Govt is going after the low hanging fruit-this time ghost guns

[serger]

Not a problem IF there is no 4473 to fill out or the
serial number of the UNFINISHED item being tied to me.

The analogy is concealed carry. With the availability of
firearms that are not tied to a specific individual,
common criminals and those acting under the color of
law in violation of USC 18.242 act differently.

With concealed carry bad guys act differently. That's a
good thing.

Losing that is an infringement.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

There is no purpose to registration beyond confiscation.

 

[biku324]

Well, the oldest firearm I own was from the 1880s. It has a serial number; it's never been confiscated nor registered.

If a person builds a firearm from components they manufactured themselves for use on their property, I see no reason for any regulation. Kits for gunowner assembly are commercially manufactured and distributed across state lines and should be treated like any other manufactured firearm, IMO.

 

[serger]

But that begs the question, When does the kit become a firearm?

 

[biku324]

Well, the new reg clarifies that.

Today, the President and Deputy Attorney General will also announce that the U.S. Department of Justice has issued a final rule to rein in the proliferation of "ghost guns" – unserialized, privately-made firearms that law enforcement are increasingly recovering at crime scenes in cities across the country. Last year alone, there were approximately 20,000 suspected ghost guns reported to ATF as having been recovered by law enforcement in criminal investigations – a ten-fold increase from 2016.[1] Because ghost guns lack the serial numbers marked on other firearms, law enforcement has an exceedingly difficult time tracing a ghost gun found at a crime scene back to an individual purchaser.

This final rule bans the business of manufacturing the most accessible ghost guns, such as unserialized "buy build shoot" kits that individuals can buy online or at a store without a background check and can readily assemble into a working firearm in as little as 30 minutes with equipment they have at home. This rule clarifies that these kits qualify as "firearms" under the Gun Control Act, and that commercial manufacturers of such kits must therefore become licensed and include serial numbers on the kits' frame or receiver, and commercial sellers of these kits must become federally licensed and run background checks prior to a sale – just like they have to do with other commercially-made firearms.

The final rule will also help turn some ghost guns already in circulation into serialized firearms. Through this rule, the Justice Department is requiring federally licensed dealers and gunsmiths taking any unserialized firearm into inventory to serialize that weapon. For example, if an individual builds a firearm at home and then sells it to a pawn broker or another federally licensed dealer, that dealer must put a serial number on the weapon before selling it to a customer. This requirement will apply regardless of how the firearm was made, meaning it includes ghost guns made from individual parts, kits, or by 3D-printers.

This rule builds on the Biden Administration's prior executive action to rein in the proliferation of ghost guns. In February 2022, the U.S. Department of Justice launched a National Ghost Gun Enforcement Initiative, which is training a national cadre of prosecutors and disseminating investigation and prosecution tool to help bring cases against those who use ghost guns to commit crimes. As President Biden said during an event at the New York Police Department headquarters, if you use a ghost gun to commit a crime "not only are state and local prosecutors going to come after you, but expect federal charges and federal prosecution as well." FACT SHEET: The Biden Administration Cracks Down on Ghost Guns, Ensures That ATF Has the Leadership it Needs to Enforce Our Gun Laws | The White House

 

[luvsmiths]

Interestingly, my CT permit arrived yesterday. They must have read this thread.

Actually, I called Middletown and gave em hell.

You're welcome.

 

[luvsmiths]

Just this week outside a school near me, and about a block or two from the old Winchester building. Had a friend there teaching, and a Nurse who works there also. This broke out just as school was letting out.

But they were good kids. And see how smart they are to make their very own 9mms? And really smart to run it with a 50 round drum mag. He definitely didn't leave his house with any bad intentions. It's all good.
I see no reason to require any regulation. Heck, I don't have kids.
Please Wait... | Cloudflare


And then there's this: .....really bothers me!

"The 19-year-old is being held on a $500,000 bond on charges including criminal possession of a firearm, carrying a pistol without a permit, first-degree larceny, and interfering with police"

But.... doesn't he have the right to keep and bear arms? There shouldn't be any regs. Just arrest the one who did the shoot, for the shooting. Not for owning or carrying a firearm. (Maybe not even for the larceny, because my guess would be he was stealing from the corner store over there so he could feed his family that night.)
The constitution guarantee's them all the right to keep and bear arms. It's their God given right. Says so right there. The only arrest that should be made is the one who did the shooting.

Yes, and regulations are too to stop something like this. They are out there only to take our guns...

I'm sure this kid simply could not afford a gun, so he had to build his own. It's his right. You can't regulate that away.

 

[fordson]

In the context of fundamental rights, government action that has a chilling effect on the exercise of a right can be considered an infringement of that right. ………………………….

Hmm……..guess I'm a little confused…….. wouldn't that concept apply to just about every federal, state, county, city, community Gun control law?

 

[Catbacker88]

There is no purpose to registration beyond confiscation.

This sort of perpetual "glass half empty" argument is no less false than true. Why choose "purpose" over "benefit" or "utility"? The problem I have with "purpose" is those who pull it like a switchblade are usually the same who argue vigorous investigation and prosecution is the only acceptable measure for securing the population from abuse of the Second Amendment. Why is making firearms untraceable such a win-win proposition for them?

