That was directed at a previous post regarding a ar15 and mini 14. You can calm down.
Last edited:
Should very large handgun magazines be heavily regulated
- Thread starter bushmaster1313
- Start date
- Status
That was directed at a previous post regarding a ar15 and mini 14. You can calm down.
smithra_66
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2020
- Messages
- 1,307
- Reaction score
- 2,140
There should definitely be less than there are now. A LOT LESS!
Yes, criminals don't obey laws. All they are is inconveniences to law-abiding citizens.
Why do I have to jump through hoops to get a silencer? Why can't I carry a gun all across the 50 states? Etc. Etc.
Now you're getting it!
And if someone uses a gun in the commission of a crime, we should THROW THE BOOK AT THEM, not give them "probation" and let them out.
Indeed, and I believe he's a-roasting now. That doesn't revive a couple of hundred he killed or the x3 injured.
Discussing things is a great way to air them out - if one doesn't engage, then that voice isn't heard.
Let me say my politics are center right, and have been since I shook Ronald Reagan's hand at the Springfield, MO airport in 1976. Let me also say your colorful description ("unwashed civilians"?) is just as inaccurate. To be clear, I like what we have now except without oddball items that are most useful to those who mean harm. Specifically, that means extra-capacity pistol magazines, extra-capacity rifle magazines, and bump stocks - these are not just potentially used by mass murderers and their lesser friends, they have been. I hope they are indeed banned.
I also don't believe that the great majority of people who carry have any idea of what a mess they can get into if they display, or (less likely) try to use or actually use them. But you know what - the law is the law, and if they want to carry, so be it. It's not my problem, not my issue.
In 1990, I was working legislative liaison for our agency (under Republican Gov. Garrey Carruthers) in New Mexico. We were trying to solve the specific problem of out-of-state militia groups which were ant-government and anti-minorities buying cheap, remote land and setting up training facilities. It happened near Fence Lake, Bluewater Lake, and remotest Catron County. The NRA-ILA took the militant groups side, and pushed pugnaciously against any regulation of anything that even remotely touched firearms training. That stance turned off the legislators who were discussing, amending, and voting on the issue - the law passed nearly unanimously.
It was the wrong fight for at the wrong time.
30-20A-3. Unlawful acts; penalty.
A. Any person who teaches or demonstrates the use, application or making of any firearm, destructive device or technique capable of causing injury or death to any person with the intent that the knowledge or skill taught, demonstrated or gained be unlawfully used in furtherance of a civil disorder is guilty of a fourth degree felony and shall be sentenced under the provisions of the Criminal Sentencing Act [Chapter 31, Article 18 NMSA 1978] to imprisonment for a definite term of eighteen months or, in the discretion of the sentencing court, to a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000), or both.
B. Any person who trains, practices or receives instruction in the use of any firearm, destructive device or technique capable of causing injury or death to any person with the intent that the knowledge or skill taught, demonstrated or gained be unlawfully used in furtherance of a civil disorder is guilty of a fourth degree felony and shall be sentenced under the provisions of the Criminal Sentencing Act to imprisonment for a definite term of eighteen months or, in the discretion of the sentencing court, to a fine of not more than five thousand dollars ($5,000), or both.
History: Laws 1990, ch. 66, § 3.
Last edited:
ColbyBruce
Member
I have owned the twenty round BHP magazine for forty-three years, and the three thirty-one round Glock clones for six years. Not once have I considered using these for evil purposes. Most useful for shooting at long distance targets. I used to do that a lot, and was proficient at it as long as I shot regularly.
Attachments
As I read that there seems to be no legal training for LEO's or Military in NM. It could be stated that many movies shown violate the above law as they describe boot camp training. I would not be proud to be associated with the above legislation. The "civil disorder" IMO is way too vague.
Last edited:
You're missing the part about the training being in furtherance of civil disobedience.
It wasn't my law - it worked to dissuade such groups from buying NM property and using it for unlawful purposes. That helped the ranchers and property owners impacted by the groups.
It wasn't my law - it worked to dissuade such groups from buying NM property and using it for unlawful purposes. That helped the ranchers and property owners impacted by the groups.
