Hoyt Crossdraw Holster

crazyphil · #1 06-17-2016, 02:53 PM

I have this old Hoyt crossdraw. On the back in simply says .357
4 which I take to mean .357 magnum with 4" barrell.
I wonder if it was made for K frame like Model 19 or N frame like
Model 27. Only difference is the wider gap with the N frame.
Cylinders fit into the recesses ok on both. Both are a little
difficult to get in to the holster, but both pop out easily when
pulled.
I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with this Hoyt Model
and know if perhaps it was made prior to the Model 19, in which
case I would know it was made for the N frame. Any other info
you may have would be appreciated.
Photos left to right: Front view holding Model 19. Side view
with Model 19. Front view holding Model 27. Side view with
Model 27. Back of holster. Thanks.

Naphtali · #2 06-17-2016, 09:32 PM

Good news. Spring holsters, as this appears to be, allow use of many firearms. While I am unfamiliar with this specific holster, Bianchi offered their CD123/1224/125/126/127/128/129 series stipulating that revolvers AND semiautomatics would function in the same holster so long as barrel lengths were within Bianchi's specifications.

Hope this helps.

JayCeeNC · #3 06-17-2016, 10:43 PM

Here's an old Hoyt crossdraw with thumb snap, but mine is clearly marked.

bronco45 · #4 06-18-2016, 01:46 AM

There's another variation of that Hoyt out there, it was worn By the Idaho State Police up until 1980. I wore one in 1970-72 Dept. issue. Not good for security easy to snatch. Comfortable for riding in a car.

Yours appears to be made for the Model 19! It fits better, The second cut in the leather pulled the holster in close to the body but offered the grip of the weapon to anyone that was standing in front of you. Easy to lose your weapon in a fight.This happened to a friend of mine, fighting a drunk and when the handcuffs were on the drunk,the officer checked his equipment and the gun was missing. We found it a few agonizing minutes later laying in a gutter on the edge of a street.

crazyphil · #5 06-18-2016, 02:53 AM

Naphtali yes it has a very strong spring. I have others with springs such
as Brauer Bros., Lewis, & Berns-Martin. They will all accept multiple size
guns.
JayCeeNC your markings confirms that they expected we could use the
holsters for whatever works.
bronco45 Seems whenever we find something with an advantage,
such as confort when seated in the car, there is an off-setting
dis-advantage like the easy snatch.
Thanks you 3 for your insights.

turnerriver · #6 06-18-2016, 03:43 PM

I generally think that .357 indicates N frame or large frame revolvers and .38 indicates medium frame revolvers. I also believe that holster was made before the model 19, the patent dates to 1938 although that design was still popular in the 1950's. Only guesses based on observation, nothing definitive to back them up.
Regards,
turnerriver

crazyphil · #7 06-18-2016, 05:43 PM

John that makes perfect sense to me. If only one S&W .357 frame size
no need to elaborate. And the 1938 patent nails it. However as bronco45
said the Model 19 fit does look a little better. Not such a wide gap.

jimmyj · #8 06-21-2016, 04:55 PM

That style holster we called "Take My Gun" holster back "In The Day"

MygunisaS&Wrevolver · #9 06-24-2016, 04:22 PM

The "Take My Gun" comment is definately correct. Also if you were lined up on the firing line with other shooters and used the cross draw configuration you would sweep your weapon across the others to get on target. I think that's why many agencies including Washington State Patrol got rid of them.

crazyphil · #10 06-24-2016, 06:33 PM

"Take my gun" is definately the down side for cross draw. As is sweeping
the other people on the firing line. (I prohibit them in my classes.)
However cross draw is good when driving or when you have rifle slung
over strong side shoulder. Off hand, I can't think of any other good uses.

Jessie · #11 06-25-2016, 07:47 AM

I have the same type of design holster except in a shoulder rig.
Carried my Colt Commander in it, once.
I was fishing a stream in the woods and returned to the cabin to find out the holster was empty!
I retraced my steps and luckily found the gun in the leaves.
I never trusted it again after that. Perhaps with a thumb strap or thumb break it would be more secure.

