The Hollywood flip - put to the test.

[Absalom]

My question is does anyone have a wrist strong enough to apply roughly 30,000 psi to the steel to a vintage S&W? If not, chances are that nothing will happen. ......

Why not? Not sure, but maybe out of respect to those who abhor the practice. Technically, there should be no issues with doing so, but due to the fact that parts can break for any reason, why give someone another excuse to complain about your practice?

It's not even the strength of the wrist, as you're not applying direct force to the part. All you apply is the force generated by the centrifugal forces of your wrist rotation moving the mass of the cylinder, a fraction of the power with which you could slam the cylinder shut directly with a hand push.

Your second point is a good guide for one's behavior in public. Why risk unnecessary aggravation? Every hobby has its superstitions. In Germany you won't be invited on a hunt again if you step over a dead animal afterwards. Why? Who knows; tradition ...

On the other hand, questioning and discussing the sense and in this case the nonsense of a widespread belief in a forum designed for that purpose, as our friend sigp220.45 has done here, is always a worthy endeavor.

 

[walkinghorse]

Wasn't yesterday the longest day (most daylight) of the year?
So now we are heading into darkness!
Oh the horror!

 

[handejector]

No change. Still works great, locks up tight as ever. Back to TV duty.

Flipping one closed rarely damages the yoke.
It can batter the ratchet and the frame recess for the ratchet, particularly on the N frames with the heavier 35 cal cylinders.
I don't recommend doing it.
Why slam a precision machine around? It does no good and risks harm.
Here's the damage I speak of-

Flipping it open might be a different thing, since the crane doesn't have a cozy frame to slam into.

Flipping one open can definitely bend a yoke. Again, it is worse on the N frames. The cylinders are heavier and the yokes are longer, which applies more leverage.

 

[handejector]

I personally think that it would be hardest on the hole in the recoil shield, then on the center pin and the center hole in ratchet. The yoke to frame coming together has a lot of mass and area to take up the shock. The hole in recoil shield will have its off side struck the same way every time you flip it closed. The center pin and ratchet hole will have the forces spread out 360ᵒ depending on where the cylinder is each time. The tube of the yoke with be loaded a bit by the cylinder with the same directional forces every time also, with the unsupported end by ratchet getting the most. While I don't think that a few times or even 100 times will do much eventually it will add up. The larger and heavier the cylinder the sooner it will be apparent. An N frame 357 probably the worst for this as it would slam the center pin into the latch hole with the most mass.

Take a small 4 oz ball peen hammer and start lightly tapping on something similar to a front sight. Nothing at first, but with enough strikes the top it will slowly mushroom. Keep flipping that little 38 and eventually that hole in the recoil shield will be egged out and the one in the ratchet will enlarge a tiny bit. 500, 1000 flips, 5,000. 10,000 to cause enough to effect accuracy, I don't know, I do know it WILL happen.

Take one and fire a group from a Ransom rest, flip it 100 times, fire it from rest again, repeat. Probably take some time to see anything on the targets. Be an interesting experiment for YOUR gun. Not mine. LOL

I not saying a flip or two is trashes a gun. Hardly. But it will slowly cause un needed damage.

I did not read the thread before replying, so I had not seen this excellent post.

ALL the above is true. I thought about going into it, but figured maybe the burrs raised on the recoil shield would be enough to dissuade even the tough holdouts.
I have seen all the damage you describe.
It can also batter the locking bolt and the forward end of the ejector rod.

I CAN guarantee one thing positively, absolutely, irrefutably, without any doubt or room for discussion whatsoever here-
flip one of my guns and you'll either get the lecture (if I figure you're teachable), or you'll never get your paws on one of my guns again while I breathe.

 

[gmborkovic]

Well, heres one thing I like to do. Back my 63 split window out of the garage. Plant my foot on the skinny pedal and pop the pedal on the far left.
OH! the smoke , and how cool. Then slam the stick straight back. No harm!

 

[sigp220.45]

I hadn't considered damage other than a sprung yoke, since that's what the horror stories dwell on.

But....... no damage here either. A little normal wear after 90 years, though.

Looks ok, too:

Maybe after a couple hundred more flips something will show.

For the record, I am not advocating flipping guns, because people go nuts over it and its rude.

I am saying a single flip (or maybe 100) will not spell the end of your gun.

Now, to find some .22 rimfires to dry fire.

 

[Chuck24]

I’ll be the dummy that asks, what’s a TV gun?

 

[murphydog]

I’ll be the dummy that asks, what’s a TV gun?

Think about a '40s to '50s detective movie, guy in a trench coat and fedora going out of his office. Just before he does a snubnose revolver is pulled out of a desk drawer - and of course he checks it is loaded. Then (wait for it, wait for it)...the spinning of the cylinder and the quick wrist flick to the right to close the action.

It seems the really good films of this genre went away with the widespread use of semi-automatic pistols. The press check is just not that dramatic.

 

[stansdds]

I'm just here to look at the pictures.
Don't look at me like that, at least I'm honest about it.


