Model19man
Member
I have an N Frame S&W 45 ACP and a Colt New Service. The N frame Smith is heavier than the Colt New Service. Have you measured the weight of each?
1917's: S&W vs. Colt
- Thread starter sodacan
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Is the N frame 45 ACP a 1917? If it’s a model 1950 Target it has an additional 1 1/2” of barrel, if it’s a model 1955 or later it also has a heavy barrel.
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If this doughboy was issued a Colt, perhaps that's why he modified this M-1916 holster for a 1911 to carry it...
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I had a Colt 1917 back in my 20s. Of course I took it apart. I was not impressed by the little V springs etc nor the skinny unprotected ejector rod sticking out under the barrel. Trade it off on something better and never owned another pony. S&W are a better, simpler design and not as clutz looking.
StrawHat
Member
Jim Watson
Member
I have read about those bored through Colts for decades, but you are the first owner I have heard from. They must have been very thorough updating them with throated cylinders.
Kind of like the scarcity of 1903 and 1905 configuration Springfield rifles.
OFT II
US Veteran
I've had one Colt that was bored through. The serial number was in the 20,000 range. It's the only one that I've seen.
By the way, the holster in post 43 is 1912 holster, not a 1916.
By the way, the holster in post 43 is 1912 holster, not a 1916.
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Model19man
Member
It's a Model 1955 shipped in 1979 so it has a 6" barrel. The Colt New Service has an 8" barrel. So the Colt barrel is 2" longer.
Model19man
Member
Hmm try again.....
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StrawHat
Member
Thank you. Yep, bog standard Model 1955. How much lighter is it than the Colt? I don’t know Colt’s at all, but it must be a lightly built revolver to have two more inches of barrel and weigh less.
Kevin
I lived in Canada most of my younger days. All the gun shows were operated by collector's associations, so they had a different feel to them than American shows.
Of all the big bore revolvers, S&W 1st & 2nd model Hand Ejectors and the different variations of the Colt New Service, overwhelmingly in .455 caliber, were the most popular. These, of course, roughly correspond to their US M1917 counterparts. The various break-open British revolvers (mostly Webleys) were less common, but well liked.
I don't recall in Canada ever seeing any of these converted to 45 ACP, while here in the U.S. it's hard to avoid them!
I've never owned any of the Colts. But, they were held in very high regard for their ruggedness. Perhaps this was because of their long service history with the RCMP and NWMP?
I would agree that the Colt US M1917 was often roughly finished. The standard New Service was generally better finished. The New Service Target, being a commercial model, was better yet. And, the Colt Shooting Master, was the very best.
In Canada, .455 ammunition stayed in production right through the 1970s, by CIL Dominion. You could buy loaded ammo, primed or unprimed brass, and even the hollow base lead bullets.
They were always sold in boxes of 50, neatly packed in a plastic tray inside a cardboard box, even the bullets. As I recall, the boxes were marked ".455 Colt".
That's another indicator of the popularity of the Colt revolver in Canada. In any case, it's probably worth considering this before casting contemporary views retroactively upon earlier eras or different places.
This is a very interesting thread. You guys have some great photos posted of very nice revolvers!
Of all the big bore revolvers, S&W 1st & 2nd model Hand Ejectors and the different variations of the Colt New Service, overwhelmingly in .455 caliber, were the most popular. These, of course, roughly correspond to their US M1917 counterparts. The various break-open British revolvers (mostly Webleys) were less common, but well liked.
I don't recall in Canada ever seeing any of these converted to 45 ACP, while here in the U.S. it's hard to avoid them!
I've never owned any of the Colts. But, they were held in very high regard for their ruggedness. Perhaps this was because of their long service history with the RCMP and NWMP?
I would agree that the Colt US M1917 was often roughly finished. The standard New Service was generally better finished. The New Service Target, being a commercial model, was better yet. And, the Colt Shooting Master, was the very best.
In Canada, .455 ammunition stayed in production right through the 1970s, by CIL Dominion. You could buy loaded ammo, primed or unprimed brass, and even the hollow base lead bullets.
They were always sold in boxes of 50, neatly packed in a plastic tray inside a cardboard box, even the bullets. As I recall, the boxes were marked ".455 Colt".
That's another indicator of the popularity of the Colt revolver in Canada. In any case, it's probably worth considering this before casting contemporary views retroactively upon earlier eras or different places.
This is a very interesting thread. You guys have some great photos posted of very nice revolvers!
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Comparing a 1917 S&W to a 1917 Colt, the Colt is about 2 ounces heavier.
My dad had a 1917 45acp in early W-2 1942 while guarding Pensacola Army Air Corp. In the 8th then shipped to England with the B-17's. They lost the most men out of all the service branch's. ( 1 out of 4 died). Mom was a war bride and came to the states in 1946,God Bless the great generation.
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This one was made using a 1917 frame, a cut down 1950 barrel, a 44 mag cylinder reamed to 45 colt and recessed for acp in moon clips, adj sights added and the grip frame was cut down. I doubt it weighs more than a Colt
The original serial number is still there and never left the gun. One cut, modify, weld, cut, modify, weld at a time.