Aircrewman · #12 06-30-2016, 11:04 PM

It's really something to see about the norms of years gone by. The old "cross draw" was "de rigueur" of many police departments in the 50's and early 60's. My understanding of the reason(s) for the cross draw were, believe it or not, 1. security. The idea was that the way the holster was worn was forward of the left arm for right handed shooters and forward of the right arm for left handed shooters. In this way the officer could protect the gun and if a perpetrator was facing the officer he/she would se the threat and take appropriate action. They could cover the gun or in some way protect it. 2. No one, theoretically, could sneak up and take the gun from behind. 3. Officers were expected to draw the gun in a safe manner so swinging the gun around from the draw to come onto a target wasn't quite considered unsafe.....

This information came from my Father-in-law who was a Burbank Police Department Reserve Officer Captain. He carried a cross draw holster for his Colt Official Police 6" 38 revolver. It made sense at the time. Of course, it was a different time in this country.

It seems that over the years the holster showed its disadvantages and fell from favor. No one would use one now for obvious reasons. The old holsters were for the most part well made and functional to a certain extent. Its just one of those holsters that seemed to be a good design at the time..... They sure seem popular now...at least if you see them for sale....

Mike in Reedley · #13 07-01-2016, 01:48 AM

My guess would be it's for a Colt .357, predecessor to the Trooper.

Hoyt holsters were hard to come by when I started. I ordered a muzzle forward drop one for a 4" Security Six. By the time I received it, 586's had just come out and I had one, so I just crammed the L frame into it. If the safety strap was unsnapped and you bumped the butt, the gun would practically leap out of the holster. After about five years of being overloaded, the spring broke and I went to a more secure holster. Lucky I didn't loose it.

rustythread · #14 12-13-2017, 07:57 PM

I appreciate all the posts in this forum, and this thread in particular today. Just got in a Hoyt (El Monte, Patent pending, so what date?) " 38 6 " crossdraw in immaculate condition. (Also appreciate honest neighbors, since the carrier consistently passes my clearly marked address and delivers way down the road.)

Anyway, posting pictures from seller.

rednichols · #15 12-13-2017, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyphil

I have this old Hoyt crossdraw. On the back in simply says .357
4 which I take to mean .357 magnum with 4" barrell.
I wonder if it was made for K frame like Model 19 or N frame like
Model 27. Only difference is the wider gap with the N frame.
Cylinders fit into the recesses ok on both. Both are a little
difficult to get in to the holster, but both pop out easily when
pulled.
I'm wondering if anyone has had experience with this Hoyt Model
and know if perhaps it was made prior to the Model 19, in which
case I would know it was made for the N frame. Any other info
you may have would be appreciated.
Photos left to right: Front view holding Model 19. Side view
with Model 19. Front view holding Model 27. Side view with
Model 27. Back of holster. Thanks.

Phil, that particular Hoyt is from Dick Hoyt's earliest days, when he was in El Monte CA 1940-1960 at which point he shifted from there to Costa Mesa (and in 1980 his son-in-law shifted it to Coupeville WA). Clues: for reasons we can have fun speculating about, he often stamped his patent number over the city in this era (perhaps he was about to move house and didn't have a stamp yet); and the very odd way he personally applied the basketweave 'set stamping'; though with the latter one does encounter his second era in Costa Mesa CA (I have a forward draw from this era). Basketweave on Hoyts changed to the conventional pattern in the 1960s; I even own two of the large brass plates used to imprint the holsters in volume.

Dick was once E.E. Clark's (Clark Holster) sales agent and went into business for himself by 1940 after his own patents issued. Of which both are shoulder holsters :-).

My holster holds K,L,N quite well but is stamped 357 HP, with me expecting HP to be Highway Patrolman. I like it best with the L frame in it (so Python equivalent).

wheelgun610 · #16 12-14-2017, 03:53 PM

Here's Hoyt's patent drawing #2109232, which if I understand correctly, was submitted Nov. 18, 1935. As Red mentions, this patent was for a shoulder holster. I've got a floral carved one, minus the shoulder harness. I need to get photos of a lot of my gun leather to post here....

Mark

Watchdog · #17 12-14-2017, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyphil

However cross draw is good when driving or when you have rifle slung over strong side shoulder. Off hand, I can't think of any other good uses.

Crossdraw is good for just about any situation where the wearer is seated. Lots of times when seated on a sofa or in an easy chair, your gun hand often falls naturally to just a few inches from your gun.