Electric Vehicle Stupidity - Update Post 288

[johngalt]

The air quality here is now "unhealthy" thanks to the fires in Canada. The soot is thick, hanging over the area like a fog.

It really drives home just how absurd the emission regulations have become. There is probably more pollution in the air right now than all of the cumulative powerplant and car emissions over the last 50 years.

 

[Secundius]

You seem to be missing (or stubbornly ignoring) the point that what worked for THEM will NOT work for everyone.
Most homes DO NOT have an unused 220V/240V circuit already installed and unused in their garage. Do you? I don't. If your kids did, then they got lucky. ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL!

Home AC units typically operate at 220/240-watts…


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[BC38]

I would remind you that at that time, Germany was in a war for survival, so anything goes that might help toward that end.
I would remind you also that Hitler did not mandate that all German transportation would be turbo jet powered in 7 years, nor did our government tell us a hundred years ago that we all had to use Henry Ford products. Both became viable through value considerations of the marketplace.
Our PTB are trying to mandate total EV, no ICE by 2030, without careful analyisis of how that might (or cannot) be accomplished.
Please stop jumping around spouting unrelated anecdotes and give us some hard facts with steps, timetables and costs for the whole conversion process, mine to manufacturing to usage to scrap heap for EVs. I believe we here on this forum are not against the vehicle per se, but are skeptical of its readiness for prime time and resent it being shoved down our throats without honest data to justify that at this time.

Here! Here! Well stated...

 

[biku324]

You seem to be missing (or stubbornly ignoring) the point that what worked for THEM will NOT work for everyone.
Most homes DO NOT have an unused 220V/240V circuit already installed and unused in their garage. Do you? I don't. If your kids did, then they got lucky. ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL!

Well, I have 220 in an RV plug that was there when I bought the house; I plan to use it. The kids had an unused dryer plug in their garage, where an earlier owner replaced the electric dryer with a gas dryer. It seems that now the final EV quibble is about a simple dryer plug.

If you don't want an EV, don't buy one. At the same time, understand that within their limitations, they can work, do work, and have worked in ever-increasing numbers for more than a decade. The EV market made one of the world's richest men that rich.

Belief resists information.

 

[BC38]

It's not mandated for the US Military either! The only vehicles within the US Military to be Electrified are those performing secondary and tertiary roles, of a non combatants (i.e. sedan cars, pickup truck, delivery trucks, etc.)…


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Military considerations aside, the US Government has set a target of no new ICE vehicles by 2035. California is leading the way in this push towards EV's.

THAT is the thing that most of us have issues with - because it isn't technically feasible. That is the fly in the ointment that YOU and those of your persuasion seem to want to ignore.

THE STATED GOAL IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE - yet our overlords have MANDATED that it WILL happen - even though it is impossible!

Remember the story of the Emperor's new clothes? Or was that missing from your education?

 

[BC38]

Well, I have 220 in an RV plug that was there when I bought the house; I plan to use it. The kids had an unused dryer plug in their garage, where an earlier owner replaced the electric dryer with a gas dryer. It seems that now the final EV quibble is about a simple dryer plug.

If you don't want an EV, don't buy one. At the same time, understand that within their limitations, they can work, do work, and have worked in ever-increasing numbers for more than a decade. The EV market made one of the world's richest men that rich.

Belief resists information.

If it were a simple matter of most of us being able to CHOOSE not to buy one, this debate would have died back on page 2.

HOWEVER, when our government has decreed that we won't have a choice in the matter a mere 10 years or so from now, then THAT is a problem.

You have a 220v circuit already in your garage? Well BULLY for you! Most people don't. I don't. The fact is the majority of people don't even OWN a garage for their car - they rent an apartment with a parking slot.

So while the government mandated "one size fits all" solution works just fine for you (and your kids) what about everyone else?

Let them eat cake?

 

[Secundius]

Military considerations aside, the US Government has set a target of no new ICE vehicles by 2035. California is leading the way in this push towards EV's.

THAT is the thing that most of us have issues with - because it isn't technically feasible. That is the fly in the ointment that YOU and those of your persuasion seem to want to ignore.

THE STATED GOAL IS IMPOSSIBLE TO ACHIEVE - yet our overlords have MANDATED that it WILL happen - even though it is impossible!

Remember the story of the Emperor's new clothes? Or was that missing from your education?

