IMR 4227

[LostintheOzone]

A friend has a truck load of reloading stuff from an estate. I went through it looking for primers but didn't find any small pistol. The guy who owned this stuff was primarily a magnum rifle shooter but had lots of 44 mag components. I don't own a 44 mag or any magnum rifles but recently purchased a model 28 (.357 Mag) that I may need powder for down the road. I also have an M1 carbine that I load for. I have about 5 lbs of 2400 on hand so I didn't think about magnum pistol powder when I went through the boxes and boxes of stuff.

Now I realize there were some opened 8lb jugs of IMR 4227 in there. Probably pretty old, maybe 15-20 years old. I don't need it now but I may in the future. I can't find 2400 in stock anywhere and I could run out in a year or two. The prices are also through the roof if you can find it.

My question is what is this powder (IMR 4227) worth in open containers with no age information? I'm thinking $5/lb. The stuff is still in his shop but won't be for long. He's taking it all up to a retail shop that sells reloading stuff and selling the lot just to get rid of it. It's quite a haul. I told him to ask 2K for the lot. I don't think they will want that powder because of the uncertainty of the age and composition.

Any thoughts?

 

[TexasViking]

If it has been stored and sealed properly it should certainly be worth $5/Lb. I'd be surprised if he has much luck selling opened container powder to a retailer that's 20 years-old. Checked before typing here because I know my older data used IMR 4227 quite a lot for .357 Mag as well as .30 Carbine. But a manual about as old as the powder, the Lyman Pistol & Revolver III, used it extensively except for cast bullets under 150 grs. But there #358477 it shows to be the most accurate powder tested, and again for the 160 gr. RN-SWC #358311.

 

[GypsmJim]

I don't know what the value is, but 4227 is my custom round for .38 snub nose revolvers. It works well in ALL .38's and .357.

If I could get it all I would gladly pay 5 bucks a pound (or even more). If the guy was an active shooter and reloader he probably stored the stuff right. I have seldom used 15 year old powders that perform just fine.

At worst, try some reloads. If they don't work well, losing a few bucks in today's economy ain't the end of the world.

 

[243winxb]

Plastic jugs buy. Metal, pass.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Plastic jugs buy. Metal, pass.

That makes sense. I used to buy 8 lbs of 800X in metal cans. I think that plastic replaced those about 15 years ago.

I'm checking with him tomorrow and grabbing some of that. The worst thing that can happen is I loose a few fingers and an eye, right?

 

[DWalt]

Today, I can see it going for a lot more than $5. 4227 is in the same general class with 2400 and H110, although I would pick either one of those over 4227 for loading .30 Carbine. My favorite propellant for cast bullet loads in every rifle caliber.

 

[243winxb]

Watch for redish dust. IMR 4227 in my m28-2 , with 158 cast lswc is a good 357 mag load.

Takes a lot of powder, gets used up fast.

Just watch for squibs, bullets that dont clear the muzzle. Not going to blow up.

 

[LostintheOzone]

Today, I can see it going for a lot more than $5. 4227 is in the same general class with 2400 and H110, although I would pick either one of those over 4227 for loading .30 Carbine. My favorite propellant for cast bullet loads in every rifle caliber.

Yeah, I think H110 is the original M1 carbine powder, as nearly as I can tell by reading what the required specs which was 2000 fps with 110 grain 30 cal. bullet. Also ball powder was the tech at the time. 2400 has a slower burn rate but it's a powder I chose to work with .357 Mag and 30 Carbine. I also loaded some Accurate #9 that worked well. Not disappointed. I'm not opposed to $5/lb powder if it works.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I don't know what the value is, but 4227 is my custom round for .38 snub nose revolvers. It works well in ALL .38's and .357.

If I could get it all I would gladly pay 5 bucks a pound (or even more). If the guy was an active shooter and reloader he probably stored the stuff right. I have seldom used 15 year old powders that perform just fine.

At worst, try some reloads. If they don't work well, losing a few bucks in today's economy ain't the end of the world.

I tried IMR4227 in my 686 6" and with a full load with a 38 special case with a 110 and 125 JHP I only got 945fps.

Best in .357 and a heavy bullet.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I tried IMR4227 in my 686 6" and with a full load with a 38 special case with a 110 and 125 JHP I only got 945fps.

Best in .357 and a heavy bullet.

Volume probably limited your velocity.

What would be a full load? Lyman 49 shows a min load for a 125 JHP starting at 15.6 grns. in a .357 case.

4227 is a medium burn rate powder. I load 38 spl with fast powder and it works just fine.

 

[TexasViking]

What would be a full load ?

I'll start with the 158 gr. XTP in .357 Mag. They used a very low start charge of 12.2 grs. for 944 FPS at 21,500 CUP and went up to 16.1 grs. for 1249 FPS at 41,400 CUP.
For the 160 gr. hard-cast # 358311 they used 11.8 grs. for 977 at 19,600 CUP and went up to 17.0, the most accurate load tested, for 1345 FPS at 40,600 CUP. That data works for cast or polycoated 158 gr. SWCs.
These loads are easily under the SAAMI MAP, and you can see that you could make .38 Special equivalent loads in .357 Mag cases if you wanted to. They did use CCI550 SPM primers though. I don't use IMR 4227, but I do use the P & R III data for other powders for a 4.2" GP100 where my loads over the chrono are reasonably close to their 4" test barrel results.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Volume probably limited your velocity.

