Let's see your Audley holsters :-)

rednichols · May 19, 2017

My latest effort is learning more about Audley. His mark was no help (no initials, no state) but his patent (application in 1912 issued as a patent 1914) directed me to Francis H. Audley of New York.

He was an Irish immigrant and harness maker born Ireland 1852 who, after his patent issued 1914, promptly died 1916. Naturalised Oct 1872 in New York.

These pics are from the 'net; let's see your own Audleys

fat tom · May 20, 2017

I only have a couple and they are for Colt semi-autos. The Audleys for revolvers just don't appeal to me for some reason. This first one is for the Colt Government Model.

And at the opposite end of the spectrum is one for the Colt 1908 Vest Pocket.

The one I'm missing is for the Colt 1908 .32 hammerless. I see them for sale fairly often on ebay,but being the tightwad that I am,I'm just not willing to spend the bucks it takes to buy a nice example. Don't know why they command a much higher price than those for the .45acp or the .25acp,but they do.

f.t.

crazyphil · May 20, 2017

I don't have an Audley but there are a ton of them on the big Bay.
A couple of items in my Audley notes that you probably already know:
John Bianchi talks about Audley's Clamshell in Blue Steel & Gunleather,
Page 14.
I think it was Vintage Gunleather that said Audley was taken over by
Folsom Arms Co. (therefore the Folsom Audley holster). They were
then absorbed by Cortland Boot Jack Co. and eventually became
Jay-Pee Holster Co.

turnerriver · May 20, 2017

According to Luger Holsters & Accessories of the 20th Century Francis Audley died on May 10, 1916 at 67 years old, Folsom acquired the company and manufactured Audley holsters labeled Official Folsom Audley.

4" S&W .357 with leather lining & sewn in sight protector.

.38/.44

New York State holster.

S&W HF- Heavy Frame .22 Target ?

Pocket auto holsters

Audley pocket holster with button tab

This one is unusual.

crazyphil · May 20, 2017

All of your holsters are in such immaculate condition John.
These specimens are gorgeous.

SG-688 · May 20, 2017

Two other Audley style makers: Bucheimer and De Mayo

Picture from 1968 Bucheimer ad.

Page from 1953 Stoeger catalog. Sure-Lock police holsters.

Walter Rego · May 20, 2017

I have a few. The one for the Colt M1903/M1908 auto is a bit unusual as it has a drop loop and would hang much lower than the one that Turnerriver shows above. The one shown with the Remington PA51 also fits a Savage pocket auto nicely.

rednichols · May 20, 2017

SG-688 said:
Two other Audley style makers: Bucheimer and De Mayo

Picture from 1968 Bucheimer ad.

Page from 1953 Stoeger catalog. Sure-Lock police holsters.

Very much a New York style of holster, and the Eastern States clustered around it.

Which reminds we shouldn't forget Colt: circa 1960 Colt had a line of holsters and it included this style. Their model numbers were prefixed by their supplier: H for Hunter, O for Ojala, W for Wolfram, and C (the police uniform holsters) I theorise for Clark (the first three I'm absolutely certain about, the C prefix I'm deducing; it was around then that Clark merged with Bucheimer).

Police holsters, like concealment holsters, had an Eastern School and a Western School of design. They looked different, they were assmbled differently, and they worked differently. Best example in the concealment area is Gaylord vs Bianchi in the early 60s; Gaylord's was entirely original and emulated by Eastern makers including Theodore, Alessi, DeSantis, et al, while Bianchi's emulated Heiser which was also in the West and by the '70s Galco was emulating Bianchi.

rednichols · May 20, 2017

Thanks for all the inputs! I originallly located Mr. Audley the hard way, completely forgetting to consult vintagegunleather's site first. The good news is that it validates my search model which includes looking at the original Censuses that show the person's occupation; because we came up with the same person. The bad news is that I did it the hard way because I've used vintagegunleather's generally very good 'maker's mark' info before (the sole exception so far being its coverage of Berns-Martin) yet didn't think of doing so this time.

