EVs are over 30% of new vehicle sales in two of the biggest markets in the world (Germany and China). And 90% of new car sales in tiny Norway.
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There seems to be more to the EV story
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smoothshooter
Member
How big are the hybrid batteries and where are they located?
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Well, I'm 68 years old and my wife is 70. I have two brand new naturally aspirated V6 powered Toyotas. I'm figuring the odds are that these vehicles will outlive us both. So my interest in all this EV nonsense is purely academic as I will probably never have to decide whether or not I have to buy one. But I agree with everything posted.
Think I'm gonna buy a gun.
Think I'm gonna buy a gun.
That's because of their emissions policies, government subsidies and restrictions.
A friend of mine spent 3 months in China. He told me they have a lottery to get a drivers license and the cost is close to $30K US. You also need a place to park the vehicle. Don't forget how many nuclear power plants they've built in the past decade.
Norway has abundant hydro electric, which keeps the cost of electricity down. This is from an article about Norway's EV's.
Why Norway is rethinking its reliance on electric cars - Vox
Norway has a population of about 5.5 million. That's a little over half the population of Michigan.
Here's an article on Germany's EV sales.
German EV sales nosedive in September 2023 | Electrek
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Well....
"As of this time, total plug-in sales in Germany are still up 5% in 2023 compared to 2022, but that puts the market perilously close to backsliding."
From your source.
And for perspective, China sold 11.1 million cars from Jan 1 to June 30 this year; we sold 7.6 million. 2023 (Half Year) International: Global Worldwide Car Sales - Car Sales Statistics
"As of this time, total plug-in sales in Germany are still up 5% in 2023 compared to 2022, but that puts the market perilously close to backsliding."
From your source.
And for perspective, China sold 11.1 million cars from Jan 1 to June 30 this year; we sold 7.6 million. 2023 (Half Year) International: Global Worldwide Car Sales - Car Sales Statistics
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Gas is over $7/gallon (USD) in Germany. I can go fill up right now for $2 a gallon and drive close to 700 miles without refueling.
As for China, they have almost 1.5 billion people. We have around 330 million.
I don't understand why you defend EV's so strongly. How much driving do you actually do in the US?
As someone who pulls an 8,000 lb travel trailer to semi remote areas on a pretty regular basis, I can comfortably say that I'll never even consider an EV of any kind! Add in the fact that I live in a colder climate where all batteries tend to die a slow predictable death. I'll be long gone before they figure this **** out. [emoji38]
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I don't care about EVs, but I like to have conversations based on facts. One fact is that the folks I know who actually drive EVs are happy with them, have been for years, and have none of the imaginary problems envisioned in threads like this.
I usually drive 25k miles annually when home and buy one vehicle per decade. My next is due in 2028 and likely will be a Ford Lightning pickup.
I usually drive 25k miles annually when home and buy one vehicle per decade. My next is due in 2028 and likely will be a Ford Lightning pickup.
Telecaster
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This is like a caliber war or bear caliber thread.
Mountain lions, too. 
Telecaster
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Ot magazine capacity.
Telecaster
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Or pocket carry vs belt. Or open carry.
Telecaster
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Don't like EVs, don't buy one. I don't and I won't. The only reason I'd consider a hybrid is because gas-only choices are dwindling.
Grayfox
US Veteran
I have no doubt that some day we'll all be driving EVs. But for right now and the near future, nope. The technology just isn't there yet. Maybe in another 10-20 years, but not now.
UncleEd
Member
The technology just isn't there yet. Maybe in another 10-20 years, but not now.
Oh yeah? Well, I happen to know it's all going to come
together, all the necessary technology, on June 23, 2024.
Mark your calendar.
oddshooter
Member
Most of you don't want to hear it, haters can just move on.
I followed the link from our OP. That wasn't a research study, it was an advertisement.
Quote:
"The foundation is a conservative think tank that according to 2012 tax filings was funded predominantly by Exxon Mobil, Chevron and the Koch brothers. The organization, according to the New York Times, has been attempting for years to promote fossil fuels while inciting a pullback in America's transition to renewable energy. "
"Inciting" is the understatement of the year.
It's usually appropriate to discover the source to find if there are self-interest involved. These 3 entities have spent several billion dollars trying to kill their competition because there are trillions of dollars involved. Cherry picking your data is required, and you must fund main stream media who are willing to publish anything for profits.
Does anyone know or care about the subsidies that oil companies and drillers have gotten for a century?