What would be a full load? Lyman 49 shows a min load for a 125 JHP starting at 15.6 grns. in a .357 case.

4227 is a medium burn rate powder. I load 38 spl with fast powder and it works just fine.

The 686 6" 110 jhp with IMR4227 had 14.0c grs of powder at 945fps.
the 125 gr JHP with IMR4227 had 14.0c grs at 945fps.

I will also note that a 125 gr. HSM LFN bullet with 9.5 grs of IMR4227 did 507fps and out of my M49 J frame and caused
my revolver to bind up the cylinder, to where I had to take it home
to work the cylinder loose , due to powder flakes behind the ejector star.

Choose your powders, wisely.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I like 4227 and use it a lot in magnum revolver loads (.357 and .44 mag). It is by no means a "medium burn rate powder" if we are talking about pistol powders - it's actually quite slow - on par with H110/W296. I can't see it being a good choice for a snubby, but I haven't tried it. And probably won't.

 

[Just another 22 shooter]

Watch for redish dust. IMR 4227 in my m28-2 , with 158 cast lswc is a good 357 mag load.

Takes a lot of powder, gets used up fast.

Just watch for squibs, bullets that dont clear the muzzle. Not going to blow up.

Pour it out into a coffee cup or whatever is handy, to check for the dust. I bought an unopened steel can of IMR4895 last summer. I opened it and smelled it before I bought it and it smelled fine. Got it home and poured it into my powder measure, only to be very disappointed.

 

[Skeet 028]

Thered dust is rust...from the steel can. I had some 4895 that had the red dust. I poured it through a strainer...got the dust out and loaded it in 06. It worked just fine. Only powder I ever had that was truly bad was a can of Hodgdon surplus 4676(lot 220?). Started eating the can. Last fall, I did burn about 25 lbs of Surplus 4831 that a fellow had removed from the original keg and put in instant coffee jars. I kept one jar. Loaded 5 25-06 100 gr loads with it 5 loads of 4831 I got surplus in the 60s and 5 loads with much more recent H4831. Over the chrono they were statistically the same. The newer powder averaged about 20 FPS faster. It seemed to have slightly smaller grains than the old powder. I should have checked it before I burned it up. Still good but didn't trust the glass jars stored in an outbuilding for 60 years. Just my experience with 4831. I think the powder used in the carbine was one of many slightly different lots of WC820. I have never seen any ball powder go bad or any bad Hercules flake powders either. But just my experience...so far!

 

[243winxb]

Over the years i had red dust in IMR 4895-& 4198. Metal cans. Both smelled ok. Scraped the 4895, shot the 4198, after blowing the red dust away. 2 other cans of 4895 were ok.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I like 4227 and use it a lot in magnum revolver loads (.357 and .44 mag). It is by no means a "medium burn rate powder" if we are talking about pistol powders - it's actually quite slow - on par with H110/W296. I can't see it being a good choice for a snubby, but I haven't tried it. And probably won't.

This according to Hodgdon.

IMR 4227 is a medium burn speed, magnum pistol propellant. If a pistol says Magnum, IMR 4227 is the choice for true magnum velocities and performance.

In rifles, this powder delivers excellent velocity and accuracy in such cartridges as the 22 Hornet and 221 Fireball.

I was looking at the entire burn rate chart to place it as medium burn rate. I don't break down powders as pistol/rifle/shotgun powders but I suppose some folks might including the powder mfg's. They want you to stay in those lanes to brand and sell more powder. People caught on to that during the last shortage. The powder I use for 38/9mm/45 always has been billed as a shotgun powder by Alliant.

 

[GypsmJim]

Plastic jugs buy. Metal, pass.

When I first started reloading over 50 years ago, I had little time to shoot, so the components lasted forever. Everything was in metal cans back then and I had some stored for 20+ years with no detectable problems.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

I love IMR 4227 powder for 44 mag. I'd snag what you can. It gives the most accurate 44 mag loads in my 6" model 629, loaded about 10% below maximum. I actually prefer it to H110 or 2400 for that application.

 

[2152hq]

4227 was a popular powder for use in 410 gauge shotgun reloading.
If anything, shooters complained about fouling,,when do they not.

Other powders have taken over in 410, but it's still very usable in that gauge. It's bulky, so some 2 1/2" hulls & wad combinations won't leave much crimp room. 3" hulls you don't run into that problem.

It was/is also a very good .22 Hornet powder and also about the best powder for the .401 Win Self Loading rifle round.
It uses a comressed load in the latter.

Metal canisters don't bother me if they are in good condition.

A paper sack of Surplus 4895 mrked Hodgdon did go bad on me.
That was the only one I can remember.
The fumes from that caused metal containers stored with it in a wooden box to start rusting on the outside.
So some powder transfers were necessary. Glad I saved some empty plastic powder containers from past use.
Appropriately labled now of course.

But the sharpie pen labled stuff will become fertilizer or 4th of July entertainment to most people if I were gone I'd guess.