife's P22 and it's been completely reliable since. She shoots mainly CCI HV and Stingers, but it cycles all the others too.

 

[MTC(SS)Ret]

For some unknown reason, I have a sense of deja vu.
Larry

For some unknown reason, I have a sense of deja vu.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

This thread started this way:

Well, I finally made it to the range with my new Walther P 22 and it's not ready to be used as a carry gun.

How is it NOT a self defense thread when the OP is discussing a carry gun?

Pardon me. I didn't realize this was another self-defense thread. I usually shoot paper targets as a sport for enjoyment and to increase my shooting skill. I'm not much of a gunfighter.

However, and you may be unaware of this, if you'll learn to shoot well at distance, 25 yards (or even farther), you will also become more proficient at closer distances.

Most of us here are not gunfighters. But most of us here are prepared to fight with a gun. Big difference. This isn't Tombstone in 1881.

Being proficient at 25 yards making myself more proficient at closer distances is elemental range fun. I reckon I'm good at it. But I never leave the range without practicing my point and shoot skills because expertise at any distance aimed doesn't beat fast point shooting for self defense - and since we started off with carry guns in mind that's where it took me - self defense. YMMV. Nothing personal here.

 

[Puller]

Ruger SR22 is one of the best of that category of pistol. Had one since they first came out. Not ammo picky. Totally reliable. I researched other similar brands before I bought it and the Ruger got the best reviews for not being ammo picky. Great pistol.

^^ I agree ^^

I own a Walther P22 and a Ruger SR22, like sized and very similar guns indeed.

I find the Walther P22 to be very ammo picky. Even after at least 1K rounds through it, it requires high velocity ammo such as CCI Mini Mags or Stingers for it to run reliably. No amount of 'break in' has helped. With appropriate ammo, though, it is plenty accurate and fun to shoot.

Conversely, the Ruger SR22 is not the least bit ammo sensitive. In fact, it is well known for it's ability to operate reliably with most .22LR ammo and mine as demonstrated the ability to do so right out of the box. I also find it to be quite accurate.

Just as a footnote, the Ruger also functions very well suppressed; the Walther is so ammo sensitive to begin with that when you add a suppressor to the mix it does not function well at all.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Great comparison Puller!
Those two guns do look a lot alike!
You got me thinking Ruger SR22.

 

[kwh]

Bought a new early model Ruger SR 22 years ago. After several hundred rounds with out a single malfunction, suddenly developed FTE's 1 to 3 per magazine, usually the 2nd through 5th round. Changes in ammo and a new recoil spring did not help. Sent it to Ruger factory. Frame was replaced. No charge. Now feeds anything, even cheap ammo, after thousands of rounds.
Send Walther back under warranty.

 

[pistolpete10]

The 2 are not related in any way. Up close and SD is about draw, speed and follow up, nothing to do at 25, 50 or more yards.

Right! Self defense has NOTHING to do with hitting the target.
Firing accurately has everything to do with self defense. Best to learn to hit your target, then work on speed.

 

[AJ]

The .22 LR is not really my idea of a self-defense firearm. That said, all firearms are capable of being used in a self-defense role. I have numerous .22 LR pistols and a couple of .22 LR revolvers. Also have two .22 Mag handguns. Any could be used in a defensive role. I like the one pictured below since we are discussing .22 LR pieces. It is a Sig Saur P220 in .22 LR. A bit big for concealment however.

 

[seldon14]

The P22 is not a good gun. If you have a reliable one, it is an anomaly.