Here is some of my real world numbers:
99% of the time, I use my dryer 220 plug to charge my model Y overnight when the rates are the cheapest. Even on the road I can go from 20% to 80% in 15 minutes paying about $12, rather than $60. That's good for around 270 miles. 330 miles at 100%.
My software shows degradation at 2% after 2 years; with most of that occurring during the first couple of months. Charging from 0% to 100% kills batteries. I don't do that. Many EV's have already reached 500,000 miles and still going. Some have already hit 1,000,000 miles on one battery.
The worst case is Uber drivers hitting 20% degradation after 200,000 miles because they supercharge to 100% twice a day.
Tesla considers 20% degradation replaceable under warranty. Even those used 80% batteries are fantastic when then are used for household storage needs. 80% EV battery is still enormous storage. Fill them at night when 1/4 the price for the electricity. Use it during the day.
Even if a battery pack went to 0%, Redwood Materials is currently salvaging 97% of the rare earth metals for reuse in new batteries. They predict that by 2038, mining may no longer be needed with tens of millions of EV's on the roads which can be recycled. It is an inaccurate statement to assert that used batteries are worthless. Knowingly writing that, is a lie.
Mileage calculation is the same for ICE and EV. It depends on the speed, the wind, the weight, the tires, the temperature, the use of A/C and heating... It depends on .....
I get 330 miles when I drive 65 mph. I get about 300 miles at 75 mph. I get over 400 miles when I drive 40 mph.
It's hard keeping your foot off the fuel when you're driving a jet.
Tesla software is at least a generation or more ahead of all the other manufacturers. I have never had range anxiety with Tesla because it continually updates and estimates on the navigation map the percentage of charge with which I will arrive. No thinking required. I love the free Destination chargers at many hotels. Hilton just bought hundreds.
There is a new measure being used E-mgp or Electric miles per gallon to enable comparisons to ICE. It showed mine at over 120 Empg. I haven't gone to a gas station in 2 years. Yea! Yea! Yea, it's great! Whoever wrote that gas stations are everywhere shouldn't have written that as if it was a good thing.
Gas stations are smelly, dirty, and dangerous. It's a gift from god to be done with them.
I get my insurance directly from Tesla because it tracks my Safety Score every second I drive. $57/month.
It can be humiliating to discover all the alerts the software stores on your driving; following to close, speeding in corner, hard braking, inattention...
Safety
Million Miles between crashes: best to worst
Tesla in full self-driving FSD traveled 3.2 million miles.
Tesla manual without using FSD traveled 0.60 million miles.
Waymo traveled between crashes 0.50 million miles.
The national average in 2021 was 0.19 million on surface streets. Humans are pretty poor drivers.
Cruise, however, traveled merely 0.04 million miles before a crash. Just had permits cancelled by the state of California.
Over 75 years, I've owned or driven almost everything out there depending on my needs; trucks, suvs, vets, MG's, muscle cars... The model Y is so far beyond ICE that it has to have it's own category. It is pure FUN. Not comparable so not describable.
For those of you still using a slide rule, you should really try a computer. For those who have never driven an EV, but hate them with a passion, you really should try a computer with wheels.
It's about the software for me, not the means of propulsion.
Prescut
I followed the link from our OP. That wasn't a research study, it was an advertisement.
Quote:
"The foundation is a conservative think tank that according to 2012 tax filings was funded predominantly by Exxon Mobil, Chevron and the Koch brothers. The organization, according to the New York Times, has been attempting for years to promote fossil fuels while inciting a pullback in America's transition to renewable energy. "
"Inciting" is the understatement of the year.
It's usually appropriate to discover the source to find if there are self-interest involved. These 3 entities have spent several billion dollars trying to kill their competition because there are trillions of dollars involved. Cherry picking your data is required, and you must fund main stream media who are willing to publish anything for profits.
Does anyone know or care about the subsidies that oil companies and drillers have gotten for a century?
Here is some of my real world numbers:
99% of the time, I use my dryer 220 plug to charge my model Y overnight when the rates are the cheapest. Even on the road I can go from 20% to 80% in 15 minutes paying about $12, rather than $60. That's good for around 270 miles. 330 miles at 100%.
My software shows degradation at 2% after 2 years; with most of that occurring during the first couple of months. Charging from 0% to 100% kills batteries. I don't do that. Many EV's have already reached 500,000 miles and still going. Some have already hit 1,000,000 miles on one battery.