That leaves me with only one worthy maker unexplored: Lewis in L.A. I simply don't have enough information to identify him, unless I discover that he was issued holster patents (but not so far). Everyone's help would be appreciated! On the other hand he was a very minor player and The Book is not meant to be what's called a 'roundup' but instead is focused on the makers who made a difference.

Some makers will make it in on an 'honourable mention' basis if they produced an otherwise novel design. But not just because they were in business during the 20th century, or made a few out of their garage in that time. In fact, if they hadn't made their mark by 1980 they won't be in it anyway, including plastic and fabric and hybrid holsters. That can be left for another book of the future, likely not by me

.

turnerriver · May 21, 2017

I don't usually check my Colt holsters when posting here-as Dad Longworth says in One Eyed Jacks you shouldn't mix them. But since Red brought it up, here are 3 C series Colt safety lock holsters, the second photo shows the two sizes of logo stamps.
Red, I'm not at all certain that these were made by Clark but I can't offer any other theories. They are very heavy well made holsters.
Regards,
turnerriver

SG-688 · May 21, 2017

I forgot. Colt.

I don't have any holsters - just lots of old magazines.

rednichols · May 21, 2017

crazyphil said:
I don't have an Audley but there are a ton of them on the big Bay.
A couple of items in my Audley notes that you probably already know:
John Bianchi talks about Audley's Clamshell in Blue Steel & Gunleather,
Page 14.
I think it was Vintage Gunleather that said Audley was taken over by
Folsom Arms Co. (therefore the Folsom Audley holster). They were
then absorbed by Cortland Boot Jack Co. and eventually became
Jay-Pee Holster Co.

Turnerriver, as Phil says here, Courtlandt Boot Jack was a maker of this holster type. A hasty search indicates they're still in business in Flushing, NY. Perhaps the C for them, or even just for Colt. I'm still speculating

.

Here's a thread that Phil started last year, suggesting that on forums we are in an endless circle of info trades:

BUCHEIMER HOLSTERS

One will notice that forums are dominated by speculation (and sometimes detective work) vs getting the information directly from the source. That's in part because companies have a big investment in their legends: not only have they spent decades misinforming magazine writers (!) but appear to believe the misinformation is a key to their reputations.

To try to move beyond that, early this year I emailed EPS seeking to get 'the straight dope' about their history but had no reply. Which leaves us all poking around the documentary evidence instead. As we are here

.

sipowicz · May 21, 2017

I love collecting holsters but Audley enough, I don't have one.

crazyphil · May 23, 2017

Red, The Lewis Police Equipment Company was established in 1939.
They had 3 good decades. The 40s, 50s, and 60s. I think maybe
Bianchi, Safariland, and Galco all coming in to the market helped them
decide to retire.

I remember Jack Webb aka Joe Friday carried his snub nosed model 10
in a Lewis clip-on cross-draw.

Officer Malloy, on Adam 12, also used a Lewis to carry his off-duty
model 36.

I found a Lewis Police Special snap-on cross-draw made for a
2" .38. Picture below with my model 10 with 2" barrel.

rednichols · May 24, 2017

crazyphil said:
Red, The Lewis Police Equipment Company was established in 1939.
They had 3 good decades. The 40s, 50s, and 60s. I think maybe
Bianchi, Safariland, and Galco all coming in to the market helped them
decide to retire.

I remember Jack Webb aka Joe Friday carried his snub nosed model 10
in a Lewis clip-on cross-draw.

Officer Malloy, on Adam 12, also used a Lewis to carry his off-duty
model 36.

I found a Lewis Police Special snap-on cross-draw made for a
2" .38. Picture below with my model 10 with 2" barrel.

Thanks for that. I do have those actors recorded in my file with their Lewis holsters:

Martin Milner had a home in Fallbrook, which was 'home base' for all the Bianchi staffers, so we considered him a 'local'.

