This is just me, but I would not own a gun that has been holstered, would also not want a trigger job, and would not own a a model later than a 27 - 2. That's when the value drops.
If you just want a cheap shooter go for it.
Advice on a Model 27 purchase
- Thread starter Mstorm
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This is just me, but I would not own a gun that has been holstered, would also not want a trigger job, and would not own a a model later than a 27 - 2. That's when the value drops.
If you just want a cheap shooter go for it.
One more question --tonight I read an article by an ex-border patrol officer that was recommending 110 grain 357 (claimed his peers loved the stuff for its lower recoil and saw it as a bridge between hot 38s and full bore 357 loads. Apparently Winchester makes a 357 110gr going only 1295 with 410 foot pounds. And Remington makes a 357 110g also going 1295 with 410 foot pound. And finally Remington Golden Saber 125g is only going 1220 with 413 foot pounds. I always thought lighter bullet going slower means less recoil--if so then wouldn't these be fairly mild---any thoughts guys???????
cadmike
Member
Funny how so many on this forum will lust after a 624 or 625, but then see a 27-3 without a barrel pin and poo poo it as undesirable or entry level and suggest making some low ball offer. My favorite is "might make a great shooter" lol, ya think?
I wonder what these folks would say about a 24-3?
A decent 6 inch 27-3 for 900… I would be a buyer.
I wonder what these folks would say about a 24-3?
A decent 6 inch 27-3 for 900… I would be a buyer.
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Oh come-on...If I can reload, anybody can reload. It's not hard, and even with the cost of components today, it's still less expensive than buying factory ammo (especially 38/357) unless you're only planning on shooting a few rounds once in a while. I started off with a $9.95 cent Lee Loader about 45 years ago, and while I've advanced a little past that stage now, I'm not much past it. And Lee still makes the Lee Loader if you wanted to give it a try on the really cheap (but really slow).
Heck, pick up a Lee Loader for 38's/357 and give it try. If you like it, you can upgrade. If you don't, you're not out of much. I think they're 40-50 bucks these days and you can actually do everything with the stuff in the kit. They're slow, but it's actually fun. There are a few small tools that make it easier, but all you really NEED is in the kit. I must have put up thousands of 38 wadcutters back in the day using nothing more than that little kit. I've still got mine even today.
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Having fired a fair number of the 110 grain Magnum load, it does impart a less felt recoil than full power 125 grain loads. One thing about such light bullets is that they are likely to expand quickly, but they tend to have less penetration due to their light weight. They actually came about during the 1960's when 357 Magnum hollow point bullets were 158 grains and notorious for failing to expand when used for self-defense and law enforcement purposes. Lee Jurras, owner of Super Vel, came up with the solution of a very light weight bullet that could be pushed to higher velocity where expansion would be more reliable.
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In an alloy .357 J frame, a 110 gr bullet may be the way to go in some situations. But if you are talking N frame by far the most proven effective load for defense is any of the full 125 gr JHP loads. They are hard on any J and K frames but an L or N frame will soak them up indefinitely.
Here is one of (many) threads on the topic:
357 magnum defensive ammo
bluetopper
Member
I loaded up last night a bunch of 357, 148gr copper coated double end wadcutters exactly half way between 38 and 357 max pressure. Love shooting those things.
GypsmJim
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I think I said the exact same thing a few days ago in another thread. I calculated that for $94 you could currently buy a Lee Loader plus a minimum amount of components (not including brass).
As far as "slow", with some practice and a regimented approach, it ain't THAT slow. As I recall I could load 50 38's in the same time I load 100 on a single stage press. In any event, the quality of the ammo is the same.
And as a bonus, that I forgot to mention, it will all fit in an average desk drawer with room to spare.
I'm going to have four 5" 357's on my tables this week end. Blue 27-2, nickel 27-2 and two blue 5 screws, one of which has non-relieved targets. Then there will be a 6" 5 screw with original box. Kinda' thinning out the 357's in the group. Ya'll come on down to the fair grounds. Bring money
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Wow, if it's not a pristine NIB P&R example, I guess it's just another "cheap shooter." Very glad I'm able to enjoy all my cheap shooters.
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Doug M.
Member
I'm not the only one. That was an expression of a value set so far from my understanding it might as well have been in Martian. What use is a handgun that is not in a holster on your person?
Model19man
Member
A lighter bullet going slower also would have less effect on the target. Not sure that would be a good thing.
austintexas
Member
In your shoes I would buy It. It will increase in value and you can move it on when you find the -2 . The post 27 etc, dashes shoot just as good as an earlier pistol. I have (since I'm a Smith nut) all barrel length and finish 27's, they are all 5 screw except the 4 inchers. I bought the -3's in 4 inch nickel and blue as hole fillers. I paid $5-$6 hundred and wouldn't sell them for the price you are for the -3. I have a friend that has a very nice nickel 6" -2 for sale and he is asking $1500. If, after you buy it, after you shoot it you'll find the dashes don't make that much difference. As to light 357s, Just buy 38 +p, and if you use it as house gun with 357s you'll never notice the difference if you have to use it in and emergency.
