Worth two likes, if I could give them. Beautiful wood adds immeasurably to a firearm, whether handgun or long gun.
Gunner's is cool, too, bless his old heart.
Gunner's is cool, too, bless his old heart.
Modern 'popular' h/g's that DON'T interest you?
- Thread starter VictorLouis
- Start date
I'm curious about some people disliking (in nice terms!) the Kimber. I do not own one so I will not argue, but many people either hate or love the Kimbers. I am trying to buy a decent 1911 in that price range. I believe Dan Wessons are another in that range, and I think S&W has a line of them too. What is it about Kimber that is a problem? Also, would you suggest another brand within $300 +/- that's more reliable? I appreciate help before I blow my money!!
Worth two likes, if I could give them. Beautiful wood adds immeasurably to a firearm, whether handgun or long gun.
Gunner's is cool, too, bless his old heart.
WHAT HE SAID !!!!
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Not interested in any Glock, pocket autos of less than .380 caliber, revolvers with locks, AR/AK type "pistols" or that Standard Arms double-barrel oddity.
Not saying any of the above are useless, evil or cause tooth decay, just that I'm not interested. As I recall, that was the question.
Not saying any of the above are useless, evil or cause tooth decay, just that I'm not interested. As I recall, that was the question.
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Why not buy the Kimber? Some people like/hate anything you can think of. All that should matter to you is if you are pleased. 18DAI knows his way around handguns, I'm sure, but your wants/needs are likely different than his. It's a big world. Room for all kinds of crazy ideas! 
I have a TLE II I bought when that model came out, quite a while ago now. It's been a good gun. I like it just fine. I may take it on a courtesy call, if I get down to North Carolina some time.
I have a TLE II I bought when that model came out, quite a while ago now. It's been a good gun. I like it just fine. I may take it on a courtesy call, if I get down to North Carolina some time. 
I has three bad Kimber experiences - TLE II/Stainless Pro/Stainless Target II - and I had to deal with Kimbers "customer service rep" "Dennis". None of them ran - with any ammo/mags. And the Pros barrel rusted unless coated in CLP. Two went back to Yonkers and still were single shot 45s. Never again. That was in the 90s.
Dan Wesson makes a fine pistol, for not much more $. YMMV and probably should. Regards 18DAI
Dan Wesson makes a fine pistol, for not much more $. YMMV and probably should. Regards 18DAI
Puller
Member
I have. Some of you are really missing out.
I've seen "bad" Kimbers, Colts, Springfields, S&Ws, Les Baers, you name it. Don't know what the odds are with any given manufacturer. I will say I do hear a lot of unfavorable CS comments directed at Kimber. I could give a few directed at Colt, based on my own experiences, and I've had a few "circle back around" ones with S&W, one of which I just got bored with and plain gave up on. 
They either decided they weren't going to fix it or they didn't know how.
You spend your money and you take your chances!
They either decided they weren't going to fix it or they didn't know how. You spend your money and you take your chances!
hkcavalier
US Veteran
I can't get excited about the Taurus revolvers. I know they make a few concepts that S&W refuses to touch, but when I hold them in my hand there's just no pizzazz.
I own Glocks because they work and there's loads of parts/mags/etc. I could have easily fallen into a different platform. I now have 4 firearms that take Glock mags and 2 that are actual factory Glocks. I love 'em like a commuter loves his Toyota Prius. It gets the job done.
I can't seem to love the smallbore auto craze. The 5.7s, the .22 Magnums, the .22TCM. Sure the recoil is low, but they're loud and flashy. All three do way better from a 12"+ barrel.
The SIG P320 standard frame (the M17) is slippery right in the places I don't want it to be slippery. I don't get it. I'll probably still get one just to practice now that I can actually buy 9mm. But I need another wondernine like I need a hole in my head.
I own Glocks because they work and there's loads of parts/mags/etc. I could have easily fallen into a different platform. I now have 4 firearms that take Glock mags and 2 that are actual factory Glocks. I love 'em like a commuter loves his Toyota Prius. It gets the job done.
I can't seem to love the smallbore auto craze. The 5.7s, the .22 Magnums, the .22TCM. Sure the recoil is low, but they're loud and flashy. All three do way better from a 12"+ barrel.
