What do you think?

[SGT ROCK 11B]

Your question got me wondering about this.

So with Google being my friend I landed on a YouTube video from USCCA where they gave an 11 question interview sheet to inmates who had robbed people.

We don't know if the answers are truthful or not but it indicated that 41% of those surveyed said they had disarmed an armed person during a robbery.

I am a retired cop. I talk to "bad guys" and they say they size people up. They know who they can take and who they can't. Lots of good people have a firearm but they don't have the "grit" to kill another person.

I took a Radio Call at a Construction Site where the armed security guard was beat up and disarmed. He begged for his life and he was spared.

Another RC, the gang member ambushed the armed guard sitting in his Security vehicle, killing him. They stole his revolver, shotgun and a few dollars from his wallet.

 

[RobertJ.]

Here's a link to something that happened in Houston four years ago. A female police officer was relieved of her gun by a couple of bad guys. Thankfully, she wasn't hurt, and her gun was eventually found.

My question is: How in the world can anyone think that if bad guys will do this to a cop, they won't do this to the average Joe who happens to be open carrying?
VIDEO: Suspect disarms Houston police officer, holds her at gunpoint during robbery at Verizon store - ABC7 Los Angeles

The choice to CC or OC is each of ours. I choose to keep the element of surprise.

 

[Rustyt1953]

 

[RobertJ.]

I'm not sure I'd openly carry a banjo.

I've heard that if you forget your disabled placard for your car, a banjo left on the front seat will suffice.

 

[Rustyt1953]

In summation...

 

[Muss Muggins]

The average Joe is not a uniformed security guard between Criminal Joe and that which Criminal Joe wishes to steal . . .

Here's a link to something that happened in Houston four years ago. A female police officer was relieved of her gun by a couple of bad guys. Thankfully, she wasn't hurt, and her gun was eventually found.

My question is: How in the world can anyone think that if bad guys will do this to a cop, they won't do this to the average Joe who happens to be open carrying?
VIDEO: Suspect disarms Houston police officer, holds her at gunpoint during robbery at Verizon store - ABC7 Los Angeles

The choice to CC or OC is each of ours. I choose to keep the element of surprise.

 

[diyj98]

I normally don't comment on the open carry posts because I've seen it get ugly on several forums. The one defending open carry seem to get enraged with anyone that doesn't believe as they do. "Show me ONE case where open carry got someone shot", etc. I'd never open carry, but here's a link with some info of times when it didn't pan out.

Five Real-Life Cases That Show the Complexities of Open Carry - Athlon Outdoors

 

[Muss Muggins]

Case 1: Originally carrying concealed legally, accidentally exposed, snatched, got shot . . .

Case 2: Open carry, snatched, got shot . . .

Case 3: Carried open illegally, not snatched, did not get shot, convicted of murder . . .

Case 4: Open carried legally, did not get snatched, falsely accused, did not get shot, eventually exonerated . . .

Case 5: Openly carried legally, did not get snatched, confronted a trespasser, did not get shot, falsely accused, eventually exonerated . . .

I'll give you this. You showed one case . . .

I normally don't comment on the open carry posts because I've seen it get ugly on several forums. "Show me ONE case where open carry got someone shot", etc. I'd never open carry, but here's a link with some info of times when it didn't pan out.

Five Real-Life Cases That Show the Complexities of Open Carry - Athlon Outdoors

 

[diyj98]

I'll give you this. You showed one case . . .

You don't have to give me anything. I just posted a link to an article.

 

[tmd17]

Here's a link... A female police officer was relieved of her gun by a couple of bad guys. ...


VIDEO: Suspect disarms Houston police officer, holds her at gunpoint during robbery at Verizon store - ABC7 Los Angeles

...

Evidence that female officers should not be allowed to carry? Or maybe they should carry concealed?

Or maybe it is another statistically insignificant event.

About the only thing I am certain of when it comes to open carry -vs - conceal carry is that no one on a gun forum changes his carry method base on comments in a thread like this one.

 

[RobertJ.]

Evidence that female officers should not be allowed to carry? Or maybe they should carry concealed?

Or maybe it is another statistically insignificant event.

About the only thing I am certain of when it comes to open carry -vs - conceal carry is that no one on a gun forum changes his carry method base on comments in a thread like this one.

I posted that link to show that if thugs are willing to disarm a police officer, they'll certainly be willing to disarm any citizen who's open carrying their weapon.

I'm aware that nobody's mind or carry habits will change because of threads like this one. That's okay. I really don't care what others do or don't do.

But I like asking questions that make people think, and I can always tell when I've struck a nerve.

So here's a challenge to all those who OC:

Take a piece of paper, and make two columns. Column A and Column B. In Column A list all the reasons OC is a good idea. In Column B list all the reasons it's a bad idea. If you're truly honest with yourself, I'll bet that nobody's Column A is the longer of the two.

And if it is, let us have a look.

 

[BSA1]

I posted that link to show that if thugs are willing to disarm a police officer, they'll certainly be willing to disarm any citizen who's open carrying their weapon.

I'm aware that nobody's mind or carry habits will change because of threads like this one. That's okay. I really don't care what others do or don't do.

But I like asking questions that make people think, and I can always tell when I've struck a nerve.