The mandated goal in California is for New Cars built in 2035 and afterward, not on existing cars that already operate within the state…


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[Secundius]

If it were a simple matter of most of us being able to CHOOSE not to buy one, this debate would have died back on page 2.
HOWEVER, when our government has decreed that we won't have a choice in the matter a mere 10 years or so from now, then THAT is a problem.
You have a 220v circuit already in your garage? Well BULLY for you! Most people don't. In fact most people don't OWN a garage - they rent an apartment with a parking slot. So while the government mandated "one size fits all" solution works just fine for you (and your kids) what about everyone else?
Let them eat cake?

Is you oven or stove gas or electric! If Electric than you have a 240-volt power source on your property! As for apartments, that between you and your apartment management to work out…


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[BC38]

The mandated goal in California is for New Cars built in 2035 and afterward, not on existing cars that already operate within the state…


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Exactly. So beginning in 2035 the only NEW car Califorinians will be able to buy are EV's. Buying a brand new ICE vehicle will no longer be an option. And you have no problem with that constraint on people's freedom of choice - or the impact it will have on people who aren't rich enough to afford an EV?

 

[biku324]

If it were a simple matter of most of us being able to CHOOSE not to buy one, this debate would have died back on page 2.

HOWEVER, when our government has decreed that we won't have a choice in the matter a mere 10 years or so from now, then THAT is a problem.

You have a 220v circuit already in your garage? Well BULLY for you! Most people don't. I don't. The fact is the majority of people don't even OWN a garage for their car - they rent an apartment with a parking slot.

So while the government mandated "one size fits all" solution works just fine for you (and your kids) what about everyone else?

Let them eat cake?

Sorry - I don't own a garage.

If the cake is chocolate it may have a bit too much caffeine and could exacerbate arguments.

 

[BC38]

Is you oven or stove gas or electric! If Electric than you have a 240-volt power source on your property! As for apartments, that between you and your apartment management to work out…


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Dude! Do you even understand the difference between a 120v circuit and a 240v circuit?
Yes, it is true that if your breaker panel is wired for 2 or more 120v power phases, then you CAN install a 240v circuit. Assuming that your breaker panel is set up for it.
But that doesn't mean you just magically have a 240v circuit available. That kind of circuit has to be WIRED and INSTALLED.

It can't just be "replicated" out of thin air, and that kind of installation costs MONEY. Like $1000-$2000 of cold hard cash.
You really have no clue about the real world do you?

 

[BC38]

Sorry - I don't own a garage.

If the cake is chocolate it may have a bit too much caffeine and could exacerbate arguments.

Yeah, once again, no logical arguments, so default to snark.
That adds a lot to the debate.

My argument is give the people a CHOICE. Rather than forcing a "one size fits all" solution (that really doesn't fit us all) down our throats. You on the other hand seem to be all for using the power of the government to force us all to accept what they mandate as being "for our own good".

 

[Secundius]

Dude! Do you even understand the difference between a 120v circuit and a 240v circuit?
Yes, it is true that if your breaker panel is wired for 2 or more 120v power phases, then you CAN install a 240v circuit. Assuming that your breaker panel is set up for it.
But that doesn't mean you just magically have a 240v circuit available. That kind of circuit has to be WIRED and INSTALLED.

It can't just be "replicated" out of thin air, and that kind of installation costs MONEY. Like $1000-$2000 of cold hard cash.
You really have no clue about the real world do you?

If you have Central AC in your home, or and Electric Furnace or electric Range/Oven in your home, than you have a dedicated 220/240-volt power system running in your house, whether you decide to use it or not…


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[BC38]

If you have Central AC in your home, or and Electric Furnace or electric Range/Oven in your home, than you have a dedicated 220/240-volt power system running in your house, whether you decide to use it or not…


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OK, so since you seem so knowledgeable about electrical power, please explain to all of us what it takes to get a 240V circuit in the average, ordinary home that is wired for 120v. And further, please also explain how the fact that such a home that already has a 240v circuit can add another at little or no cost.

What exactly is this 240v "dedicated power system" you speak of, and what does it take to expand it to include an EV charging station - without the use of "3D printing replication" of course?

This should be entertaining...

 

[Grayfox]

It seems that a whole new issue has come to light. I saw this on the evening news. Batteries are heavy! EVs are as much as several thousand pounds heavier than ICE vehicles. So when they are involved in an accident, more weight means more damage and a much higher likelihood of serious injury. Especially to the other vehicle.

