It's 2021. I'm curious...

[tops]

A couple of months ago I had a talk with my 6 yr. old great grandson about fantasy and reality. I think there are people out there running loose other than him that need the same talk.
In 80 yrs. and several times being somewhere where I didn't have any business I still haven't had to fire a shot in defense or offense. I still carry a gun but with the life I live now a dull pocket knife is more than I need for defense. Larry

 

[Inusuit]

No shootouts, and I'm grateful. My usual carry is a pocket .380 with no reload, or a single-stack 9mm with a spare mag if I'm traveling.

My good friend was a law enforcement officer in this community for 40 years and drew his duty gun once.

 

[lrrifleman]

@ Packer,

I have been fortunate, I have not been in any form of gunfight.

That said, I am not always comfortable with the concept of being unarmed. In my current home state, the state doesn't issue permits to most people. Fortunately, a few states trust me enough to grant me a non-resident permit.

At home, I have a good grasp on what areas should be avoided. However, after becoming disabled, I do feel like a neon sign is above me identifying me as a willing victim. That is why I sought a non-resident permit. I have also adopted the philosophy of: prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

When I travel, the length and nature of my trip influences what I carry. If I am doing a day trip in a state that honors my permit, I usually carry a revolver because it is quicker to make legal, since a loaded magazine is a felony with a 7+ year prison sentence. If I am doing a multiple day trip venturing into an unfamiliar area, I will carry my P365, with at least one spare magazine.

Training also is a gigantic influence. My "combat-style" training is limited to both PPC, GSSF matches, and the Adaptive Defensive Shooting Summit. With the exception of the PPC matches, semi-autos are either the only allowed/encouraged arm. This past year, due to ammo shortages and my opportunity to reload revolver ammo was limited, I shot a semi-auto in the PPC matches.

 

[walkin jack]

In 40+ years of carrying in one way or another I have only had 3 incidents. All three were potentially active defense situations. fortunately the would be attacker(s) backed off in all 3 situations.

They were all very different. One was in a Walmart, one was in traffic as everyone was running from a hurricane, and one was a guy running up to me as I was puled over on the highway shoulder taking pics of an old house and barn for a series I was shooting which I called "This Old House".

All three times I gave the would be attacker a quick peek at my Glock 36, compact .45acp. and they backed off. No words were exchanged and no verbal threats issued from anyone. They took a peek, raised their eyebrows and did a 180.

But the question of how much fire power do you need is a big one and I don't thing there is only one answer. There are an infinite number situations that that could come up in and infinite number of circumstance and in an infinite number of places.

Anything between one .22 with a single bullet to a brace of high caliber semi autos with several extra magazines could conceivably be what you need.

I try to hit it in the middle somewhere. When I am carrying my Ruger 5-shot Sp101 .357 I have a pouch with 2 speed loaders also. when I'm carrying my Glock 20 10mm I have two full full mags to back that up.

It it can be done with one shot I'm good and it turns into a young war I think I have what I need. It it takes more than that I probably wouldn't make it out of that one anyway.

So I feel that this is the best I can do. What I carry I can easily manage and conceal and is no problem. Carrying more would be. And chances are that any threat I might have to face would probably only be one or two guys and not a whole gang. I have 15 shots with the revolver and 22 shots with the pistol.

I don't see myself getting in a gun fight. Unless someone is right up on me I'd probably have other options. My main concern is just keeping the punks off me.

Still we all have different life styles. The likelihood of needing to defend your self will be lesser or greater depending on yours. We must all arm ourselves to the extent that we feel safe but encumbered.

Situational awareness is most important and can make the difference in the outcome of a situation. For example when Parking in a big lot with lots of cars I look around before I step out. Clear the area before getting out o f the car. When I come out of the store I look the lot over well before heading to my car and look around as I'm walking. This is even more important to do during this time of year.

Y'all be very careful our there, the bad guys are out there looking for an easy target. They see you looking around and being alert they mighht just give you a pass. On the other hand.....

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

The two times I deemed it necessary to go for my S&W 49, the perceived threats thought that harassing the old fat white guy, had lost the appeal when my hand went in the pocket! Never cleared the pocket, never fired a shot!

At worst they were trolling for a victim! At best they were playing a common game of make a prank on the old fat white guy! Either way they learned that was something that they didn't want to do! No harm, not much foul!

Ivan

 

[rubiranch]

My brother was in a shootout. Fortunately they never had the chance to shoot back.

He always told me that if you don't win in the first three rounds odds are you wont win.

 

[URIT]

Many critical incidents during my 33 year LE career when the pucker factor was pinging near max. I only had to discharge my firearm once.

