Tracking credit card gun purchases

And this why the 2A is being slowly eroded, out of the few comments above, nobody really cares..."doesn't affect me" is probably the single dumbest excuse to let this slide through. But "we the people" would rather have the convenience of technology and smart phones and big government telling us how we need to act and what we need to do if we cough or sneeze...oh yeah no problem!! Geez I can't get sick...unreal. Sad times, won't be long before 2A is gone.
 
And this why the 2A is being slowly eroded, out of the few comments above, nobody really cares..."doesn't affect me" is probably the single dumbest excuse to let this slide through. But "we the people" would rather have the convenience of technology and smart phones and big government telling us how we need to act and what we need to do if we cough or sneeze...oh yeah no problem!! Geez I can't get sick...unreal. Sad times, won't be long before 2A is gone.


Please tell me how what a private business does and your choice to do business with them erodes my 2nd Amendment Rights?

This just tells me I need to pay cash, send a MO or a check if I am concerned.

This isn't a Governmental regulation. It is a business choice.

Chose not to do business with them.
 
And this why the 2A is being slowly eroded, out of the few comments above, nobody really cares..."doesn't affect me" is probably the single dumbest excuse to let this slide through. But "we the people" would rather have the convenience of technology and smart phones and big government telling us how we need to act and what we need to do if we cough or sneeze...oh yeah no problem!! Geez I can't get sick...unreal. Sad times, won't be long before 2A is gone.

. Reading through the responses the problem is identified and much bigger than 2A infringements. What I'm picking up is that many here who abide by the laws have trouble identifying the negative impact and erosion over time. The hurray for me heck with every1 else mindset. Maybe it is just the same apathy that allowed us to be here. When have credit card companies ever been you're friend?
 
As for the 4473, they remain with the FFL dealer. When they submit your background check all that is reported whether you're buying a rifle or handgun. ATF can look at the 4473 but they have to contact the FFL to do so.
 
Now the antis can say "ooh look! We did something".

I don't like it. The C/C companies no doubt complied since the Left is currently in power.

I use my c/c to buy off GB. It's easier. But I do pay it off every month. The interest charged makes the Mafia loan sharks look generous.

Just another death by a thousand cuts move by the Left against the 2nd.
 
As a merchant that accepts CCs I don't want my all my sales coded as Firearms. Most of my firearms sales are cash. I don't need Big Brother's snout in my business any more than it already is.
This is not effective yet, very controversial in the FFL holder community.
I should know more next week after a Zoom conference on next Monday.
 
Meh…

Pay cash or write a check. If you can’t afford to pay for it up-front, you shouldn’t buy it. Racking up debt on a credit card is a horrible move, unless you get cash back on your purchases and you pay off the total every month.

Most of the CC companies charge 20% interest or more on carryover balances. Can you say loansharking? If a financial institution would give me half that interest rate on my savings, I’d pull all my retirement investments out of the markets.

This would severely limit the types of firearms many of us would have access to. Using a credit card usually has nothing to do with not affording it, or being able to pay "up-front". To pay cash or write a check, you need to physically be there in most cases. For those of us who live rural with limited buying opportunity's for anything out of the normal for that area, no differing types of firearms.

And a lot of us have never paid any interest on our credit cards. In addition, we couldn't be handloading without the use of online ordering with a credit card.

So i would respectively, and strongly, disagree.
 
Form 4473 remains in the FFL dealer files. Background check (phone or on-line) is not allowed to be retained under federal law. A national registry of firearms and owners is not allowed under current federal laws.

With automated notification of each transaction, and the credit card data will include cardholder identification linked to credit bureau reports providing date of birth, employment history, residence history, etc. With an ever-growing list of firearms and ammo purchasers it would be pretty easy to establish a target list for taxation or confiscations.

We are already seeing federal officers going to peoples' homes inquiring about lawful transactions (multiple sales, etc). How pleasant would life be with LEOs tramping around your neighborhood, making inquiries of your neighbors, maybe stopping by your place of employment and continuing their "investigation" by hounding your supervisor, HR director, co-workers, etc?

The 4th Amendment guaranteeing privacy in one's person, house, papers, effects, communications, etc, would seem to require court orders based upon probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed. Should that not apply to my private contracts and transactions with a credit card company?

Investigative fishing trips, back door method for gathering data that is not permitted to be gathered or kept via firearms sales data or background checks, with strong potential for large scale harassment under color of legal authority.
 
As a merchant that accepts CCs I don't want my all my sales coded as Firearms. Most of my firearms sales are cash. I don't need Big Brother's snout in my business any more than it already is.
This is not effective yet, very controversial in the FFL holder community.
I should know more next week after a Zoom conference on next Monday.

For the firearm purchases done locally (180 miles round trip), bout 90% were cash transactions. And most of the dealers gave a legal cash discount, just to avoid the extree work involved with credit card. Course there were situations after instant check for pistols was enacted, where simply stopped some where on impulse/opportunity without bring a lot of cash with, and didn't want to travel back.
 
.....The 4th Amendment guaranteeing privacy in one's person, house, papers, effects, communications, etc, would seem to require court orders based upon probable cause to believe that a crime has been committed. Should that not apply to my private contracts and transactions with a credit card company?

Yes. But do you really trust that the "electronic" 4473 you just filled out at the Academy is just on that particular terminal? Corporate? Who has access? Who is "monitoring" them for "compliance? A couple years back I bought a Colt's 6920 from the local WalMart. Their computer auto filled St for Saint Cloud. I got a call on my cell a week later to come in and change it to "Saint." Never gave Wally my cell. Hmmm, nothing to see here, or it's paranoia, or "conspiracy theory" or....... Joe
 
Good grief. ISO standards are simply a way to standardize all kinds of things, from tire sizes to container frieght dimensions to management standards to food production to IT standards to clean water standards to manufacturing and industry standards, and on and on. These standards are a way for trade to work efficiently across national boundaries; we are one of the world's primary beneficiaries as an exporter of ag productions, aircraft, heavy machinery, oil production services, banking services, and all of the American stuff you see in every corner of the world (I heard a Jim Reeves CD booming out of a music shop in Kota Kinabalu, Malaysia for a tiny example, John Deere heavy equipment thoughout the world, and Schlumberger oilfield services anywhere there's extractable oil or NG). ISO - Industry, Innovation and Infrastructure

Paranoia is not '2 noias.'
 
Last edited:
Yes. But do you really trust that the "electronic" 4473 you just filled out at the Academy is just on that particular terminal? Corporate? Who has access? Who is "monitoring" them for "compliance? A couple years back I bought a Colt's 6920 from the local WalMart. Their computer auto filled St for Saint Cloud. I got a call on my cell a week later to come in and change it to "Saint." Never gave Wally my cell. Hmmm, nothing to see here, or it's paranoia, or "conspiracy theory" or....... Joe

discussed this with my FFL ... you are correct in your suspicions that the digital records are elsewhere.
moreover, they are redundant and in at least two locations so the records can't have a simple canoe incident
 
This may be an opportunity for a local dealer to order or stock reloading components parts and everything shooting related so that a customer can buy what he needs with cash and I would be happy to add 10% for someone who would do that for me. If someone comes to the dealer and says who bought all this xxxx he simply says I don’t know it was a cash sale.
 
So to exercise our God given rights (including privacy - the left said that was in the Constitution somewhere), we all have to become Amish.
 
Back
Top