S&W Archives @UMASS-Amherst - Some serial data, mainly Victory but other stuff too

[RM Vivas]

S&W Archives @UMASS-Amherst - Some serial data, mainly Victory but other stuff too

Today was an interesting day.

In searching for new frontiers to explore I learned that the University of Massachusetts-Amherst has an archive with 15 linear feet of Smith & Wesson records.

A quick review of the finding aid ( Smith and Wesson Company – Special Collections & University Archives ) showed enough things to pique my interest so I made the 90 mile drive and went through perhaps %20 of the collection with an emphasis on my field of interest (NYPD) but with an eye towards things that might interest others.

While the scope of the collection is large, perhaps %80 is devoted to sales and services. Countless letters from people asking about their gun, often with model and serial number.

A fellow could compile quite a list of guns and owners of these records that, a hundred years on from when they were originally written, could add a lot of history to the fellow fortunate to have one of these pieces in their collection.

I found some interesting stuff, but not a great deal relevant to me.

The assortment of various letterheads was intoxicating. People put money into their letterheads back then. Remington, UMC, Abercrombie & Fitch, Daly, Schoverling, Folsom, etc. Gorgeous!

So......

Some samples of what I found:
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A letter discussing how approval had finally been received to start putting 2-inch Victory revolvers together duringWW2.

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A note from Abercrombie & Fitch checking on ca. 1940 Non-Registered Magnum s/n216595. If someone has this gun, it went through Abercrombie & Fitch to have an unspecified issue addressed.

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We've all heard of the experimental S&W revolver in .30 carbine. Here's a couple pages of correspondence on it not being suitable for use by the Green Machine.

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Finally!! Serial number data! Here's a bunch of Victory Models that the Coast Guard returned for repair. The issue was 'split barrels'.
If you have a Victory with a barrel that doesn't quite match maybe it was one of these!

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More serial data! Note the Non-Registered Magnum s/n 62448 as well as some other goodies. These were guns from a Museum display S&W did.

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Missing Victory Case


Yay! More serial number data!! In this case (literally!) a case of guns seems to have gone awry. Anyone have a Victory from this batch?

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This is interesting. Two Schoefields listed by s/n that this fellow wanted refinished. Oh the pain....

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I love this one. Takes big game hunting to a whole new level. Sales Manager at S&W relates a story about how USMC CPT Phil Roettinger used his Magnum to kill a Japanese soldier at 212 paces.
If you do a Wikipedia search you'll see that Roettinger was the type of guy who could pull this off; ten years later he overthrew the Guatemalan government for the CIA.
( Philip Roettinger - Wikipedia )

===============================================

Anyway, there is a lot more I found and a great deal more in those archives.

Best,
RM Vvas

 

[FPrice]

How does one get permission to access these files?

Not sure I'd ever be able to do anything worthwhile with them, but it's always nice to know.

 

[RM Vivas]

How does one get permission to access these files?

Not sure I'd ever be able to do anything worthwhile with them, but it's always nice to know.

One asks!

Seriously, they're open to the public. Just make an appointment and conduct yourself like a gentleman. You don't have to be an 'academic' to play at this table.

Other places may have different requirements.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[kwill1911]

I'm not seeing some of the documents I think you posted but the Reg Mag that Phil R. owned belongs to a forum member in Mexico. There is a long thread about it on the forum.

 

[adowns]

These documents are invaluable, but if they are not indexed in some way finding information you need would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.

But... If anyone can find a needle, R M Vivas can. He helped me with interesting information on a Colt Detective Special I own.

 

[lestert357]

RM Vivas, thank you! The .357 Magnum serial number 62488 listed on the HISTORICAL COLLECTION OF GUNS page is a new and important addition to the S&WCA database. It is one of the very last Non-Registered Magnums and falls between serial number 62485 (Presentation to Lt. Phillip C. Roettinger, USMC) and serial number 62489 (Special Order for Robert Wallswait of West Hartford, CT- Last NRM)!

 

[Modified]

Utterly fantastic, hopefully these records can end up searchable in the SWHF database someday!

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I've done a two day study on all the information at the library. There maybe 2% of interest with serial numbers.

 

[RM Vivas]

I've done a two day study on all the information at the library. There maybe 2% of interest with serial numbers.

I think that's about right.

The S&W advertising folder did have some goodies I'd not seen before, including a beautiful color folder that was quite nice.

My one day journey turned up 75 Victory serial numbers and two Magnums.

Give me one or two other guys who know what they are doing and we could sit down and completely dissect that collection and probably pull a couple hundred s/n's out.

More importantly though, we could find some bread crumbs that may lead elsewhere.

I really think one set of documents in there that may be of interest to -someone- would be the correspondence between S&W and the people who made their pearl grips.

There's a few letters from and to Frank Jonas that are interesting, as well as quite a bit about the South American and Central American trade.

Letters between S&W and sales reps have some interesting stuff, especially as regards 'competition' between S&W and the Prancing Pony folks for police contracts and installing 'their own men' as instructors. Even Fitz is mentioned as getting in on that.

If it could be reasonably priced, the whole thing should be digitized for posterity and access.

If anyone wants to mount a trip there with me (The S&W Expeditionary Force?) to go back there and dissect the whole thing over a day or two, I'd be down for that.

By the way, I tried to get the background on the docs. They came in in 1990 from a rare book dealer named Charles Apfelbaum. There's a fair bit about him on the internet but nothing really S&W specific.

Best,
RM Vivas

 

[opoefc]

The factory trashed a lot of old files when they moved to the new plant after WW2 and that's where old book dealers, etc., retrieved/salvaged old records, etc. These records showed up for sale over time since then. One batch was bought off eBay several yrs ago by members of this Forum and donated to the Springfield Historical Museum's S&W archives. Ed

 

[LOBO]

Thank you sir for taking the time to not only look at the archives, but to also share pictures with us on the forum.

Chris

 

[Club Gun Fan]

I think that's about right.

The S&W advertising folder did have some goodies I'd not seen before, including a beautiful color folder that was quite nice.

My one day journey turned up 75 Victory serial numbers and two Magnums.

Give me one or two other guys who know what they are doing and we could sit down and completely dissect that collection and probably pull a couple hundred s/n's out.

More importantly though, we could find some bread crumbs that may lead elsewhere.

I really think one set of documents in there that may be of interest to -someone- would be the correspondence between S&W and the people who made their pearl grips.

There's a few letters from and to Frank Jonas that are interesting, as well as quite a bit about the South American and Central American trade.

Letters between S&W and sales reps have some interesting stuff, especially as regards 'competition' between S&W and the Prancing Pony folks for police contracts and installing 'their own men' as instructors. Even Fitz is mentioned as getting in on that.

If it could be reasonably priced, the whole thing should be digitized for posterity and access.

If anyone wants to mount a trip there with me (The S&W Expeditionary Force?) to go back there and dissect the whole thing over a day or two, I'd be down for that.

By the way, I tried to get the background on the docs. They came in in 1990 from a rare book dealer named Charles Apfelbaum. There's a fair bit about him on the internet but nothing really S&W specific.

Best,
RM Vivas

Ernie Rice and I went thru the collection, twice. Other then a few pieces, there is nothing in there worth the cost of digitizing. I gave a report to the SWHF Board to that effect Correspondence does make for interesting reading, but that's all.