I haven't bought a firearm other than through an FFL for decades. That comes from living on and near the border - no thanks on a 'deal.' Same with selling - not taking a chance on something I owned being used to further criminal interests in Mexico.
ATF admits to having 1 Billion gun records
- Thread starter Grayfox
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Our gun club has swap meets. Most members are Veterans, some retired LEO’s AND no “undesirables”, yes, we discriminate so no, zip, nada issues buying or selling.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
I hate to break it to you fellas. The government just assumes everyone has a gun, and they don’t care.
That's a good way to do things.
Couldn't agree more. My #2 in the Philippines and later in BiH was a very recently retired GS-14, career BATFE. Their interest is regulation of FFLs, operating NIBIN, then dealing with guns & explosives used in crimes or criminal & terrorist organizations. Jane & John are of no interest, as they're not problems.
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There are too many Jane and John Does. They could spend a month in my neighborhood investigating. I don’t think anyone cares about my stash of antiques.
JJEH
Member
This is not a surprise to anyone, is it?!
Back in the Clinton days I had a friend with an FFL. Back then they were illegally compiling lists of names of those who owned 'politically incorrect' firearms.
The law also specifies that the 4473s have to be kept for 20 years. He disposed of the ones > 20 years old. The agent wasn't too happy when told they had been destroyed. Too bad, he was in compliance.
The law also specifies that the 4473s have to be kept for 20 years. He disposed of the ones > 20 years old. The agent wasn't too happy when told they had been destroyed. Too bad, he was in compliance.
While both hardcore hoplophobes and dedicated conspiracy theorists entertain their various confiscation fantasies, law abiding folks in this country own far too many firearms for the government to worry about them.
Particularly true when you consider BATFE has a total of 2,670 agents authorized and is seldom up to full strength.
I know a few federal law enforcement agents, and legal gun owners are the last thing they're worried about. Bad guys who get guns illegally, dealers who have no regard for federal regulations, people who scheme to avoid or violate the law...they're far too busy with those types to worry about us.
The states are providing the records to the FBI. There is no federal law that prohibits the states from compiling a registry. My state has had one for a long time. So has Oregon. Some states don't keep the BC records but I think about 19 do. More every year.
Everyone continues to be worried about the fed when the real honest-to-god gun control is going on in your own state legislature.
Do you know who your state reps and senators are and how they vote? If you don't you should.
Everyone continues to be worried about the fed when the real honest-to-god gun control is going on in your own state legislature.
Do you know who your state reps and senators are and how they vote? If you don't you should.
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nope, FFL holder for 30+ years and I will be the LAST to file 4473's electronically.
Since the 1960s, handgun purchasers here in Maryland have had to wait seven days after buying a handgun to take possession of it, during which time the Maryland State Police perform a background check on the purchaser. The MSP maintains a record of those purchases, and those guns are all registered to their purchasers.
There are a lot of convoluted and nonsensical gun laws in this state (none of which has any effect on the situation in Baltimore, where most of Maryland's crime occurs) but as far left as things are here, nobody has ever proposed using those gun registration records to disarm the citizenry. I'm not saying there aren't folks who would like to do that, but I do think they understand what's do-able and what's not.
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But the registry exists and the FBI has access to it for an investigation. You might also say that a registry would never be used to disarm the citizens but the fact remains that one exists in your state just like one exists in my state and many other states.
The fact that you don't think it will ever be used to disarm the citizens doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.
When citizens are disarmed in Maryland it won't be an act of the federal government. The reason is Maryland is a small state like NJ and nobody who lives someplace else is going to care what happens in Maryland. The old you-get-the-government-you- deserve applies here.
I don't see too many people having a problem with the magazine ban we're about to get here in WA.
The best investment anyone could make right now would be in firearms that use 10 rd magazines, or less, like a 1911 or an HK45.
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Who would disarm 345,000,000 mostly law-abiding people? The 2,670 BATFE agents? Maybe the 697,000 state and local police who have just nothing else to do? The entirety of the 1.7 million of the military (including Guard and reserves)? As a nation we can't even find all of our kids, or even our 'registered' motor vehicles.
The whole notion is silly, and mostly useful for fearmongering, profiteering, and fundraising.
I spent over a year in Bosnia fairly recently - Bosniaks, Croats, and Serbs weren't allowed to own firearms, but once genocide and religious warfare started, those engaged in the really ugly fighting simply killed individuals with weapons (nearly all military or para-military) any way they could and armed themselves.
Not worried about us.
The whole notion is silly, and mostly useful for fearmongering, profiteering, and fundraising.
I spent over a year in Bosnia fairly recently - Bosniaks, Croats, and Serbs weren't allowed to own firearms, but once genocide and religious warfare started, those engaged in the really ugly fighting simply killed individuals with weapons (nearly all military or para-military) any way they could and armed themselves.
Not worried about us.
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Oh, I agree with you! But: There's nothing I can do about it, so I don't lose sleep over it.
I know there are hardcore anti-gun people who really do fantasize about sending the police out to take everyone's firearms...but those folks don't live in the real world. (They are the equivalent of those on our side of this issue who think 2A means there can never be any gun laws of any kind.) But those ideologues are (thank heaven) not usually found among the ranks of lawmakers and law enforcers, who [usually] live in the real world, whether they admit that publicly or not.
This ^ is a key point.
Name any controversial or divisive issue (you can start with the Forum's list of banned topics
) and there will be organizations on either side of it, exploiting it for money and membership.Advocacy groups NEVER disband because their goals have been reached...they simply move the goalposts. An organization founded to ban this-or-that, or to legalize this-or-that, moves on to a related topic once the ban or the legalization has been achieved.
I don't think the police will ever have a problem with me or anything I own. I'll probably be living on the ragged edge when they restrict >10 rd magazines here but like you say, it isn't a the Gestapo kicking down anyone's doors. My neighbor is a county sheriffs deputy that works for an adjacent county.
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