Dillon vs Lee vs others
- Thread starter BabaBlueJay
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As others have said, read a couple of good manuals thoroughly cover to cover first.
Then, I would recommend starting with a Lee Classic turret kit. Remove the advance rod and use it as a single stage until you get really comfortable with the process.
Once you're proficient with single stage loading, you can put the advance rod back in and start loading higher volume using it as an auto advancing turret. 150-200 rounds an hour is do-able that way, and a lot of us never shoot enough to need higher production than that.
Even if you do ever get to the point that you need the higher production of a progressive, the turret will still come in handy for load development.
Then, I would recommend starting with a Lee Classic turret kit. Remove the advance rod and use it as a single stage until you get really comfortable with the process.
Once you're proficient with single stage loading, you can put the advance rod back in and start loading higher volume using it as an auto advancing turret. 150-200 rounds an hour is do-able that way, and a lot of us never shoot enough to need higher production than that.
Even if you do ever get to the point that you need the higher production of a progressive, the turret will still come in handy for load development.
OP
I am going to read the paper manuals on 357 reloading first, but once I learn I plan to get a Dillon 550. Their customer service and replacement parts make it worth the extra $$$ for me. In life I have found you usually get what you pay for, so I'd rather just pay more up front for the best version and one I do not need to upgrade. Even so, I will not order until I finish a few books as I want to know what the heck I am doing first.
Not a bad choice. If you stay with shooting and reloading, you probably will end up with a singe-stage press on your bench. The progressive is very good for making lots of the same ammo at a time, but the single-stage is useful when you just want to make one box of hunting or personal defense rounds.
smithra_66
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None of us hate Lee. I respect Lee for what they've done for the industry. They've opened the door for many shooters who are just dipping their toe in.
I have first hand experience though, and it's NOT based on snobbery:
In the 90s the handle on my turret press snapped. They sent me a new one...still pot metal.
Their "balance beam" scale was utter junk and would not return to zero. Replaced with a metal Hornady and problem solved.
Their powder measure sucks. Plastic and not repeatable. Replaced with a metal Hornady and now a Redding. Problem solved.
Their progressive shotshell reloader at the time was a massive nightmare and was utter junk. It was so horrific that I think think they pulled it off the market a long time ago (Lee LoadFast. Search the shotgun forums for THAT one. Yikes!) I replaced it with a Mec and it was like an epiphany.
Their dies are okay, but have aluminum seating plugs instead of steel. I've galled the threads on several sets. RCBS is better.
Reddings are better still.
Their bullet molds....UGH...don't get me started on those. My recommendation is buy an iron mold with better quality. But again, the Lee's are half or less of the cost of entry and that is attractive to get people started in casting.
I DO still use their dipper set, and their collet sizing dies. Both of those products are great, but even the collet dies require modification sometimes because the tolerances are not right. Their loading manuals are also GREAT!
So, you see, I'm using first hand experience, not snobbery. Other products simply work better, but if Lee is all you have, you can certainly make it work as you can attest.
I hope Lee is in business forever...just have to know what you're dealing with. I'm not sure why anyone would have a "hidden agenda" against Lee? I sure don't.
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oddshooter
Member
The best advice I can give is to find a Mentor.
You will save months of frustration and maybe a couple of fingers.
Mentors are everywhere and happy to help.
I recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook: 4th Edition for education and load data.
Prescut
You will save months of frustration and maybe a couple of fingers.
Mentors are everywhere and happy to help.
I recommend the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook: 4th Edition for education and load data.
Prescut
The Lord's Caliber
Superior in speed and capacity absolutely. But .45acp is the lords caliber. Won us two world wars. On a serious note though, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45acp and most other commercially available calibers have been modernized. The 9mm that caused the FBI to switch to a more powerful caliber, is not the same 9mm that they switched back to. And the same ballistic improvements have been applied to .40 S&W, .45acp, etc.
This world is ruled by .45acp, 9mm is just allowed to exist because .45acp doesn't feel threatened by its existence.
That all said, neither are the BEST caliber. That would go the .40S&W. People may count it out, but it is here to stay.
-Mike, the crazy .40 guy.
Superior in speed and capacity absolutely. But .45acp is the lords caliber. Won us two world wars. On a serious note though, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45acp and most other commercially available calibers have been modernized. The 9mm that caused the FBI to switch to a more powerful caliber, is not the same 9mm that they switched back to. And the same ballistic improvements have been applied to .40 S&W, .45acp, etc.
This world is ruled by .45acp, 9mm is just allowed to exist because .45acp doesn't feel threatened by its existence.