The worst case is Uber drivers hitting 20% degradation after 200,000 miles because they supercharge to 100% twice a day.
Tesla considers 20% degradation replaceable under warranty. Even those used 80% batteries are fantastic when then are used for household storage needs. 80% EV battery is still enormous storage. Fill them at night when 1/4 the price for the electricity. Use it during the day.
Even if a battery pack went to 0%, Redwood Materials is currently salvaging 97% of the rare earth metals for reuse in new batteries. They predict that by 2038, mining may no longer be needed with tens of millions of EV's on the roads which can be recycled. It is an inaccurate statement to assert that used batteries are worthless. Knowingly writing that, is a lie.
Mileage calculation is the same for ICE and EV. It depends on the speed, the wind, the weight, the tires, the temperature, the use of A/C and heating... It depends on .....
I get 330 miles when I drive 65 mph. I get about 300 miles at 75 mph. I get over 400 miles when I drive 40 mph.
It's hard keeping your foot off the fuel when you're driving a jet.
Tesla software is at least a generation or more ahead of all the other manufacturers. I have never had range anxiety with Tesla because it continually updates and estimates on the navigation map the percentage of charge with which I will arrive. No thinking required. I love the free Destination chargers at many hotels. Hilton just bought hundreds.
There is a new measure being used E-mgp or Electric miles per gallon to enable comparisons to ICE. It showed mine at over 120 Empg. I haven't gone to a gas station in 2 years. Yea! Yea! Yea, it's great! Whoever wrote that gas stations are everywhere shouldn't have written that as if it was a good thing.
Gas stations are smelly, dirty, and dangerous. It's a gift from god to be done with them.
I get my insurance directly from Tesla because it tracks my Safety Score every second I drive. $57/month.
It can be humiliating to discover all the alerts the software stores on your driving; following to close, speeding in corner, hard braking, inattention...
Safety
Million Miles between crashes: best to worst
Tesla in full self-driving FSD traveled 3.2 million miles.
Tesla manual without using FSD traveled 0.60 million miles.
Waymo traveled between crashes 0.50 million miles.
The national average in 2021 was 0.19 million on surface streets. Humans are pretty poor drivers.
Cruise, however, traveled merely 0.04 million miles before a crash. Just had permits cancelled by the state of California.
Over 75 years, I've owned or driven almost everything out there depending on my needs; trucks, suvs, vets, MG's, muscle cars... The model Y is so far beyond ICE that it has to have it's own category. It is pure FUN. Not comparable so not describable.
For those of you still using a slide rule, you should really try a computer. For those who have never driven an EV, but hate them with a passion, you really should try a computer with wheels.
It's about the software for me, not the means of propulsion.
Prescut
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Battery powered vehicles are SO popular in New Mexico, less than 1% of all vehicles registered, that our governor Michelle Lujan-Grisham had mandated that:
"For the model year 2027, passenger vehicles will be at 43%, so nearly half of all new vehicles sold in New Mexico must be zero-emission vehicles," Lujan Grisham said at a press conference on July 3, 2023.
How easy is it to buy an electric vehicle?
"So not only does she say you must select from more EVs, but when you go to buy a car, you can only select from certain EVs."
Updated: 11:30 AM MDT Jul 19, 2023
How easy is it to buy an electric vehicle?
Nothing like government mandates to limit choices and force sales of something folks don't seem to want!
"For the model year 2027, passenger vehicles will be at 43%, so nearly half of all new vehicles sold in New Mexico must be zero-emission vehicles," Lujan Grisham said at a press conference on July 3, 2023.
How easy is it to buy an electric vehicle?
"So not only does she say you must select from more EVs, but when you go to buy a car, you can only select from certain EVs."
Updated: 11:30 AM MDT Jul 19, 2023
How easy is it to buy an electric vehicle?
Nothing like government mandates to limit choices and force sales of something folks don't seem to want!
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How are EVs "renewable energy"?
oddshooter
Member
When we burn up the oil, it's burned up forever. That's a long time. Not renewable.
And the world gets too much of it from bad places where we send trillions of dollars to terrorize us.
When we use the wind or sun, we don't deplete any of it.
Seems simple.
And the world gets too much of it from bad places where we send trillions of dollars to terrorize us.
When we use the wind or sun, we don't deplete any of it.
Seems simple.
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Telecaster
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How much wind and solar is used to charge up cars?
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