S&W Model 34 Kit Gun, new “I” frame, or improved “I” frame

[sophie]

I bought this nice Flat Latch Model 34 about 3 years ago, and it was listed as being made in 1961 and was built on the J frame. That was the year my wife an I got married so I won the auction, knowing there was a discrepancy on manufacture date. This Kit Gun is in the Original Box with literature, tools and was never shot much. Very slight wear ring on the cylinder. Matching numbered grips. I talked to the Seller and mentioned that according to the serial number on this Model 34, that the SCSW Catalog showed an earlier date, maybe 1957-1958, but he insisted it was a 1961 production. I believe he sold the gun on consignment. SCSW Catalog shows J Frame production began in 1960 with the Model 34-1. According to my SCSW this Model 34 Kit Gun was made on the improved “I” frame. The cylinder measures 1.32” in length so I know it’s not a J Frame. I have a Model 30, made in 1958- 1959 and it’s made on the improved “I” frame and the cylinder length is 1.25” so why the difference if both guns are supposed to be on the improved “I” frame. I have seen mentioned in some posts that the Model 34 was built on the New “I” frame, and not the improved “I” frame. I would appreciate any comments and information on the production date if someone has more detail. I know this post is long, but I’ve been thinking about this for a while and I needed some input.

 

[Muley Gil]

I'm sure Hondo44 will be around soon. He is our resident small frame guru.

 

[dsf]

Your serial number caught my eye. My Model 34 Kit Gun -

 

[JP@AK]

Hi sophie

First, you are correct. Your .22/32 Kit Gun was probably shipped in 1958. It is definitely not a J frame. I have 32230 and it shipped in January, 1958 and is not marked as a Model 34. I'd be surpised if yours is model marked. On the frame in the yoke cut, do you see MOD 34? At this time, the lowest number known to be on a Model 34 is 37179. Also, Model 34 numbered 38354 shipped in January, 1959.

There never were any .22/32 Kit Guns built on the Improved I frame. The Standard Catalog is in error on page 134. That information is corrected on page 144. In 1953, the New I frame was introduced and the Kit Guns started with serial number 101. As you noted, J frame Kit Guns were first released c. 1960 and were marked MOD 34-1.

I hope this helps. Hondo44 will likely come along and add anything I've missed.

 

[sophie]

Here are a few more photos with the cylinder open showing the Model 34 stamp. I am curious as to what generation of flat latch is on this Kit Gun.
James

 

[sophie]

Hi sophie

First, you are correct. Your .22/32 Kit Gun was probably shipped in 1958. It is definitely not a J frame. I have 32230 and it shipped in January, 1958 and is not marked as a Model 34. I'd be surpised if yours is model marked. On the frame in the yoke cut, do you see MOD 34? At this time, the lowest number known to be on a Model 34 is 37179. Also, Model 34 numbered 38354 shipped in January, 1959.

There never were any .22/32 Kit Guns built on the Improved I frame. The Standard Catalog is in error on page 134. That information is corrected on page 144. In 1953, the New I frame was introduced and the Kit Guns started with serial number 101. As you noted, J frame Kit Guns were first released c. 1960 and were marked MOD 34-1.

I hope this helps. Hondo44 will likely come along and add anything I've missed.

Jack, I just posted a few more pictures showing the Model 34 stamp with the cylinder open. Thanks for your reply. I didn’t know if I could include your quote with the pictures so I did it this way.

 

[sophie]

Hi sophie

I have 32230 and it shipped in January, 1958 and is not marked as a Model 34. On the frame in the yoke cut, do you see MOD 34? At this time, the lowest number known to be on a Model 34 is 37179.



I hope this helps. Hondo44 will likely come along and add anything I've missed.

Jack, who keeps the records you speak of on the lowest serial number stamped Model 34. This 36848 appears to be lower than the 37179 you mentioned. Post #3 by dsf shows his Kit Gun to be lower yet at 35848. I wonder if his gun is stamped as a Model 34. Thanks

 

[JP@AK]

Here are a few more photos with the cylinder open showing the Model 34 stamp.

Interesting! New info.

Jack, who keeps the records you speak of on the lowest serial number stamped Model 34. This 36848 appears to be lower than the 37179 you mentioned.

Jim Carter (Hondo44) is the source for the information I gave you. But I'm sure now he will note yours as the lowest numbered Model 34 when he sees this thread. As always, these matters are in flux until something new to us shows up.

Post #3 by dsf shows his Kit Gun to be lower yet at 35848. I wonder if his gun is stamped as a Model 34.