That all said, neither are the BEST caliber. That would go the .40S&W. People may count it out, but it is here to stay.
-Mike, the crazy .40 guy.
Can we all agree that we wouldn't want to get shot with either one?
9mmPatriot
Member
Damn right!!
OP
StakeOut
US Veteran
There seems to be a misconception here about the main reason for choosing a Lee press and it's not the cost.
Most of us Lee users can afford the pricey alternatives and would gladly pay it if there was a need.
I "enjoy" using my Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press
.I only load .38spl on it now so the turrets set up for .44sp,44mag,45acp,45AR,and 357mag sit idle.
My range sessions are only 22LR,38spl and 32H&R now with less frequency than previously.
Most of us Lee users can afford the pricey alternatives and would gladly pay it if there was a need.
I "enjoy" using my Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press
.I only load .38spl on it now so the turrets set up for .44sp,44mag,45acp,45AR,and 357mag sit idle.
My range sessions are only 22LR,38spl and 32H&R now with less frequency than previously.
oddshooter
Member
Hey OP, Goudy686
Tell us what state you're in and we might be able to find that Mentor for you.
Prescut
Tell us what state you're in and we might be able to find that Mentor for you.
Prescut
GypsmJim
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I started casting 230 .452's in 1975. Being a Lee guy from before then, I naturally got a Lee mold.
Now I'm up to about 20 Lee aluminum molds and have casted tens of thousands of boolits. That .452 is used for ACP and "Long Colt" and my original mold is still in service.
On a rare occasion my second drop goes into the "good" pot. Usually the first round is good.
In contrast I once worked with a guy that used steel Lyman molds, and they took forever to heat up.
That's just my experience. All I ever did was follow the instructions and have not messed up a mold yet.
I have had a few Lee molds...mostly ones I couldn't find in other mold varieties. Most of them didn't get used all that much. With a couple that was a good thing...they were junk. but most worked ok...and they weren't for large batches. In fact I happen to have a light 41 cal mold for making light bullet loads for my 41 mags. I think I would like to try one of Lee's buckshot molds though. I also used some Herter's molds in the past...but all I had were made by Lyman I think. I still have one around someplace. I've never had trouble getting steel molds up to temp. The molds I liked more than others were the H&G molds and a few Lachmillers
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Lots of good advice here.
I used a single stage Lee press for almost 20 years. Loaded thousands upon thousands of rounds with it ... and other than regular oiling and wiping down, it never needed a single thing.
There's a lot of other great brands out there, of course. Reloading is an art that you can make as simple or as complex as you want to. I kept things on the simple side.
The best advice I can offer about reloading is to approach it with a calm and undistracted mindset. I reload in my "quiet time" ... cell phone is off, no music in the background, and I can give my work my undivided attention. I think that, more than the press or the dies or anything else you can throw money at, will yield the best results.
Mike
I used a single stage Lee press for almost 20 years. Loaded thousands upon thousands of rounds with it ... and other than regular oiling and wiping down, it never needed a single thing.
There's a lot of other great brands out there, of course. Reloading is an art that you can make as simple or as complex as you want to. I kept things on the simple side.
The best advice I can offer about reloading is to approach it with a calm and undistracted mindset. I reload in my "quiet time" ... cell phone is off, no music in the background, and I can give my work my undivided attention. I think that, more than the press or the dies or anything else you can throw money at, will yield the best results.
Mike
Green Frog
Member
I own a Star Progressive and a Dillon 550 B. When provided with a minimum amount of maintenance and care they chug along steadily and churn out ammo by the boxful. OTOH, my shooting partner bought a pair of Lee Progressives when he was shooting a lot of ammo for Bullseye and PPC. Yes, he was able to produce large quantity of 45 ACP and 38 Spl respectively, but he was constantly fiddling with the presses due to their inherent slop… they never seemed to just settle in and work. Admittedly a limited sampling, but it's actual observation.
OTOH, I have other Lee products that I use with great success. It seems to be a matter of building to a price point. My very early Lee priming tools (with screw in shell holders) are my preference by a long shot. Other Lee tools accomplish their intended tasks well, BUUUT it appears that Lee often builds to a price point, and in this case, an "affordable" progressive press appears to have been to great a reach.
JMHO, YMMV.
Froggie
OTOH, I have other Lee products that I use with great success. It seems to be a matter of building to a price point. My very early Lee priming tools (with screw in shell holders) are my preference by a long shot. Other Lee tools accomplish their intended tasks well, BUUUT it appears that Lee often builds to a price point, and in this case, an "affordable" progressive press appears to have been to great a reach.
