Another reason to be anti-EV

[cmj8591]

Congress is all about rewriting laws to fit their agenda. Maybe they can rewrite the laws of physics so that those LiIo batteries will work. Once the EV, solar, wind mill money train runs it's course, hydrogen combustion might get a chance and they might start re engineering nuclear power. It will be a long time, if ever, before cold fusion gets to a point where it doesn't take more power to make it happen than it produces. There are no free lunches so as long as we need to get from one point to another, there will be something left behind.

 

[venomballistics]

Anyone out there that can speak to development of Ultracapacitors vs Batteries?

the "bucket" doesn't matter much.
Power out = power in - losses due to heat.
The best "bucket" on the horizon is the solid state battery.
We still have to cram power into it, but it's projected life cycle is to the tune of 70 years, all of its rated capacity can be utilized, and it can sustain physical damage and still work.
Legend has it, early prototypes were used in a drone that had the performance to evade and walk away from a police helicopter.

Where these caps tend to be low voltage devices, which eliminates them from practical consideration, they may be useful within the system to fortify the rails under demand spikes if we come into voltage ratings high enough to be useful.

 

[johngalt]

I like the idea of hybrids. No range issues. Battery packs aren't too expensive. My daughter's 2005 Prius gets 35 mpg around Pittsburgh. My 02 Volvo gets 17.

As long as the gas motor isn't a wimpy 4 pot, or even worse a 3. Most hybrids are gutless econoboxes with no thought given to performance.

The Porsche 918 is the way to do a hybrid!

 

[A10]

Hydrogen is the answer. No one is asking that question though, except Toyota. And, of course, our legislators don't want Anything out there that they can't fully control. They can turn your electricity off any time they want.

 

[DWalt]

Hydrogen fuel cells and even using hydrogen itself as fuel are practical but the main problem lies in getting the energy required to produce the hydrogen. There are several methods, but as always, the laws of thermodynamics say you can never get something for nothing.

 

[venomballistics]

Hydrogen fuel cells and even using hydrogen itself as fuel are practical but the main problem lies in getting the energy required to produce the hydrogen. There are several methods, but as always, the laws of thermodynamics say you can never get something for nothing.

Same can be said about methanol from CO2.
a far more universally useful product but still faces the same gluttonous power appetite.
That's where most every concept seems to meet it's demise. The energy one must put into it.
If this could be set aside, there's some interesting discussion to be had

 

[venomballistics]

As long as the gas motor isn't a wimpy 4 pot, or even worse a 3. Most hybrids are gutless econoboxes with no thought given to performance.

The Porsche 918 is the way to do a hybrid!

before that, there was the Audi R28 that dominated LeMans.
Porsche and McLaren (P1) jumped in thereafter.

 

[johngalt]

before that, there was the Audi R28 that dominated LeMans.
Porsche and McLaren (P1) jumped in thereafter.

Ferrari makes one too.

 

[venomballistics]

Ferrari makes one too.

yeah ... where cost is no object, they seem to have found some advantages to be had in the hybrid shell game.

 

[johngalt]

yeah ... where cost is no object, they seem to have found some advantages to be had in the hybrid shell game.

I forgot about the Corvette E-Ray. A bargain compared to its European rivals!

 

[venomballistics]

I forgot about the Corvette E-Ray. A bargain compared to its European rivals!

Yes, but still pretty steep for an audience that has a thread about fast food prices
None the less, these examples are a good crucible to find the useful nooks and crannies of the hybrid shell game. Certainly better than the minimalist approach of earlier offerings like the Prius and insight.

 

[ladder13]

EV euphoria is dead. Automakers trumpet consumer choice in U.S.


“For years, the automotive industry has been in a state of EV euphoria. Automakers trotted out optimistic sales forecasts for electric models and announced ambitious targets for EV growth. Wall Street boosted valuations for legacy automakers and startup entrants alike, based in part on their visions for an EV future.