Last edited:
We have something similar unfolding here, and has resulted in this proposed law:
11 § 4023. PARAMILITARY TRAINING CAMPS PROHIBITED
12 (a) A person shall not own or operate a paramilitary training camp or
13 facility in the State of Vermont. A person who violates this subsection shall be
14 imprisoned for not more than one year or fined not more than $1,000.00, or
15 both.
Started with a guy purchasing some land for a gunfighting school, Slate Ridge. Only problem is that he decided he did not need to follow local zoning regs. When his application to build a classroom was denied due to well established access requirements, he built it anyway. Then he tried turning it into a 2A issue. Then he and his facebook groupies started harassing neighbors. Several court decisions later, he has lost all his appeals and we will be stuck with this law...all because of a zoning permit and real bad behavior by gun owners. The sad thing is that he was doing nothing wrong gun related. Dressing up as Rambo and shooting up cars aint my thing, but his group was having fun so have at it, they weren't breaking any laws and they weren't hurting anyone. But when they bought a car identical to a neighbor's daughter, painted their name on it and shot it up, all bets were off...and that was all the people that want to ban anything gun related needed as an excuse for this proposed law.
In NM it was different - you had guys dressed up in woodland cammies skulking around the properties they bought, Forest Service land, BLM land, and neighbors' properties day and night, firing with full-auto or bumpstocked weapons at all hours of the day and night. Then some would buy gas/food/beer at the lonely businesses in the middle of these areas and let it be known they were prepping to go toe-to-toe with the Bilderberg Group, Tri-lateral Commission, the One World Order, ZOG, or whatever other conspiracy du jour with whom they expected to be 'at war.'
There was a question about 'civil disorder' in the New Mexico law - here's the complete definition set for this law:
30-20A-2. Definitions.
As used in the Antiterrorism Act:
A. "civil disorder" means any planned act of violence by an assemblage of two or more persons with the intent to cause damage or injury to another individual or his property;
B. "destructive device" means:
(1) any explosive, incendiary or poison gas:
(a) bomb;
(b) grenade;
(c) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces;
(d) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce;
(e) mine; or
(f) similar device;
(2) any type of weapon that can expel or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than six-tenths inch in diameter, except a shotgun, shotgun shell or muzzle loading firearm that is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; or
(3) any part or combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting or assembling any device described in Paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection.
The term "destructive device" shall not include any device that is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon;
C. "firearm" means any weapon that can expel or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any firearm muffler or firearm silencer. "Firearm" includes any handgun, rifle or shotgun; and
D. "law enforcement officer" means any employee of a police or public safety department administered by the state or any political subdivision of the state where the employee is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the penal, traffic or highway laws of this state. "Law enforcement officer" includes any member of the New Mexico national guard; any peace officer of the United States, any state, any political subdivision of a state or the District of Columbia; any member of the New Mexico mounted patrol or the national guard, as defined in 10 U.S.C. Sec. 101(9); any member of the organized militia of any state or territory of the United States, the commonwealth of Puerto Rico or the District of Columbia not included within the definition of national guard; and any member of the armed forces of the United States. "Law enforcement officer" also means any person or entity acting as a contractor for any other law enforcement officer, police or public safety department described in this section.
History: Laws 1990, ch. 66, § 2.
ANNOTATIONS
Am. Jur. 2d, A.L.R. and C.J.S. references. — Victim impact evidence in capital sentencing hearings - post-Payne v. Tennessee, 79 A.L.R.5th 33.[/I]
And exemptions:
30-20A-4. Exemptions.
A. Nothing in the Antiterrorism Act shall make unlawful any activity:
(1) in accordance with Article 2, Section 6 of the constitution of New Mexico;
(2) of any governmental agency;
(3) of any law enforcement agency;
(4) of any hunting, rifle, pistol, shotgun, sportsmen's or conservation club;
(5) lawfully engaged in on a shooting range;
(6) lawfully undertaken pursuant to any shooting school or other program of instruction;
(7) intended to teach the safe handling, including marksmanship, or use of firearms, archery equipment or other weapons or techniques to individuals or groups;
(8) that teaches the use of martial arts or arms for the defense of home, person or property or the lawful use of force as defined in Section 30-2-7 NMSA 1978; or
(9) that is otherwise lawful.