The SIG P320 standard frame (the M17) is slippery right in the places I don't want it to be slippery. I don't get it. I'll probably still get one just to practice now that I can actually buy 9mm. But I need another wondernine like I need a hole in my head.
Rpg
Member
I have no interest whatsoever in X frame revolvers and their cartridges.
I hold the NAA revolvers in low esteem.
I hold the NAA revolvers in low esteem.
This kinda makes me wish I had never given my son my ATI 1911. I'm sure at the time I spent less than $400 for the gun, the full sized one, whatever that was. That gun is/was a helluva nice shooter for what it is: cheap and accurate. I put new stocks on it and it looked really nice. A $20 upgrade! And, the bonus, if you save your brass, all you need is a hoodie, as the shells ejected right down the back of my neck! Seriously, it hit dead on an 8" paper plate at 25 yards. For me, that's darn good. Biggest problem was if I had hollow points in it, the initial rack needed to be done
with authority or they may or may not chamber. So, instead of a pretty Kimber Rapide Black Ice or Dan Wesson or Colt whatever, I need to really study hard on this next 1911 purchase.
with authority or they may or may not chamber. So, instead of a pretty Kimber Rapide Black Ice or Dan Wesson or Colt whatever, I need to really study hard on this next 1911 purchase.
LVSteve
Member
The only handguns I've never fired that definitely don't interest me are the AR/AK pistols. Stick a proper butt on there, pay your tax stamp and SBR the darned thing. Anything else, I'll try at least once.
Actually, I clicked "like" but it's a half like. Or 2/3s like. I totally agree on the "useless little flapper doodle thingy on the trigger". Can't abide them. Love revolvers, too. If I didn't own a Walther CCP I'd agree on the striker fired thing, too, but that Walther is excellent even if it is polymer and striker fired because it doesn't have that useless little flapper doodle thingy on the trigger.
But I find single action pistols to be a total waste of my time. That's my 1/3 that I don't "like". But, if you want a real MEH in that realm it is the SIG Sauer P238 and SIG Sauer P938 and anything that Kimber makes that is similar.
MEH.
FEH.
BLECH
UGH
Okay, now I feel better.
The discussion of striker fired pistols as if they are an innovation made me remember one pistol in my modest collection. It is, purportedly, the first successful slide operated pistol, the FN Model of 1900. I've read that it is the pistol for which J.M.B. developed the 7.65 Browning cartridge later known as the .32acp.
The greatest firearm designer of all time, in his first great semi-auto pistol, used a striker. I wonder if old John B. would have considered polymer if it had been available at that point in history?
I just glad that ice cream is made in both chocolate and vanilla!
The greatest firearm designer of all time, in his first great semi-auto pistol, used a striker. I wonder if old John B. would have considered polymer if it had been available at that point in history?
I just glad that ice cream is made in both chocolate and vanilla!
Gun and car preferences are much the same. My '67 Vette is a classic. Beautiful lines and the L-79 V-8 thru the sidepipes sounds like a car's supposed to sound. However, like them or not, the new generations of Vettes are better cars in every way. Compared to them, mine's the Flintstone Mobile. Along the same lines, I learned to shoot pistol with a 1911, carried one every day in the Army, and was my go-to after the service. That said, I don't EDC my 1911 for the same reason the Vette's not my daily driver. My M&P's as dependable as the sun rising in the East and I'm good with it. So, like the Vette that only comes out on cruise nights, my 1911's are strictly range guns. YMMV.
Any 1911 by Springfield Armory.
Wood and steel are "lovely to look at and lovely to hold" but back in the '70's-'90's when I carried a S&W revolver day in and day out, I put nylon Hogue grips on my handgun. They were durable and fit me. That gun wasn't to be admired and put back into the safe. It was a working gun. Today, I put sentimentality aside when choosing a carry gun. Plastic, semi-auto and striker fired rule the day for me, but no "thingy" on the trigger.
Actual objective reasons are hard to find but I think there are several things that feed the irrational hate:
1) Despite being designed by a Colt employee with Colt having the intention to make it standard before WWII intervened, some folks hate the Swartz firing pin safety.
I own Series 70, Series 80 and Swartz safety equipped 1911s and I prefer the grip safety activated Swartz firing pin safety to the trigger activated firing pin safety on the Series 80. Yes you can get a decent trigger pull in a Series 80, but all things being equal you can get a better trigger with the Swartz system.