So here's a challenge to all those who OC:

Take a piece of paper, and make two columns. Column A and Column B. In Column A list all the reasons OC is a good idea. In Column B list all the reasons it's a bad idea. If you're truly honest with yourself, I'll bet that nobody's Column A is the longer of the two.

And if it is, let us have a look.

You go first.

List the reasons in Column A why Conceal Carry is a good idea.

List the reasons in Column B why Conceal Carry is a bad idea.

For someone that claims “I really don’t care what others do or don’t do” you are showing how biased you really are as you believe CC is the superior method.

 

[Smoke]

Or maybe it is another statistically insignificant event.

I've had people try to take my gun off me at work. I'm positive it was a statistically insignificant event. I don't know another security guard that it ever happened to not in real life I've read about it on the internet.

It didn't feel "statistically insignificant" to me

For someone that claims “I really don’t care what others do or don’t do” you are showing how biased you really are as you believe CC is the superior method.

Those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

I absolutely believe that concealed carry is the superior method.

I also absolutely could not care less how you carry your handgun.

 

[BC38]

I posted that link to show that if thugs are willing to disarm a police officer, they'll certainly be willing to disarm any citizen who's open carrying their weapon.

I'm aware that nobody's mind or carry habits will change because of threads like this one. That's okay. I really don't care what others do or don't do.

But I like asking questions that make people think, and I can always tell when I've struck a nerve.

So here's a challenge to all those who OC:

Take a piece of paper, and make two columns. Column A and Column B. In Column A list all the reasons OC is a good idea. In Column B list all the reasons it's a bad idea. If you're truly honest with yourself, I'll bet that nobody's Column A is the longer of the two.

And if it is, let us have a look.

AHHH, yes, the old "Ben Franklin close".
Learned that one when I was in sales years ago.
Have the decision maker list pros & cons and decide on that basis.
Of course when trying to make a sale, the salesman helps with listing pros for making the purchase and cons against not making the purchase, but leaves the purchaser on their own to come up with the cons of purchasing and the pros of not making the purchase.
FWIW, it is still a good and valid decision-making technique - advocated by Benjamin Franklin. Old Ben was a pretty smart guy.

 

[RobertJ.]

You go first.

This is akin to answering a question with a question, a tactic of someone with no answer.

For someone that claims “I really don’t care what others do or don’t do” you are showing how biased you really are as you believe CC is the superior method.

I never stated I wasn't biased. I do believe CC to be better than OC. And, I find a spirited debate to be highly entertaining.

I just don't care what someone else does.

And I have made a list. I just can't find one single reason that would fit in Column A.

 

[Smoke]

I don't know how to post YouTube videos on this forum but this is a video of a cop in Detroit being attacked for his gun. If you listen to the entire news story apparently they got the gun away from the cop and he got it back. The police are still looking for the two attackers and have discussed it with their parents, which leads me to assume they're juveniles? Anyway, if they'll attack a cop do you really think they'll hesitate to attack you?

Detroit cop fights off two men trying to steal his gun at gas station - YouTube

 

[jkmo]

32 years in LE. I can see this in a seedy area late at night. They won’t even approach. Yeh, best to avoid but stuff happens.if you’re concealed and they approach the situation is escalated

 

[Shibadog]

Maybe me, but open carry in town seems like carrying a “shoot me first” sign. I was a firefighter for years. We made a habit of not wearing the uniform when not actually working, on the theory that if you happen into the local stop n rob at the wrong time a goblin’s not going to take time to read the badge, he’ll shoot the uniform. In the toolies, yea, open carry all the time, usually a much larger weapon than my edc. In what passes for civilization I prefer to be invisible.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Survivorship Bias

Well, people who are not comfortable with open carry have chosen to comment in this thread. That’s what is known in statistics as a self selected survey. You see the topic, and you comment. Nobody reached out to you randomly. People who self self select survey responses are generally 100% biased one way or the other. . .

I could comment, but my comment would be meaningless in light of my response. . .

This topic is inherently susceptible to survivorship bias, especially since successful deterrence is unreported invariably, necessarily. (I remember when a spokesman for the Joint Chiefs stated, "We know of no instance where the enemy has successfully used camouflage against us.") Well, of course not, y' know?

As to victim selection, it is a very complicated subject in criminology. It is conceivable that a person who might be targeted because of his emotional vulnerability and other factors, may not be able to mask that vulnerability by carrying openly and may even make the situation worse. However, the suggestion that this same wimpy person would be safer or protected by covering his weapon is simply not true.

I am NOT the expert! For an excellent insight into all such matters check out Marc McYoung's website, nononsenseselfdefense.com. He shows you how it all really works. There is a lot of information and he comes across as a know-it-all, but if you give him a chance, he will give you what he gives police departments when he trains them! Don't visit him if you think your martial arts system is beyond correction...

 

[brendonjames65]

Situational awareness trumps everything IMO but that aside, in general I feel it more prudent to lawfully carry concealed in an urban setting, however for those that desire to lawfully open carry, get training in weapons retention, defensive tactics, martial arts and maintain a good level of fitness.

There have been numerous instances with my former agency where suspects attempted to take away the uniformed deputies duty pistol. One of my former patrol trainees, who successfully completed his patrol training and was later assigned to rural patrol, had his duty pistol taken away and was murdered with it.