Likely I've mentioned that I recently learnt that Lorene Threepersons' great grandson lived there, too, until his death about 10 years ago.

Hunting 'round on the Net I discovered another collector posting on three different forums for more info about Lewis -- and none had replies several years later. Of all the makers who appear to be 'lost to history' one wouldn't have expected it to be Lewis as the brand is quite collectible. For a period it looked as if Baker would be the unexpected one, considering the impact he and his holster had on the industry, but I've finally been able to put the pieces together there.

This (Lewis) is one mystery that can go unsolved

.

SG-688 · May 24, 2017

1936 short spring Clark

This image from a 1936 Clark flyer was a shock since the short spring has been considered a mark of the Lewis v. the Bucheimer Clark. If 1939 is correct for Lewis, then Clark was first for this style and the spring-post holster.

In real life as in reel life, both style holsters were often worn straight draw, as by Tom Selleck in Blue Bloods.

crazyphil · May 24, 2017

rednichols said:
Thanks for that. I do have those actors recorded in my file with their Lewis holsters:

View attachment 285510

View attachment 285511

Martin Milner had a home in Fallbrook, which was 'home base' for all the Bianchi staffers, so we considered him a 'local'.

Likely I've mentioned that I recently learnt that Lorene Threepersons' great grandson lived there, too, until his death about 10 years ago.

Hunting 'round on the Net I discovered another collector posting on three different forums for more info about Lewis -- and none had replies several years later. Of all the makers who appear to be 'lost to history' one wouldn't have expected it to be Lewis as the brand is quite collectible. For a period it looked as if Baker would be the unexpected one, considering the impact he and his holster had on the industry, but I've finally been able to put the pieces together there.

This (Lewis) is one mystery that can go unsolved .

Red I don't think that actor in your lower photo is Jack Webb.
Friday carried a snub nosed .38 in a shorter holster. That guy
might be his first partner Frank?

SG-688 · May 24, 2017

Dragging this thread further astray ...

Harry Morgan, as above, 4 inch CM.

Jack Webb with his 2 inch RB M&P in a Lewis. The arrestee is the great Don Dubbins.

Jack and Ben Alexander holstering his 6 inch M&P. Too dark to tell on the holster, but it is a split front spring holster. In the video, the holster slides very loosely on the narrow belt.

Photobucket is not cooperating, so I'll attach them through the forum.

Walter Rego · May 24, 2017

I too was influenced by seeing Lewis holsters on Dragnet and Adam12.

rednichols · May 24, 2017

SG-688 said:
Dragging this thread further astray ...

Harry Morgan, as above, 4 inch CM.

Jack Webb with his 2 inch RB M&P in a Lewis. The arrestee is the great Don Dubbins.

Jack and Ben Alexander holstering his 6 inch M&P. Too dark to tell on the holster, but it is a split front spring holster. In the video, the holster slides very loosely on the narrow belt.

Photobucket is not cooperating, so I'll attach them through the forum.

I started the thread drift over to Lewis, happy to have it

. Indeed Phil's sharp eye picked that it's Harry Morgan who's in my pic, which is snipped from the image in SG688's post. Tomato Tomahto, they're both Lewis holsters, though.

SG, get the sense that in your Clark catalogue pic, they were thinking to illustrate the draw (at left, all the way free; centre beginning the draw; at right, fully seated)? Otherwise it would scare me off buying one if I got the idea that Clark was saying all were acceptable carries

.

This or another flyer links Hoyt with Clark, too. All were SoCal makers; perhaps, then, Clark/Lewis/Hoyt were interconnected in some formal way, or perhaps just networking amongst themselves? Eventually Hoyt found its operations in Oregon, where A.E. Nelson made a near clone of the Hoyt (and of the B-M shoulder holster for SF Gun Exchange).

Let's see your Audley holsters :-)

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