B. Nothing in the Antiterrorism Act shall make unlawful any act of a law enforcement officer that is performed as a part of his official duties.
History: Laws 1990, ch. 66, § 4.
There was a question about 'civil disorder' in the New Mexico law - here's the complete definition set for this law:
30-20A-2. Definitions.
As used in the Antiterrorism Act:
A. "civil disorder" means any planned act of violence by an assemblage of two or more persons with the intent to cause damage or injury to another individual or his property;
B. "destructive device" means:
(1) any explosive, incendiary or poison gas:
(a) bomb;
(b) grenade;
(c) rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces;
(d) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce;
(e) mine; or
(f) similar device;
(2) any type of weapon that can expel or may be readily converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than six-tenths inch in diameter, except a shotgun, shotgun shell or muzzle loading firearm that is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes; or
(3) any part or combination of parts either designed or intended for use in converting or assembling any device described in Paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection.
The term "destructive device" shall not include any device that is neither designed nor redesigned for use as a weapon;
C. "firearm" means any weapon that can expel or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosion, the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any firearm muffler or firearm silencer. "Firearm" includes any handgun, rifle or shotgun; and
D. "law enforcement officer" means any employee of a police or public safety department administered by the state or any political subdivision of the state where the employee is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the penal, traffic or highway laws of this state. "Law enforcement officer" includes any member of the New Mexico national guard; any peace officer of the United States, any state, any political subdivision of a state or the District of Columbia; any member of the New Mexico mounted patrol or the national guard, as defined in 10 U.S.C. Sec. 101(9); any member of the organized militia of any state or territory of the United States, the commonwealth of Puerto Rico or the District of Columbia not included within the definition of national guard; and any member of the armed forces of the United States. "Law enforcement officer" also means any person or entity acting as a contractor for any other law enforcement officer, police or public safety department described in this section.
History: Laws 1990, ch. 66, § 2.
ANNOTATIONS
Am. Jur. 2d, A.L.R. and C.J.S. references. — Victim impact evidence in capital sentencing hearings - post-Payne v. Tennessee, 79 A.L.R.5th 33.[/I]
And exemptions:
30-20A-4. Exemptions.
A. Nothing in the Antiterrorism Act shall make unlawful any activity:
(1) in accordance with Article 2, Section 6 of the constitution of New Mexico;
(2) of any governmental agency;
(3) of any law enforcement agency;
(4) of any hunting, rifle, pistol, shotgun, sportsmen's or conservation club;
(5) lawfully engaged in on a shooting range;
(6) lawfully undertaken pursuant to any shooting school or other program of instruction;
(7) intended to teach the safe handling, including marksmanship, or use of firearms, archery equipment or other weapons or techniques to individuals or groups;
(8) that teaches the use of martial arts or arms for the defense of home, person or property or the lawful use of force as defined in Section 30-2-7 NMSA 1978; or
(9) that is otherwise lawful.
B. Nothing in the Antiterrorism Act shall make unlawful any act of a law enforcement officer that is performed as a part of his official duties.
History: Laws 1990, ch. 66, § 4.
Last edited:
Anybody who thinks the anti-gun folks don't already know about the functional similarities between an AR-15 and a Mini-14 really doesn't understand the nuances of this debate.
The leaders of anti-gun organizations are savvy and smart, and take advantage of their followers who aren't. (Just like certain public figures do.) They lie in order to promote their agenda and raise money, and they take advantage of the ignorance of reporters (most of whom don't know which end of a firearm goes bang) in order to spread propaganda.
When talking heads who are former law enforcement or military officers (thinking of a particular former astronaut here) whine about "weapons of war" being sold to the public, or when they declare there's no "legitimate reason" to own an AR, they know perfectly well that they're lying. They know they can sell people on the idea that black rifles are exotic killing tools, because of their appearance...but they also know they can't make that same point about the Mini-14, again because of its appearance.
No, the folks who show up at anti-gun rallies on command to wave their signs don't know the difference between one gun or another...but their leadership, the people who meet with politicians and craft legislation, do know. And if anybody here thinks those folks are reading this Forum for talking points on how to go after us...well, I have a bridge to sell you.