Now the hype is dwindling, and companies are again cheering consumer choice. Automakers from Ford Motor
and General Motors
to Mercedes-Benz
, Volkswagen
, Jaguar Land Rover and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.“

 

[Yaworski]

no real point anyhow as you still need to charge them whether they slide out easily or not.

Exactly, you're on the road so you pull into a battery station. Ten minutes later, you're headed down the road with a fresh battery and the station charges your old one.

Blue Rhino for batteries.

 

[venomballistics]

Exactly, you're on the road so you pull into a battery station. Ten minutes later, you're headed down the road with a fresh battery and the station charges your old one.

Blue Rhino for batteries.

Which might work out for a tank.
A battery pack is a bit more involved in the power system.
a well abused pack will ruin a trip.

 

[Yendor357]

A few weeks ago, an EV died on the bridge from New Albany Indiana to Louisville Ky. A semi being driven by a woman swerved in order to miss the stopped traffic. She was dangling off the bridge for an hour before LFD got her safely out of the tractor.

I re-read the article a week later, and the story was totally different. Why? Because an EV dying on the bridge isn’t good publicity for those trying to shove EVs down out throats. Government corruption, Front and Center.

 

[venomballistics]

A few weeks ago, an EV died on the bridge from New Albany Indiana to Louisville Ky. A semi being driven by a woman swerved in order to miss the stopped traffic. She was dangling off the bridge for an hour before LFD got her safely out of the tractor.

I re-read the article a week later, and the story was totally different. Why? Because an EV dying on the bridge isn’t good publicity for those trying to shove EVs down out throats. Government corruption, Front and Center.

Google loves things EV.
As such, I get a good look at these things in use.
Google uses computer parts be the truckload.
Thus a shag truck (EV) is required for the dock/trailer shell game. If it's cold, hot, rainy or snowy, they are out of commission.
Forklifts for unloading.
A factory service tech is on a first name basis with nearly everyone on site. He may as well clock in with the rest of the staff as his attendance record is better than some of the full time employees.
When I started, the executives and management dotted the parking lot with Teslas. I haven't seen one since July.
These things should not fail as hard as they do. but I cannot ignore it when it's choking on it's own vomit in front of my face.

 

[NYlakesider]

A few weeks ago, an EV died on the bridge from New Albany Indiana to Louisville Ky. A semi being driven by a woman swerved in order to miss the stopped traffic. She was dangling off the bridge for an hour before LFD got her safely out of the tractor.

I re-read the article a week later, and the story was totally different. Why? Because an EV dying on the bridge isn’t good publicity for those trying to shove EVs down out throats. Government corruption, Front and Center.

It certainly looks like a very good quality steel was used in the manufacture of that 5th wheel.

 

[mm93]

Our next door neighbors are big EV fans and own two Chevy Volts. We've often discussed the pros and cons of a good high MPG gas engine car vs. his EV's. The big thing I've always stressed was the cost and frequency of battery packs, and how little these cars are worth once they get close to needing new batteries.
But last fall he discovered another "con" about owning an EV. I had just gotten up in the morning when I noticed flashing lights outside my house and opened the curtains to see fire trucks everywhere! I went back and got dressed, and went outside to see my neighbors standing in front of their house, and asked what happened? He said the neighbor behind him called to tell him his detached garage was on fire, and called 911 to get the firemen on their way. He had one of his cars plugged into the charger, but the car was outside the garage when the fire started. He unplugged it and moved it to the front, and then went into his home and shut off power to the garage electrical panel.
When the firemen got the fire out they looked over the damage and said it started in the corner where his charger was. Not much left of the charger to even identify it as a charger, other than he knew nothing else was in that corner.
The garage was a total loss along with the contents, but at least being detached it didn't hurt their house at all. But sure made me even more against EV cars.

 

[venomballistics]

There is that as well.
the EV industry is not taking the engineering part of this as seriously as they should, and it shows.
Solid state batteries would avoid this issue. Yet they slow walk development.

 

[Rudi]

I think so.