Story Here

 

[BC38]

It seems that a whole new issue has come to light. I saw this on the evening news. Batteries are heavy! EVs are as much as several thousand pounds heavier than ICE vehicles. So when they are involved in an accident, more weight means more damage and a much higher likelihood of serious injury. Especially to the other vehicle.

Story Here

No problem. I LOVE my EV - let them eat cake!

 

[Secundius]

OK, so since you seem so knowledgeable about electrical power, please explain to all of us what it takes to get a 240V circuit in the average, ordinary home that is wired for 120v. And further, please also explain how the fact that such a home that already has a 240v circuit can add another at little or no cost.

What exactly is this 240v "dedicated power system" you speak of, and what does it take to expand it to include an EV charging station - without the use of "3D printing replication" of course?

This should be entertaining...

In your neighborhood, we're all the houses constructed their built around the same time, where or not their using Gas or Electric!/? Then it's likely you have a 220/240-volt electrical supply in your house whether you know it or not…


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[BC38]

Home AC units typically operate at 220/240-watts…


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"220/240 WATTS" - REALLY? Forgive me for pointing out that your complete and total IGNORANCE of this topic is showing...

Do you even know what a WATT is?

FWIW a typical home AC unit operates on 220-240 VOLTS, and volts and Watts aren't the same thing - not even close...

 

[BC38]

In your neighborhood, we're all the houses constructed their built around the same time, where or not their using Gas or Electric!/? Then it's likely you have a 220/240-volt electrical supply in your house whether you know it or not…


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Again, please explain to all of us what a 220/240-volt electrical supply is and how it works. Otherwise you are just spouting nonsense that you read somewhere...

It isn't a matter of whether or not your electrical service installation is capable of 220v/240v service - it is a matter of whether or not you have the spare 220v-240v CIRCUIT installed and available for use - or whether you would have to HAVE that circuit installed to charge your EV....

You continue to spout nonsense in support of EV's and the more you post the clearer it becomes that you really have no clue.

FWIW, my neighborhood was built in the late 1970's (the electrical permit for my home is dated 1977). Yes, I have a 240v circuit for my clothes dryer, and another for my HVAC unit. BUT, I don't have any "extra" unused 240v circuits already installed that I could use to connect an EV charger. The only way to get another 240v circuit for an EV charger would be to INSTALL one.

To install an EV charger would require installing an ADDITIONAL 240v circuit. At a cost of a couple of thousand dollars - and that is assuming that there is space in my existing breaker panel to add another 240v circuit. If not, then the price to install another sub-panel for the EV charger circuit would add another $500 or so to the total cost.

As a service manager for an electrical contracting company I did this kind of estimating for a living for 3+ years after I retired from my first career. People seem to think this stuff is simple, straightforward, and easy. But I can tell you from experience that is just ain't so. Retrofitting these kinds of things to existing buildings is never simple, cheap, or easy. It costs real money!

 

[Secundius]

Again, please explain to all of us what a 220/240-volt electrical supply is and how it works. Otherwise you are just spouting nonsense that you read somewhere...

It isn't a matter of whether or not your electrical service installation is capable of 220v/240v service - it is a matter of whether or not you have the spare 220v-240v CIRCUIT installed and available for use - or whether you would have to HAVE that circuit installed to charge your EV....

You continue to spout nonsense in support of EV's and the more you post the clearer it becomes that you really have no clue.

FWIW, my neighborhood was built in the late 1970's (the electrical permit for my home is dated 1977). Yes, I have a 240v circuit for my clothes dryer, and another for my HVAC unit. BUT, I don't have any "extra" unused 240v circuits already installed that I could use to connect an EV charger. The only way to get another 240v circuit for an EV charger would be to INSTALL one.

To install an EV charger would require installing an ADDITIONAL 240v circuit. At a cost of a couple of thousand dollars - and that is assuming that there is space in my existing breaker panel to add another 240v circuit. If not, then the price to install another sub-panel for the EV charger circuit would add another $500 or so to the total cost.

As a service manager for an electrical contracting company I did this kind of estimating for a living for 3+ years after I retired from my first career. People seem to think this stuff is simple straightforward, and easy, but I can tell you from experience that is just ain't so. Retrofitting these kinds of things to existing buildings is never simple, cheap, or easy.

And your Dryer and HVAC operate on two different 220/240-volt power lines coming in from the street or are they operating from the same voltage line?/! If there operating from the same line, than you also have a means of charging your car…


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