Old Guns Leaded Barrels

[delta-419]

A Forum Member and I each acquired a Winchester 1892 circa 1905-1911. Both are caliber 25-20 and are identical carbines. The barrels were so leaded up that accuracy had a very negative impact on paper targets. My brother in arms took to scrubbing the lead out of the barrel, he sent me a photo of the pile of black patches (maybe 500 black streaked patches) with no end in sight. This intrigued me to also do the same and cleanup my old Winchester.
I am 3 weeks of spending an hour a day scrubbing the barrel with an old bottle of Outers lead solvent with one pass followed by 2-3 passes with a brass bore brush, followed with a patch dipped in Hopps #9. Result is a black bore patch. The more passes with the bore brush the more black patches. Has anybody encountered this messy job with an old rifle. These guns were used at the end of the black powder era when cartridges were still factory loaded with BP. Question is: are we getting BP fouling along with the lead. I can see much improvement in the lands and grooves in the barrel but patches still come out with black/gray streaks. Your experiences are appreciated.

 

[dave1918a2]

Get some Barnes CR10 and mop the bore wet. Let it sit a day and tight patch it. repeat.

 

[Pisgah]

You are dealing with lead and carbon fouling. It will take a lllooonnnggg time to get it squeaky clean...

 

[pantannojack]

Those patches are not bad. I would try J B Bore past on a patch wrapped around a worn bore brush. These pics are from a Lyman Bore Cam.

 

[rockquarry]

I've had at least one bore on an old Winchester with slight pitting that shot well, but never would a patch come out white no matter how much it was cleaned. Not really something to worry about if the gun shoots well.

The suggestion to use JB Paste is the best advice. When dealing with severe carbon fouling, no liquid product will work. They are good only for light carbon fouling, which in most cases doesn't need to be removed completely anyway, like copper fouling.

I've never harmed a bore with JB Paste, but the the old guns have steel that is likely softer than more modern steel. I'd go easy with the JB. Again, leaving some fouling will do no harm. I've removed carbon fouling to bare metal in at least one modern barrel (on a Cooper rifle) and experienced a deterioration in accuracy for a dozen rounds. Once it was dirtied up from shooting, accuracy returned.

A bore scope helps with all this but isn't necessary, The proof will be in group size on a target, but these rough old barrels foul quickly and will need to be cleaned more often than other rifles. Plain Hoppe's #9 works fine and actually better than many modern cleaners and snake oil treatments. An oversized bronze brush helps, too.

 

[rockquarry]

I forgot to mention it in the other post, but as for bore brushes... Brownells has been marketing a bronze brush called "Double Tuff". Bristles are much stiffer than regular bronze brushes. These work like using an oversized brush, but they last considerably longer than a regular oversized brush.

I've used these for several years. They work well for neglected bores, leaded bores, etc. I don't use them for routine cleaning as they take more effort to push through a bore, but they may be fine for that, too. I don't recall what sizes they are available in but that information will be on the website or catalog. They cost more but are worth the price.

 

[JohnHL]

My old (now deceased) shooting buddy had one of those reverse electro-plating bore cleaners (Outer's "Foul-Out" I think it was called?) that I got from him before he passed.

I've never used it and I wonder about the effectiveness in a situation like the O.P.'s.

Anyone have any experience with one of these?

John?

 

[H Richard]

I would soak the bore with a solution of Kroil or a 50/50 acetone and ATF. Let it soak in for a couple days, then use the copper from a pad of pot scrubber (real copper, no substitute). It will remove the lead. Do this a half dozen times, then use the the J B bore paste until clean. Patches with your favorite solution in between.

Depending on how many thousands of lead bullets and the number of years of going without cleaning will determine how long it eill take to get it clean.

 

[glenwolde]

You might try a patch cut from a lead-remover cloth.

 

[Borderboss]

My old (now deceased) shooting buddy had one of those reverse electro-plating bore cleaners (Outer's "Foul-Out" I think it was called?) that I got from him before he passed.

I've never used it and I wonder about the effectiveness in a situation like the O.P.'s.

Anyone have any experience with one of these?

John?

I have one of these but haven't used it in over 20 years. It definitely works. I stopped using it because it's a pain to use and not worth it with just normally dirty barrels. For the OP's application, I bet it would work really well.

 

[weatherby]

I was the other guy.....lol

Literally went through hundreds of patches coming out like this.

Stuff came out and came out and finally got down to where It may shoot now.

 

[JohnHL]

I have one of these but haven't used it in over 20 years. It definitely works. I stopped using it because it's a pain to use and not worth it with just normally dirty barrels. For the OP's application, I bet it would work really well.

Thanks, 'boss!

I remember reading (years back) that they did a pretty good job with metallic deposits, but were not very effective on non-metallics (like powder fouling).

John

 

[Jeff423]

Electronic Bore Cleaner

I have one of these but haven't used it in over 20 years. It definitely works. I stopped using it because it's a pain to use and not worth it with just normally dirty barrels. For the OP's application, I bet it would work really well.

Exactly. I've got one and a couple of gallons of lead and copper solutions and it works great, but it is cumbersome.

 

[growr]

If only you had a jar of some mercury......would be like a new barrel again.

Randy

 

[rockquarry]

If only you had a jar of some mercury......would be like a new barrel again.

Randy

Posssibly true, but likely not. In an old barrel, there's often a lot more going on than leading. Old barrels are often not smooth and they have pits, the small salt and pepper kind or the large ones. Such barrels are easily fouled from powder or carbon; both can build up quickly. Bore leading may be the easiest fouling to remove. Your experience with mercury may be extensive, but good quality bronze brushes that fit snugly and a good solvent like Hoppe's will work fine.

 

[Rpg]

If I weren't so environmentally sensitive, I'd suggest use of mercury.

In the old days, you'd plug one end of the barrel then fill it with. mercury and seal it off. Then stick the barrel in the corner and leave it alone for about 2 weeks. Disassemble the barrel plug safely, pour off the mercury, run a couple dry patches and a bronze brush down the barrel.

This is best done outdoors.

 

[smoothshooter]

The dark residue on your patches may be copper fouling.
Just because it is not green does not mean it is not copper.
Could be displaced steel from the bore also.

 

[oldbrownhat]

My old (now deceased) shooting buddy had one of those reverse electro-plating bore cleaners (Outer's "Foul-Out" I think it was called?) that I got from him before he passed....

I recall making a similar unit years ago to clean out a really badly fouled .303 Martini-Henry, after using many dozens of patches. It did work, although the bore was too far gone anyway. I think it had Metford rifling, too.

I have a note from that time about removing lead:

Equal parts white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide.
Soak for 10 mins.​

FWIW, I found an old PDF file from 2004, "Building an Electrolysis Copper Cleaner, by Roy Seifert". It's still online here

And as someone suggested, if you can find Kroil, let it soak in the bore for two or three days. It's expensive but really works well.

 

[SMSgt]

Wrap a few strands of copper from a Chore-Boy scrub pad around a brass brush. Use Chore-Boy brand only. Dip in Hoppes and scrub. It will remove any lead.

 

[Marksman]

When I worked in the gunsmithing department @ Browning Arms I cleaned countless bores of rifles sent in with accuracy complaints using JB Compound. Afterwards most if not all shot within factory specifications. Now I clean my rifles with Boretech Eliminator, they seldom need a JB cleaning.