2) Part of the Swartz hate is the belief that the system is fragile. It is and it isn't. The small stud in the frame is far more tolerant of abuse than the thin lever in the frame on series 80 pistols.
However, the series 80 fragile lever has three saving graces:
- most people don't pull the trigger while putting the slide back on the frame so the lever isn't forcibly raised into the path of the slide;
- that lever *usually* (but not always) falls back into the frame when the trigger isn't being pulled so the lever isn't *usually* whacked when the slide is being re-installed on the frame; and
- when it does protrude above the frame, the lever is much more visually obvious, so even the clueless usually only whack it once before wondering why the slide won't go back on.
In contrast with the Swartz system:
- many people do depress the grip safety while installing the slide on a 1911 as they grip the pistol in their manly mitts and ram the slide back on the frame; and
- when those morons do that, the stud on the Swartz system is less obvious so they often do it several times before they either figure it out or just bash the stud into submission by whacking it hard enough to overcome the greater leverage of the grip safety. Eventually the stud breaks and the safety fails in a fail to fire mode and the morons complain about the system being fragile and unreliable.
They don't of course consider their own ignorance in the chain of events. Over the years I have purchased and still own a Gold Match II, an UltraCarry II, a CDP II and a Pro Carry II. The Gold match has seen upwards of 40,000 rounds (mostly target loads), the Ultra Carry has seen around 20,000 rounds and the others are still, fairly recent with 4 digit round counts, and I have never had a failure of the Swartz system. But then despite being military trained on the 1911, I am not a moron, I read the manual on my first Kimber (the Gold Match), recognized the difference in reassembly procedure and have never abused any of them. YMMV.
3) Kimber 1911s have tight frame to slide fits and require a break in period that can take anywhere from 200-500 rounds before it'll be 100 percent reliable. So,e Kimber haters put a box of ammo through one, have a couple failures to feed and declare it unreliable. If they'd read the manual they'd see Kimber spells out the break in requirement.
4) We also live in an era where guns like the 10/22, AR-15 and the 1911 are treated more or less like adult Legos, where the customer buys a starter set and then customizes it.
The full size Kimbers are no worse in that regard the other full size 1911s except perhaps for the break in requirement. The shooter above who got a couple failures to feed with his first box of ammo, May well be tempted to swap recoil springs and magazines, add a shock buffer etc to "upgrade" it. Unfortunately he will often create a less reliable pistol so that even when it is broken in it's running out of tune.
Many "modern" millennial shooters will do a whole bunch of upgrading before they even shoot the pistol. Don't do that. Leave the pistol alone until you put at least 500 rounds through it and then assess if you need to change anything, and be very objective about whether you really do need to change anything.
It gets worse when the pistol is one of shorter slide Pro or Ultra models. Both have progressively shorter slides and slide over run distances decreasing to almost none for the Ultra models. Adding a shock buffer to one of the, will make them unreliable.
Similarly, changing the recoil spring to a stronger weight spring almost never helps (even on the 5" models). At best there is no free lunch as the stronger spring might reduce the slide to frame impact in recoil, but it will increase the impact on the frame when it comes back into battery - and it's just not designed for that.
Worst case, it reduces slide overrun or over run time and reduces reliability in feeding.
Similarly too light a recoil spring increase slide velocity and rebound and reduces slide over run time, both battering the frame and making it less reliable.
Unless you are shooting something really odd, like light 155 gr plate loads in .45 ACP, leave the friggin spring alone and stay with standard weight springs.
*Do* however change the spring at recommended intervals, which are as low as 800 rounds for the Pro models and 1200 rounds for the Ultra models.
Most modern 1911 shooters in general don't understand 1911 magazine and feed lip design differences. I've posted at length on that before. For the purposes of Kimber hate discussion, just stick with the factory Kimber mag. It's well made and uses hybrid/Colt commercial feed lips that do a good job with FMJ, hollow point, and most reasonable length semi wad cutters.
5) A large percentage - a majority in fact - of the Kimber hate comes from people who have never owned one. Most of them just hear and then repeat negative comments from someone. And of course most of the people they hear negative comments from fall in categories 1-4 above who owned a Kimber but created their own issues and then just blamed the Kimber pistol.
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