The original serial number is still there and never left the gun. One cut, modify, weld, cut, modify, weld at a time.
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This is an article from American Rifleman on the S&W Government takeover: A Look Back At The Smith & Wesson Model 1917 | An Official Journal Of The NRA
firebreather
Member
I've only owned one true Model of 1917 S&W, I traded a fellow I knew some car parts for it (I was working at a parts store at the time) in 1978. It was in excellent condition and shot very well. I went work on the local PD in '79 and we had to provide our own guns and they required either a .38spl or .357mag for duty carry so I had to trade it off, major regret there. I bought a 1937 Brazilian contract gun a few years ago worth the money that had a known timing issue. A buddy of mine's son was going thru gunsmith school and begged me to sell it to him as a school project gun and I reluctantly did thinking to buy it back from him, he sold it to the teacher.
Having worked in several gun/pawn shops thru the years I've never seen a 1917 S&W with a dented barrel, I have seen a few with bulged barrels tho. I have seen more than a couple of 1917 Colt's with bent extractor rods that hindered the guns use, also seen a couple of early Colt Lawman revolvers with the same problem.
Having shot S&W's almost my whole life the grip frame of a Colt DA revolver is alien and uncomfortable to me, they are quite a bit different. That and the ejector rod problem makes me shy away from the Colt's but I'm looking for another S&W 1917 as I write this.
Having worked in several gun/pawn shops thru the years I've never seen a 1917 S&W with a dented barrel, I have seen a few with bulged barrels tho. I have seen more than a couple of 1917 Colt's with bent extractor rods that hindered the guns use, also seen a couple of early Colt Lawman revolvers with the same problem.
Having shot S&W's almost my whole life the grip frame of a Colt DA revolver is alien and uncomfortable to me, they are quite a bit different. That and the ejector rod problem makes me shy away from the Colt's but I'm looking for another S&W 1917 as I write this.
Love the S&W handling characteristics amd lock work.
But after javing delt with both S&W and Colt 1917 and New Service I have to say beyond a doubt the Colt has shot tighter groups in all the guns I have owned and others .
When it comes to 1917 revolvers S&W was cutting cylinder throats for the 45/70 !!!!!!!
I have measured the throats of multiple S&W 1917 amd they were all in the .455-.460 range.
I would get keyholes at 25 yards with most ammo ,,from FMJ to cast 200-250 grain bullets.
But with the Colt both 45 acp amd 45 Colt I can shoot just as tight of groups as I can with my 1970- 1980 S&Ws
Where as the 1917 S&W groups would be better described as patterns of 5-12”
The colt will easily shoot sub 3” groups with some groups closer to 2”
I better shooter would likely do much better .
Amd this is with all 1917’s
The Colts always shoot better.
But after javing delt with both S&W and Colt 1917 and New Service I have to say beyond a doubt the Colt has shot tighter groups in all the guns I have owned and others .
When it comes to 1917 revolvers S&W was cutting cylinder throats for the 45/70 !!!!!!!
I have measured the throats of multiple S&W 1917 amd they were all in the .455-.460 range.
I would get keyholes at 25 yards with most ammo ,,from FMJ to cast 200-250 grain bullets.
But with the Colt both 45 acp amd 45 Colt I can shoot just as tight of groups as I can with my 1970- 1980 S&Ws
Where as the 1917 S&W groups would be better described as patterns of 5-12”
The colt will easily shoot sub 3” groups with some groups closer to 2”
I better shooter would likely do much better .
Amd this is with all 1917’s
The Colts always shoot better.
My New Service was $300 on GB. Arsenal refinish, .455 Webley, still has some of Brit the arsenal marks visible. Replacement grips, no pitting in the bore, a shooter that locks up like a bank vault. I found a mold-maker from Slovenia, original hollow base config bullet. 4.7 gr Unique in Starline brass. Just under 700 FPS and unearthly accurate. All it needed was a T-grip to make it shootable.
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Thx for sharing that article. Several inaccuracies especially regarding the British .455 service revolvers but by and large a general historical sense of what transpired. Just don’t quote the production volumes. And a glaring wrong fact about the .455s is they had premium commercial Circassian walnut grips with gold plated brass S&W medallions, not plain smooth military grips like the 1917.
I have had both Colts and Smith's. I am a big Colt guy, but I love S&W also. As a general rule, I have found Smith's have a better double action pull while Colt's a better single action. This was true for all of mine since the Smith 44 Double action First Model. As far as the triple lock strenth goes, it is very strong lock up but the Colt catches up with reversing cylinder rotation and it's "bank vault" lock up ( the hand re-engages when the trigger is pulled eliminating cylinder movement). I have a U.S. Property marked new service in 45 Colt made at the end of the run in 1942. I have consistently shot bowling pins at 125 yards with with light cowboy loads (yes, I had to figure out the holdover
). Phenomenal piece. Anyway, both of these models are awesome shootable pieces of history. Congrats to anyone who has one to enjoy.
). Phenomenal piece. Anyway, both of these models are awesome shootable pieces of history. Congrats to anyone who has one to enjoy.Similar threads
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