Personally, I don't Hollywood revolvers. Will doing it a few times damage it? Probably not. Would doing it every time you reload it or clean it damage it? It likely is a case of multiple impacts slowly displacing metal, the damage is cumulative and eventually becomes noticeable.

 

[Waveski]

I just reread post #1 of this fun thread --- Next comes the open flip?
Man , that's gotta be even worse than the close flip - all that steel in motion slamming to impacting small load bearing surface.

Keep on slammin' OP.
YOUR guns , not mine.

 

[steelslaver]

I thin maybe this thread partially came into being because a relatively new member posted worried about damage to his new S&W 500 because someone flipped it shut and he was worried about damage,

''I guess I need some reassuring words that nothing was excessively worn with this occurrence"
:Someone hollywooded the cylinder on my new 4" 500!

I don't think anybody here even the OP who used an older well worn revolver for this TEST, is advocating or even condoning flipping cylinders open or closed. He decided to get get some real time data. Even though his revolver suffered no damage that was immediately visible he did not advocate using this practice.

They don't load cars up with test dummies and crash them into walls because they think it is a good idea to crash cars into walls.

 

[Laketime]

I honestly don’t get what you are trying to accomplish with your experiment. Some newbie might just read the first few post here and start flipping his like a tv gumshoe. What’s the next test .dry firing vintage 22 revolver.

 

[TIMETRIPPER]

Methinks the OP is auditioning for a movie role. Practice makes perfect!

John

 

[waffles]

I honestly don’t get what you are trying to accomplish with your experiment. Some newbie might just read the first few post here and start flipping his like a tv gumshoe. What’s the next test .dry firing vintage 22 revolver.

That's not the message of the thread, and I'd take the risk of it being taken that way to perhaps soften this kind of stuff (from the other thread).

Maybe he deserved a Hollyweird pistol whipping with a REAL handgun.

I would have give him the Wyatt Earp slap up side the head with the barrel................................M*

I think you should mechanically agitate
his head with the barrel.

And in my younger, tougher days that person may have gotten an *** kicking. That's the reason very few people have handled my guns.

He's showing, while stating that it's not a great idea to do it long term, that your friend doing it once out of ignorance may not be as big a deal as a lot of people here seem to treat it as.

 

[65Whelen]

I'm surprised no one brought this up, maybe i missed it, but i always thought the flip damage would be caused to the Cylinder stop and the cylinder notches. Thus, interfering with lock-up and timing.

 

[RevolverJim]

Possible damage to the center pin and center pin hole in the recoil shield.

 

[Birdhunter6]

is like slamming shut a side by side double without holding the lever over. It is just bad form. Bad form!

EXACTLY!

That's why the break action shotguns I hunt with are NOT the same ones I place in the hands of students.

 

[steelslaver]

Flipping one closed rarely damages the yoke.
It can batter the ratchet and the frame recess for the ratchet, particularly on the N frames with the heavier 35 cal cylinders.
I don't recommend doing it.
Why slam a precision machine around? It does no good and risks harm.
Here's the damage I speak of-

Flipping one open can definitely bend a yoke. Again, it is worse on the N frames. The cylinders are heavier and the yokes are longer, which applies more leverage.

I would bet that the reason the ledge on the recoil shield on that one is battered so badly is because either the speed of the flip is fast enough or the center pin spring is to weak to over come the bolt in time to have enough lock up to stop the cylinder where it should and when it goes by the side of the ratchet is slamming into the ledge.

When you think about it the rounded tip of the center pin has to press the bolt back far enough to fully engage very rapidly when flipped.
This involves center pin and it's little spring over coming the bolt and thumb piece mass and the little spring that press them forward in a small fraction of a second.

One more reason NOT to flip. If your reloading in a gun fight you are forgiven for slamming it shut. But only then.

 

[Teddydog]

I also think different revolvers have different probability of damage.

I jumped on the guy at the gun shop who flipped closed the cylinder in my Model 37 that they were transferring. Alloy gun--much higher probability of damage I would think.

And I think lower quality guns would also be more prone to damage. My uncle's High Standard Sentinel ABSOLUTELY was damaged by him flipping the cylinder in and out as a youth. Timing and lockup were both affected to the point that the gun didn't work correctly any more.

So don't to it to any of MY guns, please. Not once, not a hundred times. Thanks.

Rob

 

[Absalom]

Use causes wear.

Harder use causes more wear.

Whoop-de-doo.

Lee’s photos and all the increasingly detailed dissertations as to exactly which little part suffers most don’t prove anything more either. Lee also didn’t provide the data on how many times he flipped that gun in his photos closed to get that damage

If you slam the cylinder shut, as you might during realistic combat reloading practice, you will get more wear damage over time than if you gently close the gun every time, at the range or in front of your safe.

The same applies to the flip. It’s silly, unnecessary, and does undoubtedly apply more wear and risk damage over time if you keep doing it.

But the OP’s little experiment has provided some data points that indicate that, when somebody does it once, virtue signaling and righteous posturing on this issue may be a bit overblown.