1911 .38 Super

[Grayfox]

You will also need to find a .38 Super magazine, probably stronger recoil springs too.

I have other 38 Supers and plenty of mags. BTW: I've found that Metalform makes the best 38 Super magazines.

Actually, the 9mm and 38 Super use the same recoil spring. But I may put a slightly stronger one in just to keep from having to chase brass into the next county.

 

[85win]

Panache...

What a hoot!! The ad says it all!!

Do you know what magazine that ad is out of?

I just recently bought my first 38 Super and have been to the range one time. I am very happy with it!

 

[AJ]

Another good article on .38 Supers is one by sheriff Jim Wilson in the 2015 Gun Digest if you can find that issue. He really likes them. The article has several good pictures.

Jim

Ordered a copy.

 

[AJ]

I once owned a Colt Model 1903 pocket model (.38 ACP). Its slide was still OK, and I kept it that way by handloading .38 ACP cartridges at the minimum power level adequate to function the slide.

I carried this one on several occasions. Never got a second look. This my .38 ACP Model 1903 Hammer. Yes, I reload for it. Cases are painted black to ensure that .38 Supers do not get in the mix.

 

[85win]

Another good article on .38 Supers is one by sheriff Jim Wilson in the 2015 Gun Digest if you can find that issue. He really likes them. The article has several good pictures.

Jim

Do you remember if this article has load data or ballistic tables? I am interested in ordering a copy.

 

[max]

Several years ago, I was on the verge of ordering a .38 Super barrel, mags and converting my RIA 9mm. However, I realized I wasn't getting that much more power than my 9's and I only shoot paper.

 

[AJ]

Several years ago, I was on the verge of ordering a .38 Super barrel, mags and converting my RIA 9mm. However, I realized I wasn't getting that much more power than my 9's and I only shoot paper.

More power when shooting paper is irrelevant. Accuracy is where you want to be when shooting paper. Some will say the 9MM is more accurate than the .38 Super. Some will say it the other way around. I say find out for yourself.

 

[LEO918]

Treated my DW Guardian to a set of Ivories since this thread was started.

 

[SuperMan]

No big trick to come up with .38 Super handloads that far outperform factory loads even if used in unsupported chambers. But as I have earlier stated, I use the heavy 9x23 Win cases for such loads just for extra safety. At least for me, AA#5 works best for that purpose as it has a high bulk density that allows large charges to fit into the case. My top load is a 124 grain jacketed bullet with 8.6 grains of AA#5. It produces a MV around 1450 ft/sec from a 5" barrel. Use a heavy recoil spring.

...only problem is you are shooting exactly what 9x23 factory Winchester ammo is running, not .38 Super ammo.

The boutique ammo manufactures run 124/5s in the 1350 area which is safe in any Super, supported or non... 115s can be run to the mid-1400s...

Bob

 

[SuperMan]

...also...

The Colt SUPER .38 is the name which Colt gave their 1911 in 1929 that was made to shoot .38 ACP just like the GOVERNMENT MODEL was the .45.

In 1929 there was no such thing as the .38 Super. It was the .38 ACP at 1080 fps. This was then bumped up by the ammo manufactures over the next few years till the nominal velocity was 1300 fps with a 130 grain bullet. There were both FMJ and JHP ammo available. The velocity increase was with Colt's blessing as they thought that the then discontinued 1903s could take the pressure. It wasn't till the late 1930s that Colt notified tha mmo companies there was a "problem"...

Part of the solution was to put standard pressure rounds in brass cases and high speed in nickel plated cases. But the boxes were still labeled .38 ACP. It wasn't till sometime in the 1940s or 50s that boxes of high speed ammo started appearing with the .38 Super caliber on the box. .38 ACP was available till I believe the 1980s or 90s...velocity listed was 1040 fps. .38 Super 1280.

That book on the SUPER .38 pictured on page one of this thread...just saw two sell on GunBroker over the last week at $1000 and $930 each...