The leaders of anti-gun organizations are savvy and smart, and take advantage of their followers who aren't. (Just like certain public figures do.) They lie in order to promote their agenda and raise money, and they take advantage of the ignorance of reporters (most of whom don't know which end of a firearm goes bang) in order to spread propaganda.
When talking heads who are former law enforcement or military officers (thinking of a particular former astronaut here) whine about "weapons of war" being sold to the public, or when they declare there's no "legitimate reason" to own an AR, they know perfectly well that they're lying. They know they can sell people on the idea that black rifles are exotic killing tools, because of their appearance...but they also know they can't make that same point about the Mini-14, again because of its appearance.
No, the folks who show up at anti-gun rallies on command to wave their signs don't know the difference between one gun or another...but their leadership, the people who meet with politicians and craft legislation, do know. And if anybody here thinks those folks are reading this Forum for talking points on how to go after us...well, I have a bridge to sell you.
Last edited:
John, I'll give you credit: You're at least consistent.
So there should be no gun laws...got it. So, in your world...
* People convicted of violent crimes should be able to own firearms.
* A 10 year old should be able to buy a pistol and carry it.
* Convicts should be able to be armed while in prison.
* People who are institutionalized should be able to order guns through the mail.
* No hunter safety classes should be required.
* Tourists at the White House should be able to carry their guns.
* High school students should be able to carry submachine guns in class.
* Target shooting on public streets should be legal.
* Amazon should be able to sell and ship guns directly to buyers.
* If a drug dealer wants to buy 100 Glocks and resell them, that's okay.
* Passengers on public transportation -- airplanes, trains, etc. -- can be armed.
* There should be no enhanced penalties for crimes committed with firearms.
The mind boggles at the possibilities here...
Obviously...
gregintenn
Member
That would be my world. Another part of my world would be that crime is so swiftly and severely punished, no one thinks about committing crimes.
smithra_66
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2020
- Messages
- 1,307
- Reaction score
- 2,140
Well, if anything, I'm heartened by the fact that 90+% of the people here realize that this thread was a massive fail.
Thanks OP!
Thanks OP!
gregintenn
Member
Assigning the blame of crimes people commit on inanimate objects is a fool's errand.
That's not the argument on all kinds of things - in example, burglary tools (especially lockpicks, shims, and current digital tools), dynamite and other blasting agents for entry, are illegal not because they cause burglary, but because they make burglary much easier to accomplish.
That is exactly true for extra-high capacity mags in the high-profile Loughton killings (31 rounds from a Glock before getting overcome while changing mags - 6 killed, 12 wounded) and the Paddock killings (60 killed, hundreds injured using semi-auto rifles with bumpstocks and 60-100 round mags). I doubt we'll ever know a real, year-by-year tally of how many of such mags get used by the gangbangers that prefer them for drive-bys, debt collection, and turf marking.
What causes mass murder is an evil mind, or intoxication, or mental illness, or rage. More ammo in the mag makes it much, much easier.
Conversely, what causes the defense instinct when confronted with acts of criminal intent is the will to survive and aid others in distress...More ammo in the mag makes it much, much easier...
...Ben
Sistema1927
US Veteran
I have always found it helpful that when I find myself in a hole to quit digging.
smithra_66
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2020
- Messages
- 1,307
- Reaction score
- 2,140
What kind of person thinks that making something illegal means criminals won't get it? What kind of person thinks it's difficult to make magazines? They are a box with a spring inside. What kind of person thinks it's hard to change magazines during a reload?
Do you not remember the 1994 ban that had zero effect other than to wipe out democrats electorally? It was so ridiculous that we sunset it in 2004.
Now, like the definition of insanity, we want to do the same thing again and expect different results? A supposed gun enthusiast wants to volunteer to ban magazines to an arbitrary capacity again?
What is the magic number for how many rounds I should be allowed to have in the magazine I use to defend my life? Please give us a universal number.
Thank you.
Last edited:
gregintenn
Member
When you figure out how to make criminals obey the law, get back to me. Until then, I believe the best answer to crime is to make it so unattractive virtually no one does it. Removal from society of they few who insist on continuing their life of crime would also suit me fine.
- Status
Similar threads
