681ismyfavorite
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No matter what mode of carry, if you're going to pull the trigger the gun will fire. So if you're going to pull the trigger you need to really consider where you have the gun pointed.
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Appendix Carry
- Thread starter jimmyj
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Yes, thanks for posting, Red, and also for the link, WarsenRoss, so that I could read it.
"...Officer Manuel 'Manny' Ortiz, 52, was found in an SUV in ravine shortly after 7 p.m....Officer Ortiz was a 22-year-veteran of the Rochester Police Department...."
Tragedies like this remind us all to guard against complacency and carelessness no matter our experience and familiarity with firearms.
Norton 750
Member
Afraid at my advanced age, too many steaks have ruled it out for me. Strong side hip remains my choice. Not really concerned about drawing when in an automobile. The vehicle is my weapon. One can't drive and shoot, no matter how many Chuck Norris movies you have seen. Never pull up close enough at a stoplight that you don't have room to maneuver. Stay alert and you will be fine. Coming from a no roof Cobra and a T-Top always out Corvette driver!
rednichols
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Yes, it's just that with the muzzle pointed at the groin, wearers (the ones who live, not the widows) will swear they didn't pull the trigger. Like the Rust actor, remember? That he avoided a conviction had nothing to do with his claim he never pulled the trigger (which he did, the video shows he was pulling the trigger and riding the hammer down while he held it back). Words don't matter at over a thousand feet per second, and the groin only an inch away from the muzzle!
Here's another, very recent one:
Man Dies After Shooting Himself in the Groin While Attempting U-Turn—Police - Newsweek
The search was 'shot in groin' which turned up third party shootings too.
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minconrevo
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I carried J frames in an appendix rig for years. With the grip positioned low, as in at belt level, it was a thumb and one finger draw. Very concealable, even with just a T-shirt. Not quick but fast enough. My reholster regimen was to remove the holster, insert pistol, then reinsert the two into my waist, as a single unit. Again, not speedy but safe. This setup worked standing but not from seated.
Some folks, usually those of thin body builds, can comfortably carry a full size pistol AIWB. I'm not thin, so I go the 3-4 o'clock carry IWB for subcompact, compact, and full size when max concealment is the goal. Will work from most any body position.
Some folks, usually those of thin body builds, can comfortably carry a full size pistol AIWB. I'm not thin, so I go the 3-4 o'clock carry IWB for subcompact, compact, and full size when max concealment is the goal. Will work from most any body position.
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gila_dog
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I've tried appendix carry but my belly gets in way, I can't squat, and I can never forget that I'm violating one of the basic safety rules... Don't point you gun at anything you don't want to shoot. 3 o'clock IWB is pretty comfy, but I worry about getting my gun snatched away from behind. Cross draw seems ok except fot squatting .
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Matt_X
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Maybe I missed it. Can't find anything in that article that states or implies the pistol was in an IWB holster carried between 11 and 1 o'clock.
Correct me if I'm wrong, the definition of AIWB for this discussion is a pistol or revolver holstered between 11 and 1 o'clock. I ask because I don't see how 2o'clock or 10 o'clock is signifcantly less dangerous if the firearm was discharged. It's still damn close and really until carried behind the hip bone with IWB the barrel is still pointing in toward the vital parts of the carrier's body.
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Amp
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J frame size revolvers or strikers the have a manual safety hide well under my belly. I have even had a safety added for that purpose.
But that is what works for me.
But that is what works for me.
rednichols
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Who gets to define where AIWB is located? One would think, the makers, and the Sparks people and I stumbled around trying to work this out some years ago when I thought of appendix carry at being 2:00 muzzle to the rear as Bruce Nelson carried, and they were thinking across the belly around the navel Boy was I surprised to learn that even idiots would ever carry there!!
We can expect that the dead man was carrying across the belly because he shot himself in the groin! When carrying at 4:00 I would say that would have been impossible, wouldn't you?
This is how Galco defines 'safe carry' positions, which shows you their 21st century employees don't know much about holster safety. Included with those illustrations is how 20th century gunmen carried as 'appendix' which Bruce called 'forward of hip': at 2:00, muzzle to the rear. He was a real gunfighter, killed men in the line of duty (he was a narc agent for CA). We knew each other but he was very much a part timer in the holster game while I was a full timer. The image is from a 1980 article he penned:
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681ismyfavorite
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The bottom line is that everyone should know their level of competence. If you were not competent with inside the waistband carry at certain positions, then you should not use it.
The nearest range to me that allows draw-and-fire is more than three hours away! I hate that.
Well, actually, there is one range that is closer, but you have to buy a membership at a cost of $1200 per year. Retired, on a fixed income, no way I can afford that.
Gee! Almost seems like that should be one of the basic rules of gun safety, doesn't it?
Hey... Wait a minute...
Matt_X
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No sir. I do not even make the assumption that he was carrying in a holster.
Based on the description of the event and considering the source a more likely scenario is that the pistol was in his hand when he attempted to turn the wheel. He then shoved it under his legs or between his legs or attempted to do the u-turn with it in his hand.
John Patrick
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I agree that it’s nearly certain the gun was out of a holster.
As for the other two incidents Red cites, same thing.
In the one with the 52yr old officer the gun was out of the holster - and there was no information on whether the holster was on a belt or no or at what position.
In the other the fellow was reholstering, which I hope we all know should be done by taking the holster off, inserting the gun and then putting the holster with the gun in it in place. Protecting the trigger is all important.
Btw, I do carry AIWB, usually a P365 or P365x in a tuckable Galco rough out holster. It’s a comfortable way to carry and it’s real concealed, with it without sweatshirt, fleece, etc. My P365s have manual safeties, but that’s because I did a fair bit of 1911 shooting and sweeping the safety is second nature. One in a while I’ll carry a 386PD AIWB while hunting.
Draw and dry fire inside your house. No cost. Larry
rednichols
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My motto about AIWB: take all the warning labels off, let God sort it out. Beam me up Scotty, no intelligent life here.
After my experience with an AIWB holster during a training class, described above, I have been looking into them more deeply. Two innovations that I think are of interest in particular are "the wedge," which pushes out the bottom of the holster, moving the muzzle away from the body and the grip in close to your body, and "the claw," an accessory that is attached to the rear edge of the holster so that the pressure from the belt holds the butt of the grip close to the body to reduce printing.
There is a lot of info on AIWB holsters and how to use them effectively on the site linked below, including how to self diagnose to get a good fit for different body types. Click the "Learn" tab.
About the Company | PHLSTER Kydex Holsters
I have come to believe, after studying it for a bit, that, properly fitted, and with training, AIWB carry is safe, very effective for concealment, and conducive to a fast draw.
There is a lot of info on AIWB holsters and how to use them effectively on the site linked below, including how to self diagnose to get a good fit for different body types. Click the "Learn" tab.
About the Company | PHLSTER Kydex Holsters
I have come to believe, after studying it for a bit, that, properly fitted, and with training, AIWB carry is safe, very effective for concealment, and conducive to a fast draw.
