Jim Cirillo and Jelly Bryce questions

crazyphil · Feb 22, 2015

I have read that Jim carried a Model 10 with 4" bull barrel as his primary on his right hip, a Model 10 with 4" pencil barrel on his left hip crossdraw, and a snub nosed Cobra in his pocket. Does anyone know what kind of holsters? Photos or descriptions?
It has also been written that Jelly Bryce designed a FBI concealment holster. Does anyone have a photo or description?

lawandorder · Feb 22, 2015

In one of his books Cirillo said he used " two regular holsters" for his 4 inch M&Ps, he also said he carried a ppk in a "crotch holster". Did not indicate if he used a holster for the Colt he carried in his pocket.

Bryce probably used an S. D. Myres Threepersons style during his OKCPD and early FBI days. Several of his contemporaries were confirmed to have used those.
There is a Heiser holster, I believe it is their style 415, that is referred to as the FBI holster but never heard who designed it. It is a Threepeson style also. The only holster I know of attributed to an SA is the one designed by Hank Sloan.
Turnerriver or Larry Wack can probably add to or correct this.

crazyphil · Feb 23, 2015

Thank you lawanorder. I wonder what "two regular holsters" were?
I read somewhere that Bryce did use Myres holster but the concealment holster he designed for the FBI covered the trigger guard.

lawandorder · Feb 23, 2015

Here is a link to................

............Larry Wack's outstanding web site on the history of the FBI. There are many images of the SAs of the 1930s, some showing gun leather.

Home - Dusty Roads Of An FBI Era

hogblue · Feb 23, 2015

I was in basic Deputy U.S.Marshal training at FLETC late 84 early 85. Jim Cirrilo had retired from the NYPD and was instructing firearms at FLETC. He taught several of my classes. It was a real experience.

A year later I attended firearms instructor school at FLETC. Jim was there and helped runus through the paces. A year or so later I was there on detail assisting permanent instructors in teaching firearms to basic students from various agencies. That is when I had pleasure of teaching alongside Jim and getting pointers from him. He was always willing to stay behind and give advice well after hours.

Always had a good story or two about being on the stakeout squad too.

SpartanDCI · Apr 10, 2015

HogBlue

I was at FLETC during early 1984 and Jim Cirillo was our basic firearms marksmanship instructor for a CI course. He taught us many of the secrets of hitting a FLETC man size target at 50 yards with a 2.5 inch Model 19 snub, many which had the rear sight cranked so far up that you could pass a couple quarters under the rear sight assembly!

Jim used to talk to many of us on break, and he let us shoot his Dan Wesson 44 Mag and Devel custom model 59. He was instrumental in getting several agencies to adopt the US Marshal's modified/chopped 870 for protective details at least and he could unsnap a slung chopped 870 that was under his 70's leisure suit jacket in the blink of an eye and crank off 5 #4 shots into 5 targets at 21 feet. His ability shut up many of the "suits"I worked for who did not think that shotgun would be accurate.

We paid him back by buying him dinner at Two Brothers Pizzeria down the road in Brunswick, and he often let us fish in the pond behind the 50 yard berm at the old pistol range on Saturdays.

He was a great guy, who could get a little boastful at times, but he could always back it up with action. He also had a big heart! Sorry that he and his wife are both gone.

Good Times!

rock_castle · May 14, 2015

Great thread. Tell us more about these two legends, please.

crazyphil · May 18, 2015

OK rock castle here is a little more. My favorite Jim Cirillo story from, if I remember right, Paul Kirchner's excellent Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad. A reporter was interviewing the Stakeout Squad Commander. The Commander says the men in my unit always issue the standard challenge. Police! Drop your weapons. And they only open fire after the gunman turns on them with gun in hand. Jim Cirillo, who was sitting there, interjected it's like some of them don't hear us. The Commander asks Why do you think that is Jim - stress of the moment?
Nah, Cirillo replied, I think it's drowned out by the sound of our gunfire. rock, if you like this one I will tell you my favorite Jelly Bryce story too.

jimmyj · May 22, 2015

I have wondered why Jim did not use two M10 HBs or two M10 standard barrels instead of one of each ?

crazyphil · May 22, 2015

jimmyj I have read that he refitted the primary model 10 with a .357 cylinder and a 4" heavy Douglas barrel for more stopping power. He probably left the crossdraw standard model 10 as is for backup. Someone else can probably add to and/or correct this.

jimmyj · May 22, 2015

crazyphil said:
jimmyj I have read that he refitted the primary model 10 with a .357 cylinder and a 4" heavy Douglas barrel for more stopping power. He probably left the crossdraw standard model 10 as is for backup. Someone else can probably add to and/or correct this.

In the era of Jim, were "K" Frame .357 cylinders available ? Also were the M10 frames of that era strong enough for .357 pressure ?

crazyphil · May 22, 2015

jimmyj The story is in Jim's book Guns, Bullets & Gunfights. Apparantly at the time the issue round was the 158-Gr. Round Nose Lead at 747 FPS. Jim wanted more power. I don't know if he shot .357 in it, but the .357 cylinder would take more pressure than the .38 cylinder. I believe the frames on the model 19 and model 10 were (are) the same. Someone who has the book might be able to clarify what Jim said. I gave mine away.

jimmyj · May 22, 2015

Jim Cirillo NYPD SOU 1968-1973 (I finally looked his years up) so .357 Magnum M19, M27, and M28 were available. Possible the M10 was the only service revolver allowed on NYPD ?

6518John · May 22, 2015

From the "Gun & Bullets" Book

I refitted a Model 10 .38 frame with a Model 19 .357 cylinder and a 4-inch Douglas barrel. I then fitted a Bo-Mar rib over the barrel. This hybrid allowed me to shoot accurately and fast with close to .357 power. I used ahome-brewed special load-a 125-grain cup-point half-jacketed wadcutter traveling between 1,250 and 1,300 fps. I went to a flat-edge cup point due to the fact that in many confrontations, I was only offered head shots-the gunmen who did not give up when challenged generally ducked for cover, leaving only their heads or a portion of their heads for a target.

jframejoey · Mar 16, 2016

I wanna hear the Jelly story!

crazyphil · Mar 16, 2016

jframejoey: I better not. I don't need another infraction.
Try Googling Jelly Bryce quotes.

triaxle · Mar 16, 2016

Tell the story.

keith44spl · Mar 16, 2016

In the era of Jim, were "K" Frame .357 cylinders available ? Also were the M10 frames of that era strong enough for .357 pressure ?

Jimmy,

I believe that Smith built some Model 10s (10-6) in .357 Magnum
for the New York State Police in or around 1972.

Before they came out with the model 13.

Su Amigo,
Dave

Sayoc01 · Mar 16, 2016

I wonder....if they had the sidearms of today ....would they still carry revolvers or would they start edc automatics!!
Jim

crazyphil · Mar 16, 2016

Sayoc01 If my memory is correct Cirillo went for a Glock in later years.

Jim Cirillo and Jelly Bryce questions

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