SWCA 892
PS, about grips, go to Magna for smaller grips or there are a bunch of grip makers to get what you want. A note: I put Houge rubbers on my M-29 .44 magnums, makes them much easier to shoot, especially full house loads.
PS, I'm older than you are.
SWCA 892
PS, about grips, go to Magna for smaller grips or there are a bunch of grip makers to get what you want. A note: I put Houge rubbers on my M-29 .44 magnums, makes them much easier to shoot, especially full house loads.
PS, I'm older than you are.
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Hair Trigger
US Veteran
If you desire the P&R features, then hold out for them. M27-2's were made from 1961 to 1982 so there are lots of those guns available and will be very much more affordable than the earlier guns. P&R is a feature I look for and is all I own. Recessed chambers are only on the magnum calibers, BTW, but all S&W revolvers had pinned barrels until 1982.
125 grain loads have more energy than 158 out to around 20 yards or so because of their higher muzzle velocity. Beyond that they lose velocity quickly and heavier bullets retain energy longer and further.
One thing to consider about the 110 and 125 bullets is increased flame cutting of the top strap (plus the increased possibility of forcing cone cracking on K frames). The 110 and 125 bullets are shorter than 158 and heavier bullets; when fired, the back end of the bullet passes the B/C gap before most powders have completely burned, and the flame is intense and hot enough to score the underneath side of the top strap at the forcing cone. It's unlikely over the life of the gun that enough rounds would significantly weaken the top strap from flame cutting (I've never heard of a failure from it), but it is a form of damage that I'd rather avoid on a nice revolver.
Hair Trigger - that was great information. This past weekend I bought a 67-1 at an auction (via only pictures) and was perplexed by why I saw that it was clearly a pinned barrel and yet no recessed cylinders--thanks to you now I know why--because its not a Magnum
Also interesting info on the 110s and 125s---I'll likely be shooting 8 to 1 ratios between 38 special and 357s but both guns will be older K-frames so whatever damage the flame thing might do would likely be limited. That said, I will defininately keep that in mind --WHICH of the heavier COMMERCIAL 357's would you then recommend that might still be on the "whimpier" end of the spectrum for the range and also for the K's--I am in total agreement that for "protect the house" duty a hotter magnum would be fine as the stress of such a moment would make recoil a non-issue (I'd likely still use +P 38 for those events that one hopes never happens). When I get the 27 N-frame most of these recoil questions will fall away with the gun's extra mass. So all of my 357 ammo questions centered around what do use with my K-frames (my 19-3 and model 13).
So again, if you wanted to be nice to an older K-frame and wanted a "grandpa like" round and wanted it to be a commercial round what would you select???????
Also interesting info on the 110s and 125s---I'll likely be shooting 8 to 1 ratios between 38 special and 357s but both guns will be older K-frames so whatever damage the flame thing might do would likely be limited. That said, I will defininately keep that in mind --WHICH of the heavier COMMERCIAL 357's would you then recommend that might still be on the "whimpier" end of the spectrum for the range and also for the K's--I am in total agreement that for "protect the house" duty a hotter magnum would be fine as the stress of such a moment would make recoil a non-issue (I'd likely still use +P 38 for those events that one hopes never happens). When I get the 27 N-frame most of these recoil questions will fall away with the gun's extra mass. So all of my 357 ammo questions centered around what do use with my K-frames (my 19-3 and model 13).
So again, if you wanted to be nice to an older K-frame and wanted a "grandpa like" round and wanted it to be a commercial round what would you select???????
You might want to take a look at Cowboy Action .357 Magnum ammo. You can find it online from Black Hills, HSM, and others in 125g and 158g, and it's a softer shooting .357 Magnum ammo.
Yup, I've definitely considered the Black Hills version (I love their 308 match ammo) but after speaking with the Black Hills folks they did say it is dirtier than their other 357 stuff, but that just means more cleaning, so no big deal--and they do make awesome products. So in the absence of other alternatives I may go that route. When I get the 27 recoil will be a non-issue but I was still searching for good commerical stuff for my 19-3 and Model 13. Very much appreciate your guidance.
Doug M.
Member
BH is quality, and you will pay for it. As Pat used to say, buy once, cry once.
As for modest loads, I admit that what I use my is my M66 is a standard velocity 158 grain .38 SWC. The shape works; there is no worry about expansion or not at modest velocity and penetration will be adequate. It is all an easy load to shoot well and fast. I have qualified with various .357 loads, usually the 145 grain Silvertip, but I shoot far better and faster with the .38s.
As for modest loads, I admit that what I use my is my M66 is a standard velocity 158 grain .38 SWC. The shape works; there is no worry about expansion or not at modest velocity and penetration will be adequate. It is all an easy load to shoot well and fast. I have qualified with various .357 loads, usually the 145 grain Silvertip, but I shoot far better and faster with the .38s.
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