Gyrojet... not sure if it "qualifies" as a fire arm.. but...
Dead end designs
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LVSteve
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Ah, but it begat the Mateba.
OP
BLACKHAWKNJ
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Yes, the Webley-Fosbery. As Jeff Cooper would say "An ingenious solution to a non-existent problem."
Then there's the Dardick.
There was the Thomas 45, had an action which required a very firm grip to engage the mechanism to delay the slide after firing.
Then there's the Dardick.
There was the Thomas 45, had an action which required a very firm grip to engage the mechanism to delay the slide after firing.
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DWalt
Member
There is the Dardick. Also several versions of blow-forward pistols. I would consider a Gyrojet to be a firearm. There were many really weird revolver designs back in the 19th Century. All were dead end designs and few were produced.
Not a handgun, but what about that Remington rifle that fired electric-primed ammunition or the Daisy VL rifles and ammunition?
Not a handgun, but what about that Remington rifle that fired electric-primed ammunition or the Daisy VL rifles and ammunition?
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And then there were firearms that were very successful but the manufacturer discontinued them because they just cost too much to manufacture and the Company could not make money.
ie: The Winchester 9422 and the Thompson sub machine gun. Excellent designs, excellent quality - just cost too much.
ie: The Winchester 9422 and the Thompson sub machine gun. Excellent designs, excellent quality - just cost too much.
Add the Remington model 51 semi auto to the list.
My Gyrojet 13mm is the only gun I have that I neither afford to shoot or reload for. Fired it once just to say I did, it went more or less in the direction pointed.
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SnidelyWhiplash
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When originally issued...operators didn't appreciate the need for a properly designed holster. They learned after a few Troopers shot themselves a new...rectum...for lack of a more descriptive term...by thinking they could simply shove it into the pants like they did with revolvers.
mmaher94087
Member
Dead end designs - Check out the Zenk LLC revolver. I suspect this will be a modern flop.
Trooper224
Member
Not to be mean or rude, but this is important.....why?I mean, yes, it's essentially true, but why even think about it when there are so many really important things to discuss.
Yet, despite your view of the topics lack of value, you still took the crime to comment.
Trooper224
Member
Forget the Luger. Dig that sexy frontier man sachel!
Sorry to disagree, but I was one of those issued the P7. It was highly regarded by us and had a stellar reputation for accuracy and safety. It did get hot after a few magazines (we carried 5) but it was lighting fast to get on target. My only real gripe was with the paddle magazine release. As a right handed shooter, the holster would be right up against the seatbelt when seated in the car. Sometimes, the seat belt would bump the paddle, and when you got out of the car, you would have to seat the magazine with your thumb. I believe the NJSP adopted the P7M8 in 1982. It wasn’t until after the Tpr. Gonzalez murder in 1997 that a replacement was considered. I kept mine throughout the S&W 99 debacle, and finally turned it in when we were issued the SiG P228 in 2001. Although we were unable to purchase our M8s, I did pick up a M13 from a local department, and carried it off-duty.
FN/Browning made a few attempts to replace the Hi Power with a derivative.
The FN HPDA was an attempt to create a double action version of the Hi Power for the XM9 pistols trials in 1983. It wasn’t successful but entered production for civilian sales in 1983 as well. It again wasn’t successful was discontinued in 1987.
FN and in particular Browning tried again in 1990 with a second variation with a more modern styled safety lever (below). Personally, I don’t think that was a positive change as it made it look even less like a Hi Power, and the iconic looks of the Hi Power have always been a big selling point. It was discontinued again in 1990.
The Browning Dual Mode (BDM) was a Browning submission for the FBI’s original 9mm pistol trials with the idea that FBI adoption would lead to many other law enforcement agencies and police departments adopting it was well. The selling points were:
- a very slim width for a DA, double stack 9mm pistol, aimed at the FBIs concealed carry needs; and
- a dual mode switch that provided the option of either “Revolver” operation as a DA only pistol, or “Pistol” operation as a DA/SA pistol. It’s major failing was the backwards operation of the safety lever with “fire” being in the up position.
The FBI wasn’t interested, but it was produced as a civilian pistol from 1991-1999, but was never much of a commercial success.
It’s innovative features were total dead ends.
The FN HP-SFS (safety, fast shooting) Hi Power was sold as a factory option on the FN Hi Powers in 2002 and 2003. I bought mine as a close out in 2004 at about half the going price for the concurrent Mk III Hi Power.
The predecessor of the SFS system was designed by FNs chief designer Leon Hubert for the first round of the XM9 pistol trials but it was disqualified before the shooting ever started as it was not a double action design. The SFS system that went into production was a derivative of the original design.
However, Hubert owned the patents and when he retired he started supplying SFS conversion kits to Cylinder and Slide as well as SFS conversion kits for the 1911. The close association with cylinder and slide and their much greater success in selling SFS conversion kits than FN ever had with the factory SFS Hi Power has led to some folks thinking the SFS kits were a C&S development and the the SFS Hi Power was never an FN factory option.