Bob

 

[Old Corp]

Had been interested in the .38 Super cartridge for years, and of course being a M1911 fan, finally ran into one at a great price - a RIA M1911 5" 'GI' style no-frills pistol.
Did a small amount of work to the pistol, shipping the slide to Novak for sights, polished the ramp and chamber and placed VZ 'Cherrywood' GI lookalike grips on it.
For a beer-budget pistol, it far exceeded my expectations for accuracy and reliability.

The 'Super', like many other calibers is at it's best as a handloader's round.
Was pleased to find the RIA had a fully supported chamber. Published load data easily takes the .38 Super into .357 Mag. area for ballistic comparison using 124/5 JHP bullets.
I use only Starline .38 Super basic brass - no bulging or pressure signs.

Since I HATE losing .38 Super brass on my heavily grassed range, did pick up a 9mm barrel and already had several 1911 9mm magazines - it makes a great range gun, and no real worries about lost brass.

 

[SuperMan]

As far as I have been able to determine, Colt was the only manufacturer that used barrels with the headspace on the rim chambers. Not sure what Llama or Star used but probably headspace on the case mouth as the guns were designed to also shoot the 9mm Largo who's rim is the same diameter as the body.

Looking at a 1944 GUN DIGEST yesterday in the ammo section was listed three .38 Auto cartridges:
WINCHESTER brand:

.38 Automatic Colt 1080 fps 130 FMJ

.38 SUPER SPEED .38 Automatic Colt 1300 fps 130 FMJ

.38 SUPER SPEED .38 Automatic Colt 1300 fps 130 Hollow Soft Point

So apparently the ammo companies treated the .38 ACP the same way they did the .38 Special high speed rounds, just calling them "High Speed" instead of a different name completely...

In the hand drawn cartridge pictures, the name on the .38 ACP is ".38 AUTOMATIC COLT" and the other ".38 SUPER AUTO COLT".

 

[glenwolde]

I've been thinking about this too, as I have a Springfield 1911 in 9mm. I keep seeing the $49 .38 Super Sig Sauer barrels at CDNN and think one would work, as it has the same type ramp as my Springfield.

Is it a given that you need new magazines? Some 9mm 1911 magazines have a spacer at the rear for the shorter cartridge. But some don't. My Springfield magazines don't have the spacer. I don't see why they wouldn't work.

My only holdup is I'm just not sure I want to add another caliber.

 

[AJ]

I've been thinking about this too, as I have a Springfield 1911 in 9mm. I keep seeing the $49 .38 Super Sig Sauer barrels at CDNN and think one would work, as it has the same type ramp as my Springfield.

Is it a given that you need new magazines? Some 9mm 1911 magazines have a spacer at the rear for the shorter cartridge. But some don't. My Springfield magazines don't have the spacer. I don't see why they wouldn't work.

My only holdup is I'm just not sure I want to add another caliber.

Those are ramped barrels. Will not fit a M1911 frame unless it is cut out for it. It does fit my Ruger SR1911 frame, but will need to modify a slide to get it to function.

 

[Rock185]

I have an old Pocket Hammer Colt that I reload for. I do try to keep velocities under 1500FPS with this one

BTW, Just out of curiosity, I bought one of those SIG .38 Super barrels a few years ago. It would have to be fitted to use in my STI Super, but fit my Kimber Super like it was made for it. It is a very nicely finished barrel inside and out. No malfunctions with factory or reloaded ammo, and accuracy as good as with the original factory barrel.

 

[SuperMan]

SIG used to chamber 1911s in .38 Super but when they stopped they packaged up and sold off all the barrels. They have the Nowlin/Wilson Ramp and will fit any makers gun that have that ramp. I've put them in several Kimber 9mm and 10mm guns as well as a SIG Nightmare Carry that was originally .357 SIG.

For those that are wondering, the .38 Super runs in any 1911 made in 10mm also not just 9mm. After having a Kimber Stainless Target II in .38 Super decided to buy one in 10mm I liked it so much...it was only after I bought the 10mm that I found out that Kimber uses the same breechface cut for their 9mm and 10mm guns... Sold the 10mm to a friend who had never had a semi-auto before along with 9mm and Super barrels and just added barrel to my original Super.

If you have ever wanted a Long Slide .38 Super just buy one in 10mm and add a Fusion 6" .38 Super barrel. Had one added to a PARA-USA LS Hunter (Para/Clark ramp) and a Kimber 10mm Stainless (Nowlin/Wilson ramp). Really makes the Super and 9x23 hummmm...

Bob

ps...

Just looked it up and if a Springfield Armory 9mm/10mm is cut for a ramped barrel it is a Nowlin/Wilson which is what the SIG barrel is...so it may take some minor fitting but is the proper ramp for the SA...

 

[DWalt]

For those that are wondering, the .38 Super runs in any 1911 made in 10mm also not just 9mm. After having a Kimber Stainless Target II in .38 Super decided to buy one in 10mm I liked it so much...it was only after I bought the 10mm that I found out that Kimber uses the same breechface cut for their 9mm and 10mm guns...

Just looked it up and if a Springfield Armory 9mm/10mm is cut for a ramped barrel it is a Nowlin/Wilson which is what the SIG barrel is...so it may take some minor fitting but is the proper ramp for the SA...

I did not know that. Is it true for all 10mm 1911s? If so it should also be true for using 1911 9mm barrels as they use the same slide as the .38 Super. So you theoretically could have a single M1911 that could use 9mm, .38 Super, .357 Sig, .40 S&W, and 10mm by just changing barrels and magazines. I own nothing in .357 Sig, .40 S&W, or 10mm, so that is something I have not tried. Makes one wonder if a simple barrel swap could turn a M1911 .45 into a .357 Sig, .40 S&W, or 10mm.

 

[SuperMan]

I've never done a conversion on a non-ramped Colt 10mm but have on Kimber, SIG and PARA so don't see what the difference would be doing any other brand of 1911.

The Kimber Stainless Target II will run:
.38 Super
9x23 Winchester
9mm Largo
9x19
.357 SIG
.40 S&W
10mm
...all on one slide.

Lucked into a Kimber parts kit in .45 with every part but the frame...so added .45 ACP and .45 Super to the mix. An then found of of the .22 Conversion Units in silver...

Added flat bottom firing pin stops and extra power firing pin springs to the slides. The mainspring was increased to 25#. The recoil springs are matched to the caliber. 14# for 9mm. 18.0 for most of the rest and 20-24 for 9x23, .10mm and .45 Super...

Early pictures before everything was all together:

Kimber Stainless Target II System... - 24hourcampfire

Four-Caliber STII... | 1911Forum


If trying to go from 9mm to 10mm it will all depend on the brand...Colt will not, RIA will not, Kimber will... haven't had time to experiment with others.


When I ordered the 6" .38 Super barrels from Fusion to fit on the Kimber and PARA longslides, Bob the owner, said it wouldn't work...I told him about the Kimber I already had and said it would work fine... He shipped the barrels and my local 1911 smith fitted them and they run 100% and VERY accurate...

Bob

 

[DWalt]

Interesting. For many years I have owned a single M1911 frame set up for 9mm and .38 Super (also any other 9x23) using a 9mm slide, and .45ACP and .400 Cor-Bon with a .45 slide. Plus a .22 conversion. All combinations work well, but the .400 Cor-Bon shoots the tightest groups. Never really thought much about including .40 S&W, 10mm, or .357 Sig to the lineup as the .400 Cor-Bon and 9x23 Win cover the high-performance spectrum.

 

[SuperMan]

Main reason I did it was an old Guns&Ammo article back in the 1970s where they started with a Combat Commander in .38 Super and added barrels and slides from there... The .38 B&D was one of the rounds used off the .45 slide...

Have a .400 CorBon barrel fitted to a 1968 GM that has BoMar sights and a .22 Conversion Unit. Ended up with a couple boxes of ammo and found one of the very inexpensive ROTO 4M barrels from SARCO...shoots very well...

Had the chance to buy a 7.62x25 conversion barrel with the correct ramp and didn't decide to add it before they were gone...really REALLY stupid and I have lots of ammo from having a CZ52 and a Tok...


Bob