Hi guys, here I am again, with another question the ctrl+f could't answer: anyone knows what this is
?
I stumbled upon another one of these, apparently older but with the same code NJR and as I searched the thread I couldn't find any answer...here the pics
My guess is some S&W of the 39 or 59 series, anyone know more?
Still a blank - but guessing something for a European contract. Cheating on that since we know where Ranxerox lives...
To review the obvious, it's a Federal Man holster with an unusually wide (2 1/4 inch?) belt loop.
If it were a modern holster, with that wide profile, we'd guess it was for a light mounted pistol.
Even enlarged, I can't make out the stamping on the back of the thumb break paddle. PAT something? That might provide a clue if not simply a reference to the 1957 thumb break patent 2,917,213.
Still a blank - but guessing something for a European contract. Cheating on that since we know where Ranxerox lives...
To review the obvious, it's a Federal Man holster with an unusually wide (2 1/4 inch?) belt loop.
If it were a modern holster, with that wide profile, we'd guess it was for a light mounted pistol.
Even enlarged, I can't make out the stamping on the back of the thumb break paddle. PAT something? That might provide a clue if not simply a reference to the 1957 thumb break patent 2,917,213.
Thanks, it's PAT #2,917,213 no idea what that could mean...and no idea what NJR is, I found nothing. My guess is still S&W 39-59...
US Patent #2,917,213 for thumb break retention strap and an adjustable belt loop -- all expressed in patent lingo gibberish.
By G. Richard Bucheimer and the venerable Al Kippen -- with a reference to Chic Gaylord.
Picture is two pages from the patent combined.
US Patent #2,917,213 for thumb break retention strap and an adjustable belt loop -- all expressed in patent lingo gibberish.
By G. Richard Bucheimer and the venerable Al Kippen -- with a reference to Chic Gaylord.
Picture is two pages from the patent combined.
Even knowing the Beretta was a .32/.380, I was fooled on the proportions of the back view.
The strap suggests a pistol without a hammer like a previous holster guessed to fit something like an H&K P7 or P9 - but the holster looks too big for P7 and not big enough for a P9. Other suggestions?
Or maybe it's P-35 size with the strap located at the request of a bulk order customer. Is that a Fast Action?
Even knowing the Beretta was a .32/.380, I was fooled on the proportions of the back view.
The strap suggests a pistol without a hammer like a previous holster guessed to fit something like an H&K P7 or P9 - but the holster looks too big for P7 and not big enough for a P9. Other suggestions?
Or maybe it's P-35 size with the strap located at the request of a bulk order customer. Is that a Fast Action?
The 35 on the pic fits but I don't feel it's the gun the holster is designed for. By Sig der 200- series the trigger guard won't fit, i think I'll stick with my S&W 39-59 guess
A black number 006 holster for fit code #14 - a 4 inch S&W K frame.
P.S. I searched for a meaning for the "C." Perhaps C for a belt clip as used with some other models.
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New guy here. Great thread.
I have the same holster w/number series on it ending w/"C". I'm thinking/guessing that the "C" means "coated" as in the old style patent leather shoes. I've seen a few examples of black holsters with the same number series sans the "C" and they are regular black leather.
The "C" marked holster seems to be cut so that the face of the leather is inside the holster (reversed) and the back side has a patent coating sewn on which is pretty shiny. This is exposed for view.
You can see the difference when looking at the belt loop of each holster variety. "C" designated holsters have the leather "face" exposed to view with stitching around the loop perimeter. Non "C" holsters have the leather back side exposed and no stitching around the loop perimeter.
The letter suffix on a J.M.B. model number is its finish, so you were on the right track. Here "C" means 'Clarino' which was a non-woven (like a mat) material with a skin of glossy polymer to resemble patent leather. Real patent leather is expensive and a pain to maintain so Clarino became popular; originally a shoe material for such as sailors. Goddawful stuff to work with as a gunleather maker but suited J.M.B.'s very crude approach to making gunleather to a price point.
I've no J.M.B. product with the Clarino face so here's one from Shoemaker (like J.M.B. Tex focused on the uniform market; unlike J.M.B. his was a quality maker in the Western school tradition).