I bought my SFS Hi Power because the price was cheap and I could convert it to standard Hi Power configuration with a Hi a power hammer, sear, safety, and if desired, a slide stop lever (which is only a cosmetic difference). However, I found I liked it, particularly for concealed carry, and carried it for about 10 years.
The hammer is a true no bite hammer design. Note the similarity the hammer on the HPDA, also designed for the XM9 trials. But in addition to the no bite benefits, the ability to carry it cocked and locked with the hammer “down” is both comfortable in concealed carry and less likely to scare people in open carry as it does not looked cocked.
In fact, I shot my SFS Hi Power in tactical matches and occasionally had problems convincing range officers that yes, I did indeed want to start the stage with the hammer down. In a couple cases I actually had to clear the weapon so I could show them how it worked and make it clear that starting with the hammer back would in fact be “condition 0” and not something I wanted to do drawing from a holster.
None the less, despite some additional popularity in the 1911, the SFS system never really caught on. With Cylinder and Slide potentially going out of business if a suitable buyer isn’t found it may disappear entirely.
The FN HPDA was an attempt to create a double action version of the Hi Power for the XM9 pistols trials in 1983. It wasn’t successful but entered production for civilian sales in 1983 as well. It again wasn’t successful was discontinued in 1987.
FN and in particular Browning tried again in 1990 with a second variation with a more modern styled safety lever (below). Personally, I don’t think that was a positive change as it made it look even less like a Hi Power, and the iconic looks of the Hi Power have always been a big selling point. It was discontinued again in 1990.
The Browning Dual Mode (BDM) was a Browning submission for the FBI’s original 9mm pistol trials with the idea that FBI adoption would lead to many other law enforcement agencies and police departments adopting it was well. The selling points were:
- a very slim width for a DA, double stack 9mm pistol, aimed at the FBIs concealed carry needs; and
- a dual mode switch that provided the option of either “Revolver” operation as a DA only pistol, or “Pistol” operation as a DA/SA pistol. It’s major failing was the backwards operation of the safety lever with “fire” being in the up position.
The FBI wasn’t interested, but it was produced as a civilian pistol from 1991-1999, but was never much of a commercial success.
It’s innovative features were total dead ends.
The FN HP-SFS (safety, fast shooting) Hi Power was sold as a factory option on the FN Hi Powers in 2002 and 2003. I bought mine as a close out in 2004 at about half the going price for the concurrent Mk III Hi Power.
The predecessor of the SFS system was designed by FNs chief designer Leon Hubert for the first round of the XM9 pistol trials but it was disqualified before the shooting ever started as it was not a double action design. The SFS system that went into production was a derivative of the original design.
However, Hubert owned the patents and when he retired he started supplying SFS conversion kits to Cylinder and Slide as well as SFS conversion kits for the 1911. The close association with cylinder and slide and their much greater success in selling SFS conversion kits than FN ever had with the factory SFS Hi Power has led to some folks thinking the SFS kits were a C&S development and the the SFS Hi Power was never an FN factory option.
I bought my SFS Hi Power because the price was cheap and I could convert it to standard Hi Power configuration with a Hi a power hammer, sear, safety, and if desired, a slide stop lever (which is only a cosmetic difference). However, I found I liked it, particularly for concealed carry, and carried it for about 10 years.
The hammer is a true no bite hammer design. Note the similarity the hammer on the HPDA, also designed for the XM9 trials. But in addition to the no bite benefits, the ability to carry it cocked and locked with the hammer “down” is both comfortable in concealed carry and less likely to scare people in open carry as it does not looked cocked.
In fact, I shot my SFS Hi Power in tactical matches and occasionally had problems convincing range officers that yes, I did indeed want to start the stage with the hammer down. In a couple cases I actually had to clear the weapon so I could show them how it worked and make it clear that starting with the hammer back would in fact be “condition 0” and not something I wanted to do drawing from a holster.
None the less, despite some additional popularity in the 1911, the SFS system never really caught on. With Cylinder and Slide potentially going out of business if a suitable buyer isn’t found it may disappear entirely.
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DWalt
Member
Colt made several semiautos which never succeeded in finding a market and are today little-known. But you can’t really call them dead-end guns, rather they were design and marketing blunders. The best known of the group was the Colt All American 2000. Fundamentally, it was rushed to market too early before the design and features were fully perfected, more of a project management failure than anything else, as the fundamental mechanical design was good. It became a case of assisted suicide in the marketplace. About 15 years ago I found one LNIB at a pawn shop in Uvalde TX for $400. I sure wish I had bought it.
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Baltimoreed11754
Member
What was the relatively modern semiauto that loaded the ammo in the magazine backwards and stripped the round as the slide went rearward? Didn’t see that catching on.
The Boberg? It was very expensive too and that is never a selling point. Bond Arms will try again. Joe
Bond Arms | Boberg Is Back – The Bond Bullpup 9mm CCW | Guns America
As the late Meatloaf would say (sing): "You took the words right out of my mouth!"
Sam
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Since Leon Hubert (correctly pronounced, Lay-on Hew-bear) is now an integral part of BHSS (Browning Hi-Power Spring Solutions), I don't believe there's any reason to think the SFS will fade away too soon. Btw, I happen to love mine!
Sam
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