LEOSA

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Faulkner said:
It's kinda bums me out that they save the best parking spaces at Lowe's for veterans. I mean, what's good for the should be good for me, right?
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You have my permission to park in that spot anytime you like, as long as you promise not to notice the slight bulge in my pocket when I’m dropping off a package at the post office. 😉
 
Sgt. Buzzard said:
It was George W. Bush who signed LEOSA into law due to increased risk of terrorism and violent crime. There were hundreds of thousands of retired guys who had served honorably for 25-30 or more years. The various states controlled the right to carry with sometimes onerous regulation. And only within that home state.

President Bush saw the opportunity to pass a law to arm those officer's who qualified and make it legal nationwide. Restricted to officer's trained in, use of force, arrest search and seizure, constitutional law, state laws, local ordinance, evidence gathering and preservation, court procedures, testimony. report writing, first aid, basic life support and quite frankly a whole lot more. Also a complete background check as well as hopefully, a psychological examination. Those approved had to have a minimum of 15 then 10 years on the job.

You will note that those with the required amount of time in the Military Police or Coast Guard service might also qualify.

So it really is quite a bit more than a lot of posters here know or want to admit. Police academy subject matter is varied and far reaching but required for certification. Shooting a gun is a very small part of the overall syllabus.
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Buzzard, I'm not picking on you, I just got as far as your post and thought, "Enough!"
I have no doubt that Bush 43 and Congress thought they were getting some sort of auxiliary force of retired cops to jump into action when the nation needed them. Now, I don't know who wanted this LEOSA thing in the first place, but you can bet it was concocted by some IACP types who wanted this for themselves but had to drag the rest of us into it to make their case "legitimate."
In practice, though, that "auxiliary" thing is nothing but pure hogwash. I've been to a lot of places, both during my LE career and in the past 11 years of retirement. I'm here to tell y'all, most active-duty cops really have no use for us old retirees. In most places, in fact, they don't want to see us, hear from us, or have anything to do with us. There isn't a big "club" of cops where anyone with a badge is welcome (other than the International Police Association, which is more like a bunch of guys who host cops from other countries in their homes when the foreigners are traveling. It's real big in Europe.) Hell, in some places, like here in AZ, the on-duty cops are downright borderline hostile to everyone, especially retirees. I stopped getting the Arizona LEOSA card because even the guy who I paid to qualify me was really "snooty." And they'd probably drop everything to put one of us in cuffs first if we, God forbid, tried to "help" with an arrest.
Really, I don't care about all that. I don't need to talk to these new cops that are less interested in policing than they are in moving on to something more "profitable." But all you guys who have a chip on your shoulder because you think people like me got some sort of "special privilege" that you don't get, don't know the half of it. If anything, YOU have more of a privilege than anyone, you just are too PO'ed to see it.
(And I'm not looking for sympathy - God, no. Just tired of the foolish direction these conversations inevitably go because everyone hates the cops instead of the politicians that are telling those cops what to do or not to do, and folks keep voting them in to office!)
 
GerSan69 said:
Buzzard, I'm not picking on you, I just got as far as your post and thought, "Enough!"
I have no doubt that Bush 43 and Congress thought they were getting some sort of auxiliary force of retired cops to jump into action when the nation needed them. Now, I don't know who wanted this LEOSA thing in the first place, but you can bet it was concocted by some IACP types who wanted this for themselves but had to drag the rest of us into it to make their case "legitimate."
In practice, though, that "auxiliary" thing is nothing but pure hogwash. I've been to a lot of places, both during my LE career and in the past 11 years of retirement. I'm here to tell y'all, most active-duty cops really have no use for us old retirees. In most places, in fact, they don't want to see us, hear from us, or have anything to do with us. There isn't a big "club" of cops where anyone with a badge is welcome (other than the International Police Association, which is more like a bunch of guys who host cops from other countries in their homes when the foreigners are traveling. It's real big in Europe.) Hell, in some places, like here in AZ, the on-duty cops are downright borderline hostile to everyone, especially retirees. I stopped getting the Arizona LEOSA card because even the guy who I paid to qualify me was really "snooty." And they'd probably drop everything to put one of us in cuffs first if we, God forbid, tried to "help" with an arrest.
Really, I don't care about all that. I don't need to talk to these new cops that are less interested in policing than they are in moving on to something more "profitable." But all you guys who have a chip on your shoulder because you think people like me got some sort of "special privilege" that you don't get, don't know the half of it. If anything, YOU have more of a privilege than anyone, you just are too PO'ed to see it.
(And I'm not looking for sympathy - God, no. Just tired of the foolish direction these conversations inevitably go because everyone hates the cops instead of the politicians that are telling those cops what to do or not to do, and folks keep voting them in to office!)
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I'm just wondering why the last couple of paragraphs are too light to be easily legible.

And you're dead right - the actual police don't need or want help from complete strangers that used to be cops. CCL is my choice for my use.
 