JMHO, YMMV.
Froggie
Update:
This year, 370 prairie dogs down.
366 fell to .223 with 50gr V-Max
4 fell to .45 Auto with 200gr Xtreme
All fell to ammo crafted on Lee equipment.
Green Frog, the Star machines are phenomenal… I don't know how such a great product line didn't survive.
This year, 370 prairie dogs down.
366 fell to .223 with 50gr V-Max
4 fell to .45 Auto with 200gr Xtreme
All fell to ammo crafted on Lee equipment.
Green Frog, the Star machines are phenomenal… I don't know how such a great product line didn't survive.
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The original Dillon was based on the Star. I would guess the Star would cost far more to build today than most would be willing to pay. Lots of steel, lots of machine work.
StakeOut
US Veteran
Green Frog,can you give an explanation to exactly what "inherent slop" is.
I'm not familiar with the term.
I never owned or used a Lee Progressive so I have no first hand knowledge but there may be more adjusting/tinkering required in getting a Lee Progressive operating correctly.I can't say one way or the other.
I can say because of years of 1st hand experience with a Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press that it is very well made and will make excellent ammo.
Adding a Lee Safety Prime and Pro Auto Disk adds more adjusting and tinkering to the setup process but the benefits and rewards are well worth the effort.
The Lee Hand Press is a great addition to any reloader's bench.
The Lee Hand Priming Tool is nothing to rave about but it does work.
The Lee Ram Primer is another nothing to rave about but it works as intended.
The Lee Aluminum Single Stage is great bang for the buck but not for everybody.
Lee Carbide Dies are excellent.
The Lee Bench Powder Measure is accurate but has a very small leakage out the side.
The Lee Pro Auto Disk powder measure with Riser mounted on top of the Expander Die works well for some powders but so so for other powders when used with the Classic Turret Press.
Non Lee:
RCBS 10-10 scale = Very Good
RCBS Primer Flipper Tray = Not So Good
RCBS Primer Flipper Tray 2 = Better than original
RCBS Bench Primer = Excellent
I'm not familiar with the term.
I never owned or used a Lee Progressive so I have no first hand knowledge but there may be more adjusting/tinkering required in getting a Lee Progressive operating correctly.I can't say one way or the other.
I can say because of years of 1st hand experience with a Lee Classic 4 Hole Turret Press that it is very well made and will make excellent ammo.
Adding a Lee Safety Prime and Pro Auto Disk adds more adjusting and tinkering to the setup process but the benefits and rewards are well worth the effort.
The Lee Hand Press is a great addition to any reloader's bench.
The Lee Hand Priming Tool is nothing to rave about but it does work.
The Lee Ram Primer is another nothing to rave about but it works as intended.
The Lee Aluminum Single Stage is great bang for the buck but not for everybody.
Lee Carbide Dies are excellent.
The Lee Bench Powder Measure is accurate but has a very small leakage out the side.
The Lee Pro Auto Disk powder measure with Riser mounted on top of the Expander Die works well for some powders but so so for other powders when used with the Classic Turret Press.
Non Lee:
RCBS 10-10 scale = Very Good
RCBS Primer Flipper Tray = Not So Good
RCBS Primer Flipper Tray 2 = Better than original
RCBS Bench Primer = Excellent
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Inherent slop. in fact the Lee progressives do have enough leeway that it takes an awful lot of adjusting to get them to work right. I have had about every kind of progressive and the Lee for some odd reason are not consistently perfect. Esp priming...which in a progressive metallic press can be the dangerous part. Even RCBS has made a few items not well thought out. I've run the Star's and CH Marks and they worked pretty well . Another Lee quirk is the o rings on the dies...easily replaced but they tend to not stay adjusted as they should esp on a progressive. Too much going on. The reason people like the Dillon's and even the Hornady progs is they usually can be depended on to work consistently with very little adjustment needed. For those who use the Lee's and like them most are very detail oriented(and some OCD). I sold and worked on Mec Dillon P-W and Hornady/Pacific presses. But never Lee. Most of the problems they had were user generated... Lee does make some neat innovative stuff...but because of price points use too much plastic which DOES wear and degrade over a shorter period of time than most others.If you can get a Lee Loadmaster to work consistently day after day week after week. Congratulations. Life is too short for most of us. I have a Lee Classic Cast Turret. Also have T-7s. BTW the average Lee user did buy the Lee because of the price of their stuff. Not because it was as good...but was just good enough for them. And that IS the truth. We all have our cheap ideas...a few actually work
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