The OP has asked if I would post up a new find, which is the only known print ad (and not catalogs are known) of related company Thompson Leather Products. It was founded in '69 by a former VP of Bucheimer-Clark when the latter was sold as part of J.M. Bucheimer to Tandy; the founder promptly died at the end of '72. We have images of all its products except the one shown at upper right so a surprisingly large number of Thompson holsters and belts and pouches have survived into the present day. They are styled and constructed as if the designer, probably Earl Clark of B-C, was charged with changing every little detail to distinguish Thompsons from B-Cs, such as the many pointed leather shapes that typically are round, and the basketweave, and the mounting of the snap stud on the holster.
The Thompson line was absorbed by both the B-C and J.M.B. lines but by the end of the '70s the Bucheimer companies descended into chaos that the rest of us (Bianchi) didn't know about then. Charles Tandy also died, 1978, by which time an outsider had got his claws into both companies; and by the early 1980s J.M.B. was not the original company and it was bankrupted by the end of the '80s.
Be aware that J.M.B. police leather, and B-C leather were made very differently; J.M.B. used a painted leather without forming (so like all the makers of the East) and B-C made its products with full grain leather that was detailed in the same class as a Bianchi (so like all the makers of the West). Thompson followed the Western school in this regard. Their products are always prefixed with a B (means 'black' in Bucheimer-ese) and a T for Thompson. Followed by the finish then the model number. This practice continued in the Bucheimer brands: BT prefixes on the models that came from the Thompson original line.
And -- a reminder of the Clark Coachella, CA line with the same stagecoach marking and model numbering system previously discussed.
The holster business was an incestuous affair back then!!
Our Canadian compatriot who has several examples is working on a Thompson fit chart. I had expected the Bucheimer Thompson (BT) models to have the same fit code -- but they don't.
OK, I couldn't find this B-C holster listed in the Thread, so I figured I'd add it to the database. This is a Bucheimer-Clark (Valencia, Calif) Model 61-12LH. It's all suede with a belt clip. This holster, along with the F.M. Pitt Co. 6-round basket weave cartridge holder (actual maker unknown), were carried daily by my wife's grandfather. He was an LEO and the Chief of Detectives in Montebello and Downey, CA in the 1950's thru 1970s. The holster was for his Model 15-2 snubby (ca. 1962) with Pachmayr grip adapter. The .38 Special ammo is from A-Merc in the 70s...why he had this junk ammo in his cartridge holster is a mystery. Enjoy!
Mil. & Pol., K Series, Combat [Same numbers used for Colt Revolvers in later catalogs]
25 = 2”
45 = 4”
55 = 5”
65 = 6”
65 = 652 65F = 6” .38 SPEC. MILITARY & POLICE Perfect Fit holster
The Guardian thumb break holsters observed sometimes vary, with numbers similar to - but different - than the later Federal Man thumb break holster 3 digit numbers.
I recall that "HD" has come up before with no definitive answer but likely referring to the Smith & Wesson Heavy Duty 38-44.
Although the ad/catalog copy has been posted previously, I've neglected adding the early Guardian fit codes to the list. I updated the pdf in the first page of the thread to this 2024 version.
Showing Federal Man also so all can work out the transitions from Guardian numbers to Federal Man!! [Colt DS #920 became #200. 940 became 400. 944 became 440. But it's not a firm rule.]
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Bucheimer Guardian – first thumb snap holster 1950’s
3 digit fit codes evolved to Federal Man codes. “S” for swivel.
200 = Colt Det Spec Cobra 2”
201 = Colt Det Spec Cobra 3”
205 = Colt Diamondback 2 ½”
210 = Colt Diamondback 4”
215 = Colt Python
220 = Colt Python, Trooper MK III 4”
225 = Colt OP, MK III
230 = Colt Police Positive 4”
300 = S&W Chief, Charter Arms 2”
301 = S&W Chief, Charter Arms 3”
305 = S&W Regulation Police 4”
310 = S&W Model 19 2 ½”
315 = S&W Model 10,12,15 2”
320 = S&W Model 10, 12, 15 4”
325 = S&W Model 15, 19 4”
330 = S&W Model 57, 58, 28, 29 4”
250 = Colt Commander
255 = Colt 45 Gov’t, 38 Super
355 = S&W Model 39, 59
400 = Browning High Power
450 = Walther P-38
455 = Walther PPKS
Reminder that the master list PDF is searchable but that some art and interpretation is required to determine what a mystery holster might have been made for.