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biku324 said:
I'm just wondering why the last couple of paragraphs are too light to be easily legible.

And you're dead right - the actual police don't need or want help from complete strangers that used to be cops. CCL is my choice for my use.
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Hmmm.... I don't know why, either.
Yep, we are borderline nuisances, not some sort of "help."
 
A useful research project for the IACP or other nonprofit would be to get a hard count of precisely how many times a LEOSA-certified retiree intervened in a major crime and info on the outcome. There's been 20 years of tge existence of this program.

I've never seen even one report on this kind of retiree intervention.
 
biku324 said:
A useful research project for the IACP or other nonprofit would be to get a hard count of precisely how many times a LEOSA-certified retiree intervened in a major crime and info on the outcome. There's been 20 years of tge existence of this program.

I've never seen even one report on this kind of retiree intervention.
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IACP?
 
Smoke said:
To quote Barry, Let me be very clear,

I am not saying that cops are Leftist or that they support Leftist or that they're beholden to Leftists although I'm sure some are.

What I'm saying is that I think cops and especially the police brass tend to go along with his legislation because there's carve outs that exempt them. If they start applying these restrictions to the police exactly the way that they do citizens I would hope that the police would be vocal opponents.
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You are very wrong-headed sir.
 
Revelation said:
My main questions regarding Annual Qualifications or any LEOSA Qualifications is what is to be gained or what is the benefit from any Qualification as a Retired Used To Be LEO, AKA American Citizen without a Badge of Authority? As an example, as a U.S. Military Veteran, I do receive VA benefits, and sometimes discounts from various merchants. On the other hand, as a Retired LEO, I find that LEOSA serves no bonafide law enforcement purpose. LEOSA does not utilize the many years of training and experience that was invested in us to Protect and Serve, so why the need for LEOSA Qualifications? It's nothing more than a big CYA for the LE Agencies that really don't want any part of LEOSA and any potential liabilities. All Lawful American Citizens should be fully afforded the functional Rights written into Law under The Constitution of The United States of America. There is great fear for the "M" word!
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What you think "should be" and what is are two different things. Following 911 and under President Bush, the LEOSA/HR218 was established to encourage officers, active or retired, to have a firearm "on-body" to stop terrorist acts. You suggest that your years of training are not being utilized under the act but you are again wrong. It is your training that qualifies you for national carrying of a firearm under the act. You seem ignorant of our U. S. republic by forgetting that we are 50 independent states agreeing to national commerce and defense. We are not a single nation whom grants the 50 states individual governance, therefore, you must follow the law of each state where you travel when carrying a firearm. If you don't like the annual qualification, which mirrors the state of residence for basic mandated LE qualification, then quit whining like a left-wing protester and don't participate. I retired with almost 30-years in LE, most of it teaching the art of gunfighting (still teach for an international organization) I don't use HR218/LEOSA because I choose to carry whatever firearm I want, when & where I want, and do so at my own risk.
 
UFGator said:
No permit required at all for open carry in TN. I don’t actually agree. I’d like to see those who have no training get some, especially regarding legal issues. It is hard to paint everyone with a broad brush but I know people who think they can shoot someone who walks up to their car, without a weapon. Or, is stealing their car in their driveway. Or someone who is stealing their lawn mower.

The purpose of LEOSA as originally conceived was to enable retired LE, military police and others who met specific requirements to carry in every state. If you are participating in this discussion I would urge you to read the entire statute. You’ll be left with some questions.

It wasn’t supported by many agencies including mine due to liability. Finally, they had to issue a “firearms ID card” and the agency who qualifies you annually sometimes issues a card to go along with your agency card. Honestly, with the spread of reciprocity, it almost makes the LEOSA card unnecessary. As for the states who offer no reciprocity, I have no plans to visit any of them. But, not everyone can say that.
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Federal law enforcement, at least DOJ entities do not offer LEOSA qualifications to their retirees. One Treasury agency, after being forced to provide retired LEOSA IDs, wouldn’t issue badges with clips or pins because they didn’t want retirees carrying. Smarter individuals found Velcro solved the problem. Yeah, LEOSA didn’t go over well with administrators at all levels who likely hadn’t carried guns for anything but show for a while. I’m at the mercy of my state’s central academy, which does offer orphan retired feds the opportunity to qualify, noting handgun make and model, but not serial numbers. I don’t care to go to blue states either, but occasionally have some family business in SoCal, where I also began my career. I see various executive protection jobs for CA advertised, and one of the requirements is the ability to carry a concealed handgun under HR218 provisions. Anyway, I’m all for national reciprocity, national constitutional carry recognition, but regardless still want to see LEOSA reformed again.
 
jack zeller said:
It does not have to be your agency. Any agency in the state can qualify you.
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In NC its any certified firearms instructor. There are independent instructors that do it and I'm told some community colleges may offer the service.
 