We had a range master who was a friend of Jeff Cooper and shot leather slap competition with him. He often reminded us youngsters that "if you need more than 4 or 5 rounds to take care of business then RUN". A quote he attributed to Cooper.

I had no idea who Cooper was but I took his advice to heart. I live by it still today.

I've notice how the conceal carry culture has changed in the last ten years from "run, hide, fight" to high max pistols and fast draws.

The real fight starts after the gunfight -- in the courts. I shutter to think I might end up in court - criminal or civil or more than likely both.

 

[rockquarry]

Many critical incidents during my 33 year LE career when the pucker factor was pinging near max. I only had to discharge my firearm once.

We had a range master who was a friend of Jeff Cooper and shot leather snap competition with him. He often reminded us youngsters that "if you need more than 4 or 5 rounds to take care of business then RUN". A quote he attributed to Cooper.

I had no idea who Cooper was but I took his advice to heart. I live by it still today.

I've notice how the conceal carry culture has changed in the last ten years from "run, hide, fight" to high max pistols and fast draws.

The real fight starts after the gunfight -- in the courts. I shutter to think I might end up in court - criminal or civil or more than likely both.

You make some good points. I couldn't imagine practicing fast draw, but that's only an opinion. Granted, there are always exceptions, but it would seem time spent on the range improving shooting skills would make far more sense, especially to a civilian concealed carry person.

 

[SS336]

Have never had to even draw my CC weapon.
Had to draw my service weapon twice, both time the person complied and it was over. Thank God.
Now at my age the only way I would get involved would be if me or mine were in a direct conflict. Going to court to prove it was justified today could become a goat roping contest of the first magnitude.

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

You make some good points. I couldn't imagine practicing fast draw, but that's only an opinion. Granted, there are always exceptions, but it would seem time spent on the range improving shooting skills would make far more sense, especially to a civilian concealed carry person.

A couple years ago at our club, I mentioned to the club president, I would be doing the Tuesday Night/Ladies Night again that year and we would be working on drawing, then later drawing and firing from concealed.

The president got a startled look on his face, so I ask if there was a problem? He answered and said there was but not with my group. He explained that he had never practiced drawing and firing! And neither had the three other guys listening in!

I told them to start empty or with snap caps and get used to drawing and pulling the trigger, so they developed a system that didn't shoot themselves! Once they had what worked, go to a non-firing first round so they got used to A) pulling the revolver trigger until it went bang, or B) racking the slide then firing.

The Ladies practiced what was the carry method they used: Coat Pocket, Purse, Garter, and OWB (None of the women thought much of the "Flash-Bangs) But they all figured out how not to be tangled in clothing. A VERY GOOD THING WE STARTED EMPTY!

Ivan

 

[Bullet Bob]

I think all the action shooting games have affected the psyche of many. They need objective data to declare winners; draw speed, split times, reload speeds. Those can be measured.

Good sense, decision making under stress, and calmness of character when in real danger, not so much. I'm not knocking the games; practice is almost always good, and familiarity with your equipment is fundamental.

Anybody who thinks some instructor has all the answers causes me to discount their opinion; nobody's perfect, and almost every situation is a little bit different.

 

[walkin jack]

You make some good points. I couldn't imagine practicing fast draw, but that's only an opinion. Granted, there are always exceptions, but it would seem time spent on the range improving shooting skills would make far more sense, especially to a civilian concealed carry person.

No such thing as too much training. even if it's only range practice punching paper you develop "muscle memory" and get the "feel" of your gun, and learn it's handling until it's as automatic as your next breath.

I used to practice the Mozambique drill, 2 center mass and 1 in the head. Once an RO made me stop doing that but I had it down pretty well. I do believe I could still do it fairly well.

 

[tominboise]

I don't carry a reload. I carry either a 6 shot 9mm semiauto in my pocket or a 12 shot 9mm IWB, depending on what I am doing and the weather. I often don't carry. I make it a point to stay away from areas that would be prudent to carry in, although no one really knows when or where the bad stuff will happen. I pray that I will never need to get to that point.

I also carry a handgun when in the woods in Idaho. There is probably a better chance of needing it out there then in town.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

No CCW here-New Jersey. I attended a JKD school years ago, the training always emphasized a worst case scenario-"a 6'6" giant on PCP!" as one visiting instructor put it. Hi-cap magazines? What's the motto of the Boy Scouts ?-"Be Prepared".
Running ? Doesn't work that well when 1.You are out of shape.2. Lame. 3. In a confined area. And running exposes your back to the enemy.