I would doubt it, but unless he tells us, we are unlikely to know. I hope dsf lets us know one way or the other. According to Jim, 36051 is the highest known Model of 1953 with no model number.

Also, note that his has the square butt. Based on the data I received from Jim some time back, 39630 was the lowest number on a square butt that was marked as a Model 34.

But, as I noted above, our knowledge grows as more guns show up.

 

[dsf]

Jack, who keeps the records you speak of on the lowest serial number stamped Model 34. This 36848 appears to be lower than the 37179 you mentioned. Post #3 by dsf shows his Kit Gun to be lower yet at 35848. I wonder if his gun is stamped as a Model 34. Thanks

I'll take a look later tonight and post result.

 

[Hondo44]

My latest info:

36051 Highest # Model of 1953 New I frame (pre model 34), 2” Kit Gun, 3 screw, sq butt.

351XX Lowest Mod 34 serial # stamped (a sq butt).

 

[wbraswell]

Your gun appears to have a trigger guard like the J-frame. That would be the new I-frame. The older improved I-frame would have the same trigger guard as the old I-frame, that is rounder.

 

[dsf]

My latest info:

36051 Highest # Model of 1953 New I frame (pre model 34), 2” Kit Gun, 3 screw, sq butt.

351XX Lowest Mod 34 serial # stamped (a sq butt).

FWIW - mine shows a "Model 34" stamp.

 

[JP@AK]

FWIW - mine shows a "Model 34" stamp.

Thanks dsf. But I'm confused. In your two pictures at Post #3, the first one shows a square butt, but in the second picture, it looks like a round butt. Which is it? Maybe it is just the perspective in the second pic?

 

[Hondo44]

FWIW - mine shows a "Model 34" stamp.

View attachment 594003

Those are two remarkable serial #s to show up in the same thread exactly 1000 apart:
yours 35848 and the OP's 36848

 

[sophie]

Those are two remarkable serial #s to show up in the same thread exactly 1000 apart:
yours 35848 and the OP's 36848

I thought the same thing when dsf posted the serial # on his Model 34. He said that my Model 34 serial # caught his eye, and I can see why. Unusual to be exactly 1000 apart. Cool—

 

[Hondo44]

I talked to the Seller and mentioned that according to the serial number on this Model 34, that the SCSW Catalog showed an earlier date, maybe 1957-1958, but he insisted it was a 1961 production. The cylinder measures 1.32” in length so I know it’s not a J Frame. I have a Model 30, made in 1958- 1959 and it’s made on the improved “I” frame and the cylinder length is 1.25” so why the difference if both guns are supposed to be on the improved “I” frame. I have seen mentioned in some posts that the Model 34 was built on the New “I” frame, and not the improved “I” frame. I would appreciate any comments and information on the production date if someone has more detail.

I too have a hard time believing a 1961 ship date for your Mod 34. I never say never with S&W but I don't have any serial #s in the vicinity of yours shipping anywhere near that late. As you and others posted above, nearer to the last quarter of 1958 - first quarter 1959.


And as you discovered the cyl lengths didn't change from the Improved I frame to the 1953 New I frame. Only the trigger guard (larger egg shaped), and the 1/8" longer rd butt grip frame (and added new sq butt grip) changed. Plus the front trigger guard screw was deleted.

The difference between the cyl lengths of your Models 30 and 34 are within the normal production variation, but still short of the 1.50" length of the J frame M30-1 and M34-1.

By the way, #677758 is the earliest stamped Mod 30 I have in my database. Do you mind sharing the # of yours?

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks dsf. But I'm confused. In your two pictures at Post #3, the first one shows a square butt, but in the second picture, it looks like a round butt. Which is it? Maybe it is just the perspective in the second pic?

Yes me too. I had to look at the T grip to be sure they were the same gun.

 

[dsf]

Thanks dsf. But I'm confused. In your two pictures at Post #3, the first one shows a square butt, but in the second picture, it looks like a round butt. Which is it? Maybe it is just the perspective in the second pic?

Same gun, just different angle re the serial number shot. Does make it look like a RB type - but it's square.

 

[sophie]

By the way, #677758 is the earliest stamped Mod 30 I have in my database. Do you mind sharing the # of yours?

Hondo, here is my Model 30, but it appears to be a somewhat higher serial # than the earliest Model 30 serial # you have on record.

 

[Hondo44]

Thank you James,

Here's a shipping date reference for you:

#689371 Model 31 shipped in Aug 1958