Smoke said:
I want to be clear about what I'm trying to communicate.

I understand why a retired cop would take advantage of LEOSA. That's simple human nature.

What I'm saying is that LEOSA itself is bad because it's a bait and switch.

LEOSA is a bone that the people (Bloomberg, Soros, Giffords and the like) who are trying to disarm America threw to the cops so you wouldn't raise Hell while they strip the Proletariat"s Rights.

I promise you (Cops) that once we're disarmed you retirees are next and then the active cops will be drawing arms from the police armory and turning them back in at the end of their shift.

Look at Canada and England folks because that is your future
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I have said that very same thing for over 20 years. It will start in Kalifornistan. "I promise you (Cops) that once we're disarmed you retirees are next and then the active cops will be drawing arms from the police armory and turning them back in at the end of their shift." I am LEOSA Certified here in Az. Here the AZ DPS is in charge of LEOSA. Every year they change the Qual Course. each year they change up the course and make it a little harder. Now I usually clean the target but there are others that have a hard time especially with a revolver.

15 yard line. No movement.a. From the holster, draw and fire 2 rounds to the body, perform a speed reload and fire 1 round to the body in 10 seconds. Holster.b. From the holster, draw and fire 2 rounds to the body and 1 round to the head in 6 seconds. Remain at the ready position.c. From the ready, raise and fire 2 rounds to the body and 1 round to the head in 6 seconds. Holster.d. From the holster, draw and fire 2 rounds to the body and 1 round to the head clearing the malfunction along the way in 10 seconds. (Tap, Rack, Assess)Loadout - empty chamber and a magazine with at least 4 rounds in the gun. Miss over 3 shots and FTQ.
I use a stock Smith & Wesson MP Compact FDE. The head target is deceiving because the target area is way smaller that the head.

Giffords and Soros are still pushing gun bans and will never stop.

GIFFORDS: Trump just effectively legalized machine guns​

https://giffords.org/press-release/2025/05/giffords-trump-just-effectively-legalized-machine-guns/




https://post.az.gov/sites/default/files/2023-05/8.2.22 - Firearms, 2023 Annual Handgun Qualification.docx_.pdf
 

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GerSan69 said:
Buzzard, I'm not picking on you, I just got as far as your post and thought, "Enough!"
I have no doubt that Bush 43 and Congress thought they were getting some sort of auxiliary force of retired cops to jump into action when the nation needed them. Now, I don't know who wanted this LEOSA thing in the first place, but you can bet it was concocted by some IACP types who wanted this for themselves but had to drag the rest of us into it to make their case "legitimate."
In practice, though, that "auxiliary" thing is nothing but pure hogwash. I've been to a lot of places, both during my LE career and in the past 11 years of retirement. I'm here to tell y'all, most active-duty cops really have no use for us old retirees. In most places, in fact, they don't want to see us, hear from us, or have anything to do with us. There isn't a big "club" of cops where anyone with a badge is welcome (other than the International Police Association, which is more like a bunch of guys who host cops from other countries in their homes when the foreigners are traveling. It's real big in Europe.) Hell, in some places, like here in AZ, the on-duty cops are downright borderline hostile to everyone, especially retirees. I stopped getting the Arizona LEOSA card because even the guy who I paid to qualify me was really "snooty." And they'd probably drop everything to put one of us in cuffs first if we, God forbid, tried to "help" with an arrest.
Really, I don't care about all that. I don't need to talk to these new cops that are less interested in policing than they are in moving on to something more "profitable." But all you guys who have a chip on your shoulder because you think people like me got some sort of "special privilege" that you don't get, don't know the half of it. If anything, YOU have more of a privilege than anyone, you just are too PO'ed to see it.
(And I'm not looking for sympathy - God, no. Just tired of the foolish direction these conversations inevitably go because everyone hates the cops instead of the politicians that are telling those cops what to do or not to do, and folks keep voting them in to office!)
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".....moving on to something more "profitable"....."; yup, the current group seem to operate on the same level as firemen, How can I game the system. jmo!
 
UFGator said:
No permit required at all for open carry in TN. I don’t actually agree. I’d like to see those who have no training get some, especially regarding legal issues. It is hard to paint everyone with a broad brush but I know people who think they can shoot someone who walks up to their car, without a weapon. Or, is stealing their car in their driveway. Or someone who is stealing their lawn mower.

The purpose of LEOSA as originally conceived was to enable retired LE, military police and others who met specific requirements to carry in every state. If you are participating in this discussion I would urge you to read the entire statute. You’ll be left with some questions.

It wasn’t supported by many agencies including mine due to liability. Finally, they had to issue a “firearms ID card” and the agency who qualifies you annually sometimes issues a card to go along with your agency card. Honestly, with the spread of reciprocity, it almost makes the LEOSA card unnecessary. As for the states who offer no reciprocity, I have no plans to visit any of them. But, not everyone can say that.
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Roger that!
 
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