 

[S&W Fan]

I hold Ken Hackathorn in pretty high regard. His recent video about the "new reality" provides excellent food for thought for the non-leo armed citizen.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ljr3VoOozvs[/ame]

 

[LoboGunLeather]

For what it may be worth, and I readily admit that this data is over 6 years old now (since my retirement and sale of the holster business):

My business records clearly showed that 62% of new holster orders were for revolvers, and 30% were for Smith & Wesson J-frame revolvers.

In my shop the old S&W Model 39, the Browning Hi Power, the 1911 type, and other "vintage" semi-autos were used far more than any of the more recent wonder-guns.

Millions upon millions of the better quality handguns remain in use every day. Something new, improved, super-duper, state of the art comes along every few weeks, but very few remain in production for more than a year or two before the next iteration takes over.

I truly enjoyed filling orders for people wanting to carry their father's or grandfather's old (fill in the blank) revolver. Warmed my heart, to tell the truth.

On a personal level, my preferences over the years have been heavily in favor of the 1911-type pistols, with the Browning Hi-Power (P-35) as another "must have" piece. I added a Sig P229 several years ago, and consider it to be excellent in every way. In recent years I have experienced wrist, elbow, and shoulder surgeries as well as progressive arthritis issues that make semi-auto pistols more difficult for me to handle reliably and confidently. My solution has been a return to the good old Smith & Wesson double-action revolvers, and my daily carry piece is probably a few years older than all the self-proclaimed "experts" spouting opinions about this subject.

I'm not ready to give up my revolvers yet. I believe that millions of others continue to rely upon proven (if dated) designs for their needs.

 

[Sevens]

I don't think this subject has to be so adversarial. If a good guy carries a gun, THAT makes me happy, and I hope that he is skilled with it and skilled with decision making and I hope that he votes.

Sure I have my own personal view… and I could nitpick others' choices all day long, I just can't imagine why I would.

Specifically to the subject, I came in to a Glock 19 once many years back and after a range trip, I knew I wasn't going to keep it, so I offered it up on my local forum for trade and a guy offered a 3-inch S&W Model 60 in .357 and we hammered out a deal that made both of us happy.

When I met the guy for the deal… he was ENORMOUS. 6'8" and well over 350 and those were his descriptions on how I knew who I was looking for.

I asked him about the trade and he told me that recently he had been approached by three teenage thugs in a gas station parking lot. He had the Model 60 on him. They wanted his wallet, and changed their minds when his FIVE shot revolver appeared. He said (and I agreed) that he felt that he'd put himself in a less than ideal situation with five shots and no reloads. He added that these guys chose the largest man likely within miles, they figured they had the numbers.

I think everyone involved was glad that no shots were fired and the argumentative amongst us could say that his J-Frame was obviously "enough" as the evidence shows.

However he didn't think so, and I don't either.

I am deeply in love with my revolvers, but I have no desire to carry them.

I have even less desire to throw venom at those who do carry them — those people are my friends and my kinda people!

I will say this… if you have never experienced a problem / stoppage / failure / issue / hangup / breakdown / trouble with a revolver, I suspect that you haven't shot 'em enough. And when a revolver fails to cooperate, a fast tap-rack gets you nowhere. Typically you need a bench, some bright light, and often some tools.

When a pistol stops, clear it and make it run again.

-OH- the question! Twice in my life, boy I really needed a gun, did not have one either time. Since the last time, I have had one and haven't had to use it or even display it.

I keep fire extinguishers and a spare tire, too!

 

[BC38]

Never been in a gun fight and hope I never am.
Never had to use my fire extinguisher either, but I still have one handy.
So I carry all the time, even though I am in a relatively safe city of only 150,000 people (but growing).

I've carried 380acp pocket guns, 9mm single stacks, a 5 shot 44spl, a couple of different J-frames, and even have a 7-shot 357 titanium revolver that is very easy to carry and (thanks to porting) easy to shoot.

BUT, with all the "stuff" that has been hitting the fan all across the country this last year, I bought and started carrying a P365, with a second mag in my off hand pocket.

Will I ever be in a situation to need 23 rounds? Odds are really long against that ever happening. BUT even if it never happens, its better to have and not need it than to need and not have it.

The good news is I shoot the P365 better than any of the others (in DA), so carrying it is pretty much a no-brainer.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

nope, never, nada.

 

[Heinz]

Several good observations posted in this thread.

2 personal observations

In a draw and shoot situation (or practice), why would anyone want to go with a Glock that requires a concealed trigger holster for safe carry and extreme trigger finger discipline to avoid shooting yourself?

I always value my old DI's rules: If you cannot kill it with 8 rounds of 45 ACP you should have brought your M1. If you cannot kill it with eight rounds of 30-06, you should have brought friends. He was a Pacific Theater ww2 and Korean War vet. And his rules might need adjusting for modern firearms, but probably not.