I was looking for a concealer for a Model 65 3 inch barrel when I saw this one advertised as for k frame "2-2 1/2 or similar". I took a chance and ordered it because it looks long enough for the 3". It's marked C-1. I've got a C-15 that's made for a 2" k frame. Anyone know what a C-1 is made for?
Last edited by stonebuster; 03-05-2024 at 08:05 PM.
I was looking for a concealer for a Model 65 3 inch barrel when I saw this one advertised as for k frame "2-2 1/2" or similar. I took a chance and ordered it because it looks long enough for the 3". It's marked C-1. I've got a C-15 that's made for a 2" k frame. Anyone know what a C-1 is made for?
First appearance I have of the Concealer from J.M. Bucheimer is their 1976 catalogue. For reasons only SG688 w/b able to explain, the -1 is not listed (the 'C' is for Concealer; the Bucheimer people were out of their minds when they developed their numbering systems (plural)).
Thank you for the replies. I've read all the compiled Bucheimer info on this forum through undoubtedly many hours of research. If you two can't crack the C-1 code, nobody can. I will let you know if it fits the S&W Model 65-2 3 inch.
I've got another Concealer, BC-14RU, not on the list. Seems to be identical to my C-14s except heavier/thicker leather. It's black as indicated by the "B". Fits my 4" Service Six, Model 10 & 64 bull barrels.
The holster arrived today and shows absolutely no signs of use. Maybe that's because the owner couldn't figure out what it fits. I tried the 3" Model 65 and the barrel stuck out about 1/2" or less. The gun didn't sit deep enough to snap it. The mold seemed to fit the k frame and it seems to be for a 2 1/2" barrel. I tried the Pre Model 10 which sat deep enough to snap but the barrel was about 3/4" from the bottom of holster. I tried the Model 65 3" in the BC-15 the Pre Model 10 resides in and of course the barrel stuck out about 1" below the bottom but it would snap. I also tried a Model 64-5 and got the same results as the 65. So my choices are to carry the Pre Model 10 in the "C-1" & the Model 65 in the BC-15 with the barrel sticking out 1/2" OR keep buying 2 1/2" guns until I find one that fits this holster properly Or carry the Model 65 in the "C-1" unsnapped because it's pretty secure without snapping.
I've got another Concealer, BC-14RU, not on the list. Seems to be identical to my C-14s except heavier/thicker leather. It's black as indicated by the "B". Fits my 4" Service Six, Model 10 & 64 bull barrels.
I'm going with RU added to the existing number 14 for fixed sight S&W, as with RU added to 53 for the adjustable sight K frames, so that 14RU is for Ruger DA revolvers with fixed sights. I'm adding it to the list!!! Thanks
The holster (C1)arrived today and shows absolutely no signs of use. Maybe that's because the owner couldn't figure out what it fits.
I tried the 3" Model 65 and the barrel stuck out about 1/2" or less. The gun didn't sit deep enough to snap it. The mold seemed to fit the k frame and it seems to be for a 2 1/2" barrel.
....
If not for something like a fixed sight Ruger like the Speed Six or even the SP101 .........
I'm going to jump out on a limb and suggest the holster was made for the FBI Model 10 M&P .38 with a 2 1/2 barrel.
The model 65 won't fit deeply enough to snap because the holster is molded for a .38 Special cylinder. A .357 won't fit in my Hank Sloan.
So, run down to the corner store and pick up a 2 1/2 inch M&P.
If not for something like a fixed sight Ruger like the Speed Six or even the SP101 .........
I'm going to jump out on a limb and suggest the holster was made for the FBI Model 10 M&P .38 with a 2 1/2 barrel.
The model 65 won't fit deeply enough to snap because the holster is molded for a .38 Special cylinder. A .357 won't fit in my Hank Sloan.
So, run down to the corner store and pick up a 2 1/2 inch M&P.
My SP101 2.25" 357 fits nicely into a B-01-004-42. My Speed Six 2 3/4" 357 does fit the C-1 pretty well and snaps. Barrel doesn't protrude out bottom. Not made for them but fit well.
Last edited by stonebuster; 03-07-2024 at 02:25 PM.
I'm going with RU added to the existing number 14 for fixed sight S&W, as with RU added to 53 for the adjustable sight K frames, so that 14RU is for Ruger DA revolvers with fixed sights. I'm adding it to the list!!! Thanks
Or carry the Model 65 in the "C-1" unsnapped because it's pretty secure without snapping.
Linear Mode