 

[kbm6893]

It has been said that former President Obama was actually a great gun salesman, since his rhetoric surely increased gun sales.

Sometimes I think many of those who claim to be pro-gun should be paid by the anti-gun lobby, since it is their actions and commentary that fuel more gun laws and restrictions. Fighting for ghost guns is a losing battle and it only brings more supporters to their side.

 

[Kevin J.]

"Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment right is not unlimited…. [It is] not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."

Justice Scalia in the Heller ruling, and he was a strict Originalist.

 

[kbm6893]

This isn't about building your own weapon. If the kits were serialized and a background check done after a transfer to an FFL, none of these would sell. It's the allure of them being untraceable and profitable to assemble and sell as many as you want. People were selling hand sanitizer and toilet paper during covid at five times their price. You think illegal Gun dealers aren't selling these?

No serious gun owner wants one of these for serious purposes. They're a novelty and conversation piece. They're also an attractive option for the hood rats who don't want to pay triple for a street gun with a couple of bodies on it.

 

[ggibson511960]

CFR's??

Can anyone direct me to the actual regulations, not the public relations campaign drivel? I would like to see if they have addressed previously un-serialized firearms like my prized Stevens single barrel shotgun (a family heirloom). Also, will it be possible for an individual to manufacture his own firearm, from a kit or from scratch, then get it serialized? In all this bloviating from the government I have not found this factual information. The devil is always in the details.

 

[kbm6893]

Can anyone direct me to the actual regulations, not the public relations campaign drivel? I would like to see if they have addressed previously un-serialized firearms like my prized Stevens single barrel shotgun (a family heirloom). Also, will it be possible for an individual to manufacture his own firearm, from a kit or from scratch, then get it serialized? In all this bloviating from the government I have not found this factual information. The devil is always in the details.

The statement from the White House says it wants gun dealers and gunsmiths who acquire a weapon with no serial number to put a serial number on it. Not only will that almost never happen (who is going to bring a gun like that to a dealer?), but it would be a logistical nightmare. You'd have duplicate serial numbers all over the place.

I wouldn't be running to have a serial number affixed to a family heirloom, that's for sure. And I know others will make their own on a 3D printer, just like people manufacture drugs. Sure, it's illegal, but the profit margin is so high. I predict a few will be caught doing that and the penalty will be harsh to discourage others from doing it. But ready to assemble kits over the internet are going to be gone.

 

[Greyman50]

Sadly Obvious that many here have NO IDEA exactly what the words used in the 2nd Amendment meant when it was Written, not what they " think" the words mean to them, today.
Hint, hint, you must read other documents written back then….

 

[Heinz]

Sadly Obvious that many here have NO IDEA exactly what the words used in the 2nd Amendment meant when it was Written, not what they " think" the words mean to them, today.
Hint, hint, you must read other documents written back then….

There was significant debate in the constitutional convention about the wording of the second amendment, as there was on most of the amendments. "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state" is an explanatory introduction but NOT a limitation on the right itself "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"
"Well regulated" in the vernacular of the day did not mean "well disciplined. "Well regulated" would include the concept of well equipped; it generally meant a thing or person or organization, that that was in proper working order and functioning as expected (Oxford New English Dictionary). Also the term "Regulators" was often applied to frontier self-imposed law enforcement groups. The other term in the introductory clause is "free state". Does that refer to a state as a governmental entity or a "free state" as an individual having freedom?
Nothing in the original language of that amendment plays out as the gun control advocates would like to have it.

 

[Greyman50]

Heinz, no intent of snarky. Could care less what todays progressive commies interpret as I'm a strict Constitutionalist. " Those that give up essential freedom for security deserve neither"….

 

[kbm6893]

We can argue back and forth on this until the end of time and nothing will change. What becomes law, becomes law. Some will abide by it. Others won't and will risk arrest and prosecution. Some will profit from selling them to those seeking them. If they are caught, they will be vigorously prosecuted and their lives ruined.

I suspect ghost guns will experience the same fate as bumpstocks did. They will be hidden in closets and basements never to be enjoyed or used much, if ever.

For me, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it either way. Inflation, gas prices, kids going to college, family physical and mental health issues, I just couldn't care less. I have enough guns to make a gun grabber have a stroke and I make my own ammo to feed them. Not being able to add a Polymer 80 to the safe means nothing to me. If the day comes (and I don't believe it will) that my pistols and semi auto rifles are next on the ban list, I'll worry about it then.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Hmm……..guess I'm a little confused…….. wouldn't that concept apply to just about every federal, state, county, city, community Gun control law?

Not really. A gun control law which said you needed to take a free one half hour safety class once in your life before purchasing a gun might be a pain in the rear end, but would not be seen as having a chilling effect on the exercise of Second Amendment rights. Publishing for all to see the name and address of each person taking such a class would have a chilling effect.

 

[biku324]

Can anyone direct me to the actual regulations, not the public relations campaign drivel? I would like to see if they have addressed previously un-serialized firearms like my prized Stevens single barrel shotgun (a family heirloom). Also, will it be possible for an individual to manufacture his own firearm, from a kit or from scratch, then get it serialized? In all this bloviating from the government I have not found this factual information. The devil is always in the details.

Sure! Here ya go:

Summary of Final Rule 2021R-05F | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives