A little Texas historical story - A. W. Brill Holsters

arabensburg · #**101** 02-05-2022, 02:33 AM

I could not resist this publication…….

The story goes according to my own synopsis….Hearing the gunfire, old Bill Lattimore and his boys ride to the rescue of Jack, the young cattleman, who is fighting for his life in the valley.

This story was written for the October 1923 issue of Grinstead’s Graphic, a magazine of the Hill Country of Texas. This month’s issue is about Kimble County, home to the community and County Seat of Junction, which would have liked to be called the deer capital of the world; however, that title goes to Llano, 78 miles to the east and home in 1923 to N J Rabensburg and family. (Junction and Llano, Texas are noted in the following year 1924 as two of the communities used by the A W Brill Company for their wholesale outreach program.)

Back to the story…..Jack and his cowman buddy Red were a team, who, unfortunately, met up with the Double Pothole gang of five cattle rustlers. Red and both horses have already met their demise and lay in a heap of blood before Jack, who was firing Red’s rifle at the gang until it emptied.

Jack managed to kill the leader and another horse before pulling his own rifle from its SCABBARD wedged between his horse and the ground. He continued firing until his rifle jammed on reloading.

Jack then made a draw of his own six-shooter and continued firing until it emptied. He managed to kill one more of the gang of thieves on the charge. Jack finally pulled Red’s pistol from his SCABBARD then found himself standing and shooting totally exposed to the onslaught of the remaining three.

Jack was moments away from meeting his maker when gunfire from elsewhere unexpectedly entered the scene like a clip from an old western movie. Old Bill Lattimore had retrieved his "old cannon" from its SCABBARD and along with the simultaneous gunfire from his fellow cattlemen saved the day for Jack. The Double Pothole gang was no more.

My conclusion….Scabbards are here and scabbards are there. They fit rifles, six shooters and pistols. There is apparently no distinction in Texas during those early years.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**102** 02-11-2022, 10:03 AM

I have no argument with the technological aspects of a holster (or a Texas scabbard), that is, the way it is assembled. I have little or no experience in this direction and thus, not qualified. However, if there is something concerning the overall design of a holster (or Texas scabbard), then I am confident about making comments.

Setting aside the technological and design aspects of a holster as noted above, I have been focusing as of late on the name of a holster as was formerly applied within the State of Texas. One might be getting tired of this subject, but I think it is significant.

My premise at the moment is that a “scabbard” was the word of choice for a handgun holder for about 100 years in Texas but not in the rest of the nation. The spanning years start in about 1850 and terminate for the most part around 1950. A recent post by one Smith and Wesson Forum member quoted the following:

“My dad always called ‘em scabbards.”

I am beginning to see a trend to this direction within the historical data such as newsprint and at least one period magazine. My source is the Portal of Texas History. If your ancestral roots were in Texas during those years, then your family probably called a handgun holder a “scabbard”. However, if you were an outsider, then “holster” was most likely your preferred word.

One series of examples can be found in the east Texas oil boom town of Gilmer during the 1930s. A merchant in that burg advertised a Christmas children’s toy cap gun set as a “pistol and scabbard”. However, the news reporter(s) for the Gilmer Mirror uses the word “holster” in numerous articles about local authorities drawing their handguns against the criminal element. My guess is the local merchant was a “born-and-raised” Texan and the news reporter, like so many others during those oil boom years, an import.

Such a premise might help to explain the dictionary’s definition of “scabbard”, which omits its use as a handgun holder. The reference gurus of yesteryear, who were employed by east coast publishing houses, were, thus, unaware of the expanded definition of the word “scabbard”, which had been used for many years in Texas. “Scabbard” as a handgun holder, therefore, may have been strictly a Texas definition not used or even known elsewhere.

The states, which surround and literally touch Texas, which are Louisiana, Arkansas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico, may have been affected by the expanded definition of the word “scabbard”; however, if I were to guess, “scabbard” as handgun holder was probably limited to the borders of Texas.

The US military may have had a great deal to do with the retirement of the word “scabbard” in Texas as a handgun holder. A number of returning veterans of World War II and the Korean Conflict had been wearing pistols and “holsters” as protective gear; therefore, it was appropriate to drop the archaic use of “scabbard” since it had no relevance outside the State of Texas, except as a protective cover for a sword, knife, or rifle.

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**103** 02-12-2022, 03:49 PM

Yes, you are correct, Red. I had seen on the internet images and written descriptions for “quick draw” sheathing and/or scabbards for knives and rifles. Several other leather companies across the country have adopted this same concept of concealed “quick draw” for handguns as well.

I do not think, however, this is a continued use or a revival of the word “scabbard” for a handgun holder or “holster” as in early Texas since the definition of a scabbard by Merriam-Webster still remains as follows:

“A sheath for a sword, dagger, or bayonet”.

Wikipedia’s definition is a little more descriptive and says:

“A scabbard is a sheath for holding a sword, knife, or other large blade. As well, rifles may be stored in a scabbard by horse riders.”

“Scabbard” is still not defined on the national or international scene as a handgun holder or ‘holster’ as was the case in Texas for many years. Maybe those leather companies adopting the “quick-draw” concept for a handgun should start a new trend.

I noticed that three of the quick-draw leather companies, which added to their line concealed handgun holders, hail from the states of Washington, New York, and the Carolinas. If any other companies doing the same were headquartered in Texas, then it might be easier to generate some momentum since Texas had a long-time history with “scabbards” for handguns.

If there are any other uses out there for “scabbards” as handgun holders, please let me know. I personally would like to see a revival since I am a fifth generation Texan, where “scabbards” for handguns had been a reality for many decades.

Please remember that Texas was a Republic, that is, a separate country for ten years and had a government with an elected President with a functioning army and navy. Prior to the Republic, there was a colonial period with coastal regions headed by Empresarios under the authority of the Empire of Mexico.

Texas may have, thus, developed a manner of speaking and thinking, which did not always mimic its bordering US neighbors. Hence, the word “scabbard” as a handgun holder was born in Texas during the beginning years of statehood (after 1846) and remained so for about 100 years even though it did not agree with national or international definitions.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**104** 02-13-2022, 05:23 PM

Well, I won the bid on Saturday, February 12, 2022 for an A W Brill holster (dark brown basket weave pattern) probably made by Charles W Kluge or possibly the "Mystery Man". If I were bidding against one of my fellow Smith and Wesson Forum members, then I apologize for my enthusiasm.

It will arrive on February 19th and then I too can look more closely (with a magnifying eye glass) at the stitching patterns since I now have both a N J Rabensburg holster and an earlier design, which both carry the A W Brill marker mark; and I still have in my possession, the A W Brill maker stamp (going to the Texas Ranger Museum and Hall of Fame in Waco, Texas), which was used reportedly on both.

I am still waiting to find a N J Rabensburg A W Brill marked holster with a basket weave pattern, which, of course, will have the liner attached. My earlier purchase was made without a liner, which is unusual and may be the only one as such to date.

The ultimate holster for me is to find and purchase a N J Rabensburg holster either marked or unmarked but prior to Rabensburg's move to Austin and before his official association with the A W Brill Company. For some reason, this holster remains elusive. I am excluding those N J Rabensburg made holsters for Captain Hughes and other peace officers on after 1906 and on or prior to 1911. These holsters are visible in photographs of the period but at some distance without any detailed closeups.

I have also been canvassing other holsters, which gets my heart rate into the danger zone. I am also intrigued with vintage and antique Mexican holsters, which appears to be the basis for the many of the western holster designs. You cannot live in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona or southern California and not see the relationship. I think the early holster industry had it beginnings in the southern tier and then made its way north.

I will continue to strive for answers and bend an ear or two if the accepted playbill needs a rethought or a little adjustment.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

boykinlp · #**105** 02-15-2022, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabensburg

Well, I won the bid on Saturday, February 12, 2022 for an A W Brill holster (dark brown basket weave pattern) probably made by Charles W Kluge or possibly the "Mystery Man". If I were bidding against one of my fellow Smith and Wesson Forum members, then I apologize for my enthusiasm.

I was watching that holster. One thing I was curious about, and I know very little about Brill holsters, I thought most Brill holsters had a thick multi layer welt. That holster had what I thought was a very thin welt, and confused me.
Larry

rednichols · #**106** 02-15-2022, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boykinlp

I was watching that holster. One thing I was curious about, and I know very little about Brill holsters, I thought most Brill holsters had a thick multi layer welt. That holster had what I thought was a very thin welt, and confused me.
Larry

Don't be confused; although the topic has been covered several times on the Forum: one of the several ways to distinguish and 'early' Brill-marked scabbard from a 'late' one is the welt stack. The earlies by Charles Kluge used a single welt and the main seam was quite straight. The lates by N.J. Rabensburg had minimum two thick welts at the frame and often had three; and the main seam was quite countoured.

Early (this is the one that Neale purchased)(be aware that such a Brill without a name on it was by Kluge Bros saddlery before August Brill bought out Charles and his brother in 1912):

early saa (7).jpg

While this one also is Neale's, and is by his grandfather (and the only unlined one I've ever seen). These are after 1932 when N.J. succeeded A.W. in that company. When N.J. retired early 1950s he was still making them with and without the Brill maker's mark by his d. in '61 (a '59 newspaper image tells us this):

neale rabensberg (1).jpg

There are many differences between the two configurations that can be easy to spot. A sticky would've fixed that issue up long ago but I can't keep posting the same info; even I get bored!

arabensburg · #**107** 02-15-2022, 03:47 PM

I remember my grandfather's funeral in the late spring of 1961. I was going to be 15 years old in one week. It was the day before the funeral, and my family arrived from Houston at the tail end of the viewing at the Weed-Corley Funeral Home. The Home was located in an older structure or large house situated near the Capital and the Governor’s Mansion.

A generous crowd still lingered, but it was beginning to get dark outside, and the viewing time was about to expire. My grandmother Lillian dressed in black was greeting and conversing with every guest as if this was some sort of party or social gathering. Obviously, she was sad, but I could not gauge how much. The casket was open, but she kept her distance in an adjacent parlor.

A a younger person, I saw little of my grandparents’ public affection. I did witness something, when the two returned from an afternoon of dancing, which surprised me to a great deal. I never thought of my grandfather as a social animal or a dancer for that matter. They did admit to us with smiles that dancing was a regular occurrence. I was glad to hear it, and my grandfather moved up a notch at that time.

When the guests finally departed the funeral home and just members of the family remained, my grandmother lost all of her stamina and started to collapse. My Dad and his brother Walter caught her at that moment and were guiding her to a waiting chair or sofa. However, she insisted on going to the adjacent room and the open coffin.

The two brothers continued to offer physical support; however, they were not prepared for her reaction. After standing before the coffin for a brief moment, my grandmother intentionally fell forward catching herself on the edge of the coffin while she leaned down to give my grandfather a passionate kiss. Everyone including myself were shocked in 1961, but now I do not feel the same. I witnessed private passion in an unconventional way, but that was okay.

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**108** 02-26-2022, 01:04 PM

Attached are photos of the brown A W Brill marked holster bought this month and received by me via USPS on February 19, 2022. The photos posted earlier both by me and Red Nichols were from the auction by the seller. I had enhanced these seller photos for clarity but thought those on my cell phone camera would provide better angles and detail.

The condition of this holster is good, but there is a noticeable crease from a gun barrel. There is no visible damage to the floral pattern at the front, however, the stretch may have weakened it, therefore, this holster will be displayed with no gun in the future.

I carefully pressed more tissue into the bottom of the pocket to stretch the leather to match its original billow. This has helped so the tissue will remain.

This holster was not made by N J Rabensburg but probably by Charles W. Kluge. The making dates are, in my opinion, between 1925 and 1932 and more likely around 1930.

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**109** 02-26-2022, 01:17 PM

More detailed photos of the A W Brill holster by Charles W Kluge cc: 1930

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

wheelgun610 · #**110** 02-26-2022, 05:10 PM

I don't think there's any doubt that one was intended to carry a 4-3/4" Colt SAA. Mine, with similar construction, including the welt was definitely intended for a 5" S&W N frame. There's not room for the ejector rod from a single action.

Mark

arabensburg · #**111** 02-26-2022, 06:53 PM

I agree.

Neale Rabensburg

Kansasgunner · #**112** 02-26-2022, 07:05 PM

As wheelgun610 said, that holster is definitely for a Colt SAA. The crease you noted is not from the barrel but from the ejector rod housing on said Colt revolver. A Colt or clone will fill out the holster properly and won’t hurt that handsome old scabbard one bit.

arabensburg · #**113** 02-26-2022, 07:17 PM

Thank you.

Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**114** 02-27-2022, 02:35 AM

I bought this vintage brown, unbranded floral pattern holster two weeks ago. I liked its looks and made an offer on February 15th, which was accepted. It was delivered about a week ago and in good condition. It is smaller than my two A W Brill holsters by N J Rabensburg and Charles W Kluge. The measurements according to the seller are as follows:

Measurements for this vintage holster, which is brown floral tooled leather, right hand belt OWB and unbranded are:

1. 8" tall from topmost point of back.

2. 7" tall from topmost point of front.

3. 3 ¼” across at its widest point.
.
If anyone has any thoughts about the probable maker, please let me know. The advertising photos were only two, that is front and back, during the auction. If you happened to be one of the watchers, then you might enjoy a more complete set of photos showing more detail.

I am very curious about unbranded holsters, which have quality features. It may mean they were wholesale products made remotely for a company and, thus, could not bear the company logo or name. They were simply tagged with string ties or sticky labels by the company when sold directly or shipped.

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**115** 02-27-2022, 02:41 AM

A continuation of more photos of the vintage brown, unbranded floral pattern holster.

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**116** 02-28-2022, 02:00 AM

I am a born-and-raised Texan steeped in its history, which was a part of the curriculum during the 7th Grade. Everyone was versed in the subject by the public school system.

However, the history for me actually started earlier in the 6th grade school with a yearly field trip to Washington-on-the-Brazos where the Texas Declaration of Independence was signed by delegates to the Convention of 1836. The month and day for the signing was March 2nd, which is forthcoming this Wednesday.

Unfortunately for the delegates, the Convention was shortened by the approach of General Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna and his army of 5,000 soldiers. Santa Anna was also the President of the Empire of Mexico and thus the highest ranking official from that country.

Santa Anna was in Texas to destroy this rebel movement and to scrape the landscape of all opposition including its newly appointed interim President, David G Burnet and his cabinet, whom he planned to capture for probable execution.

The 13-day siege of the Alamo Mission at San Antonio had been ongoing since February 23th, and when the news finally reached the Convention at Washington-on-the-Brazos of its fall, anger and unrest grew among the delegates but followed by a swift adjournment and flight to the coast.

Interim President Burnet and his cabinet, however, remained in the area and continued with the formation of a government. These men took residence at the home of Jared Ellison Groce, who lived on a large plantation of three leagues (or 13,104 acres of land) located on the Brazos River downstream a distance of about five miles as the crow flies. This home and plantation were referred to as Groce’s Retreat.

Jared E Groce was a very important person in Texas. He was both the largest landowner and the greatest cotton producer. He also received the title as the Father of Texas Agriculture. Groce had attended previous conventions held at San Felipe and Washington-on-the Brazos but not the one for 1836. It is believed he was at his winter home built in 1833, which faced the Brazos but on the opposite side of the river on its upper east bank. There he would have received President Burnet and his cabinet. As the host, he could offer comfort, warmth and food with household help and support.

The 1833 built manor house at Groce’s Retreat, thus, became the Capital of Texas for several days and was most likely the home where the delegate, George Childress, was staying when he drafted the Texas Declaration of Independence. This home might be considered one of the most important early structures in Texas history and still survives to this day.

It was originally built in the southwestern corner of Grimes County by slave labor in 1833. It was slated for destruction in 1967 but was saved by Faith Bybee and then mapped, dismantled, and moved to Fayette County, where it was safely stored for more than a decade. Fortunately, for me, I live in Fayette County, am aware of this house’s past history and have been working with various societies both locally and on a state level to have it reintroduced into the historical record. I will be lecturing on this subject about the Groce log house on March 15th in Grimes County to members of that area’s two historical societies.

Please remember that during the Texas Revolution of 1836, the provisional government for the Republic of Texas authorized the first official, government-sanctioned Ranger force to patrol the Texas frontier and protect its settlers. Seventy years later that same force of men (the Texas Rangers) started a revolution of their own in the leather handgun business.

Please celebrate with me Texas Independence Day on March 2, 2022 (this coming Wednesday). On that day 186 years ago, Texas seceded from the Empire of Mexico and started a war for independence, which finally ended at the Battle of San Jacinto. This Battle in turn allowed the United States to eventually purchase a large chuck of territory (more that 500,000 square miles), which stretched all the way to the Pacific Ocean and California.

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

bruce5781 · #**117** 02-28-2022, 11:56 AM

Love me some Texas !
A love of history and old maps is what drew me to rural land surveying in East Texas.

Sent from my SM-S127DL using Tapatalk

bmcgilvray · #**118** 02-28-2022, 12:55 PM

Thank you Neale!

I'm big on Texas Independence Day, but then I would be since being a born and bed Texan. I'll celebrate with you.

This is a Brill thread that keeps on giving.

crazyphil · #**119** 02-28-2022, 01:37 PM

Here, on the left, is a very early 457. It isn't marked 457 but it is the style that later became the 457.

2nd from left Is the Crump version that Red mentioned.

3rd from left is another Heiser with dog ear. It's model 759.

4th from left Myres was also quite popular with their model 614.

5th Lawrence got into the act a bit later with their model 34.

arabensburg · #**120** 03-01-2022, 06:28 PM

I want to thank everyone for their recent input concerning my unbranded look-alike H H Heiser Mexican floral brown holster. I have been studying this holster design and the information provided for the past couple of days.

I did find a discussion on one H H Heiser holster with a floral design marked but somewhat hidden. The mark was supposedly inside or between something. I thought I made a copy, but it has yet to surface. I will continue to look.

I checked my H H Heiser look-alike but, unfortunately, found no hidden mark.

I did find another H H Heiser listed on the internet, which compares favorably to mine. It is labeled as a "757". The photos of it and mine are shown below. The primary difference is with the rivet. Mine has conventional stitching with a "V" return.

I learned that H H Heiser was a rather large producing company marketing to Germany before and after the Great War and to Abercrombie and Fitch as well.

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**121** 03-02-2022, 09:16 PM

I need help on this restoration of this S D Myres Mexican floral holster and belt combination. I purchased it last week, and it arrived by mail this afternoon. It does need work, and I want to go as far as I can with that effort. It remains a little stiff in spots and needs a rejuvenation of the entire leather.

I would like for it to be dismantled, which may cause difficulty. There are three rivets on the back of the holster, which need to be removed in order to separate the holster from the belt and the holster itself from the sleeve/cuff. Can this be done without harm and with the replacement of new rivets?

The surface of the belt, holster and sleeve need to be rejuvenated separately and with a new coat of black. The buckle needs re-plating or replacement, therefore, the existing stitches will have to be removed and replaced. Have I destroyed the character by any of this ?

I want to make it a display piece but can wear it since it fits my waist. The leather liner on the back of the belt is a real problem. It has become torn and dislodged in several places. I want to replace it with new but that means replacing the existing stitching and resewing. (The leather liner could be flattened with heat and refastened to the back with adhesive and then restained with black dye for matching appearance with the front.) Is any of this possible?

Can anyone recommend a leather maker versed in restoration in central Texas, who would want to tackle this job in a timely manner?

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**122** 03-02-2022, 09:36 PM

This message is continuation of the previous post with additional photos of the S D Myres black holster and belt combination with Mexican floral pattern. This vintage holster and belt made in El Paso, Texas was sent to me from Connecticut.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**123** 03-03-2022, 12:20 AM

I will make some calls to local saddlers. If any of you have a recommendation, I live at zip code 78945. Austin and Houston area saddlers are convenient.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**124** 03-03-2022, 09:45 PM

I wanted to give an update to you, who are following my attempt to restore a recently purchased vintage S D Myres black holster and belt combination with a Mexican floral pattern.

I made a call this morning for a late afternoon appointment with a saddle maker and restorer in Fayette County, Texas. The location is very convenient for me since the drive was less than 30 minutes one way.

The gentleman and his wife as owners are born-and-raised Texans and, in an earlier life, were ranchers but have lived in multiple locations in and outside Texas. We spent 2 1/4 hours talking about this S D Myres holster and belt among other things.

I am now on the list for restoration after a great deal of discussion and have been tagged for space in line, which may have to wait 4 months, which is okay with me. Beyond that might be a problem. He has a great deal of other people ahead of me, which speaks well of his work quality, at least, I hope that is the case.

Anyway, I should have a restored product 5-6 months from now.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

boykinlp · #**125** 03-03-2022, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabensburg

I wanted to give an update to you, who are following my attempt to restore a recently purchased vintage S D Myres black holster and belt combination with a Mexican floral pattern.

I made a call this morning for a late afternoon appointment with a saddle maker and restorer in Fayette County, Texas. The location is very convenient for me since the drive was less than 30 minutes one way.

The gentleman and his wife as owners are born-and-raised Texans and, in an earlier life, were ranchers but have lived in multiple locations in and outside Texas. We spent 2 1/4 hours talking about this S D Myres holster and belt among other things.

I am now on the list for restoration after a great deal of discussion and have been tagged for space in line, which may have to wait 4 months, which is okay with me. Beyond that might be a problem. He has a great deal of other people ahead of me, which speaks well of his work quality, at least, I hope that is the case.

Anyway, I should have a restored product 5-6 months from now.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

Neale, I am not exactly sure what a restoration entails on this Myres rig. If it requires re-stitching or replacing leather, it would be above my pay grade, but I would have cleaned it up, and hit it with some Blackrock Leather 'N' Rich and seen what the results were. Do you have better pictures of the damage? Thanks.
Larry

arabensburg · #**126** 03-04-2022, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boykinlp

Neale, I am not exactly sure what a restoration entails on this Myres rig. If it requires re-stitching or replacing leather, it would be above my pay grade, but I would have cleaned it up, and hit it with some Blackrock Leather 'N' Rich and seen what the results were. Do you have better pictures of the damage? Thanks.
Larry

Larry,

You are correct, and these same points were all discussed today.

There will be little re-stitching and probably only around the buckle, if replaced. A cleanup of the existing metal surface will help, but the rust stains have done some damage. The stitching for the buckle is by hand so it should not present a problem, if the buckle has to be replaced.

There will be no replacement leather. The leather liner on the back will be moistened and flattened and then stretched to take its original form and glued in place. The type of glue was discussed so it will not damage the belt itself. Since this belt will be a display item and not worn but only on special occasions, I am not worried about separation of the liner from the back of the belt in the future. Re-stitching of a new liner was ruled out because of probable damage to the edge of the belt and may compromise some of the belts integrity.

The black dyed front surface of the leather holster and belt will be cleaned and oiled using a special product, which has natural ingredients. I forget the name, which he suggested. He plans to finish out all surfaces including the inside of the ammunition loops of the belt. All surfaces will be fed except for the liner, which will remain natural and unfinished.

The saddler does plan to buff the leather surface on the back of the belt where exposed by the damaged liner. The buffing will clean and prepare the surface for the glue and the moistened and stretched liner. I do not think he plans to use heat in the process.

The application of black dye will be applied in part or in total. That decision to dye will be made when the above has been accomplished to my satisfaction.

I will take some more photos of the damage and submit those tomorrow.

Thank you for your comments.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**127** 03-04-2022, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rednichols

Ironic that I could have it done for you in less time - free except for your postal costs to / from -- even though I'm Down Under :-). He must be some saddler; and also needs a triage system (obviously a new saddle comes first, and an old customer comes first; but a simple refinish . . . ?).

Gosh, I hope the saddle maker and his wife do not read this thread. I did refer it to him to gain some background.

I am assuming that his popularity and his backlog may have a lot to do with his skill but health issues as well, which got in the way, particularly, concerning his wife, who is recovering from a more recent liver transplant.

The saddler had to close his operations a few years ago when his wife began to suffer from a failing liver. Diagnosis took forever in Fayette County, then at St. David's in Austin and finally in Houston at the Texas Medical Center, which you know is the largest medical center in the world.

Her liver and kidneys finally shut down, and she was on dialysis with one step into the coffin. The saddler told me a miracle happened, and she was placed at the head of the list, and a liver suddenly became available from a donor.

This saddler and his wife had, unfortunately, met other patients during the process of the wait. Two of these acquaintances died before a replacement could be found.

The above was a part of our 2 1/4 hour conversation this afternoon but not reported in my previous post. I was interested in gaining as broad a background as possible so I became a good listener. I surmised that the saddler is pacing himself with the above.

I liked them. Like me, they take care of rescue animals, are involved with their community and like N J Rabensburg, this saddler had been the mayor of this town, which is located midway between two major metropolitan areas, that is, Houston and San Antonio and destined to be in the not-to-distant future more important as the Texas population continues to swell.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**128** 03-07-2022, 08:17 PM

Attached are some detail photos of my recently purchased S D Myres holster and belt rig, which was tooled in a Mexican floral pattern and dyed in black. I remember my grandfather's black dyed holsters on display in a glass-covered case in his home workshop located at 1903 (N) Lamar Blvd in Austin, Texas.

I gravitated to the black dyed as a kid and now more particularly to those tooled in a Mexican floral pattern. These holster and belt designs speak louder to me.

These attached photos indicate the condition of the S D Myres belt and holster rig, which requires extra attention during the restoration before the surface condition can be addressed.

Submitted by: Neale Rabensburg

boykinlp · #**129** 05-01-2022, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabensburg

Charles W Kluge may have made the two unmarked subject holsters (see Post #100), that is, between 1906 and 1912 and prior to his employment at the A W Brill Company; however, I speculated the same, but discounted that thought since Kluge would be making a “Brill” look-alike at the moment N J Rabensburg was introducing his original holster design to Captain Hughes.

If Charles W Kluge did make the two subject unmarked holsters between 1906 and 1912, then they were both made at his Kluge Bros Company. Since this Company was a significant downtown Austin leather enterprise with more than 20 years in business by 1906, then I would expect identification on the back of these holsters, and there was none.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

Mr. Rabensburg, since I am now the proud owner of a Kluge "Brill-a-like" holster, I have been re-reading these threads. There is definitely a lot to absorb. Here is my question, have you ever seen a Kluge Brothers holster from their downtown Austin leather enterprise, with more than 20 years in business, with their identification on the holster? I know if I was a talented maker of anything, I would be proud and dang sure it had my name on it somewhere! But, there are many, many quality vintage holster makers that didn't use a maker's mark for some reason. If you had an example of a holster with their maker's mark from that 20 year period, I could entirely follow your assumptions.

Without it though, I am inclined to think that what you first said ("Charles W. Kluge may have made the two unmarked subject holsters, between 1906 and 1912, and prior to his employment at the A W Brill Company.") is more plausible. And if I am comprehending the information correctly, then your grandfather came in and changed the design to what we now know as a Brill holster by thickening the welt in his unique way, changing the way the cuff was sew on slightly, etc.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Larry

PS - Here are pictures of my new to me holster:

arabensburg · #**130** 05-07-2022, 01:18 PM

I purchased this A. W. Brill holster made by Charles W. Kluge last week from the Fayette Heritage Museum and Archives located in La Grange, Texas. The Museum had purchased it that same week from a local thrift store and asked my opinion as to the maker.

The Museum would have kept it if it were an N. J. Rabensburg design. Since it was not, I was able to add it to my small collection of vintage holsters.

The subject holster was in poor condition with a hole worn through the crease at the front due to the ejector rod. An earlier purchase of a similar Charles W. Kluge holster suffers from the same crease but not with a gaping hole.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**131** 05-18-2022, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boykinlp

Mr. Rabensburg, since I am now the proud owner of a Kluge "Brill-a-like" holster, I have been re-reading these threads. There is definitely a lot to absorb. Here is my question, have you ever seen a Kluge Brothers holster from their downtown Austin leather enterprise, with more than 20 years in business, with their identification on the holster? I know if I was a talented maker of anything, I would be proud and dang sure it had my name on it somewhere! But, there are many, many quality vintage holster makers that didn't use a maker's mark for some reason. If you had an example of a holster with their maker's mark from that 20 year period, I could entirely follow your assumptions.

Without it though, I am inclined to think that what you first said ("Charles W. Kluge may have made the two unmarked subject holsters, between 1906 and 1912, and prior to his employment at the A W Brill Company.") is more plausible. And if I am comprehending the information correctly, then your grandfather came in and changed the design to what we now know as a Brill holster by thickening the welt in his unique way, changing the way the cuff was sew on slightly, etc.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Larry

PS - Here are pictures of my new to me holster:

Larry, my thoughts on unmarked holsters from this earlier period with regards to Charles W. Kluge would also apply to N J Rabensburg. Where are the early N J Rabensburg holsters made (either marked and unmarked) between 1906 and 1932?

From 1932 forward, N J Rabensburg marked his holsters with either the A W Brill stamp or without but never with his own name. From 1935 until his retirement, he owned the A W Brill Company, which was now named the N J Rabensburg Company.

Rabensburg had every opportunity to get the record straight and tout his own name on his holster designs, but he chose not to do so.

Now back to the earlier period of the 20th Century. Where are the Charles W Kluge holsters prior to 1912? Well, they were probably around but may not be in the numbers, which are usually associated with him.

These are my thoughts for the moment. I think Charles W Kluge did not come into his own with holsters until the mid-1920s, when he was working for the A W Brill Company. His time and effort up until then was spent with the making of saddles.

The popular holsters for the A W Brill Company, prior to the mid-1920s, were being made by a 3rd, unnamed person according to an article in the Austin Statesman newspaper dated Sunday, May 18, 1924.

I call this 3rd person, the "mystery man". The mystery man is clearly noted in the newspaper article concerning the A W Brill Company of Austin, and it is not Charles W Kluge.

Charles W Kluge, however, is also recognized in the same article but only as a fine saddle maker. Credit for the "thousands" of holsters made for the A W Brill Company (as per the newspaper article) between 1912 and 1924 goes to the "mystery man". Who is this "mystery man"?

I believe this "mystery man" represents not a single person but rather a grouping or a contingent of "Brill-a-like" holster makers. The A W Brill Company hired these leather designers to make a myriad of holsters during this early period but with no stamp on the cuff or name on the back.

Charles W Kluge, as one of these Brill-a-like holster makers, was allowed to use the A W Brill maker stamp since he was an employee of the Company, however, I do not think he was given credit on a public notice by the Company until the 2nd half of the 1920s.

The above may sound absurd, but it may help to explain why the A W Brill Company was able to produce "thousands" of holsters during this early period and why the holster maker continues to remain unnamed by the Company in the 1924 newspaper article since the maker was actually a grouping of holster makers.

Was N J Rabensburg one of these "Brill-a-like" holster makers as well? I think it is a real possibility.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

rednichols · #**132** 05-18-2022, 05:54 PM

I disagree with all of that, Neale. Who made the 1905 to 1912 scabbards made as were the Brills, but without a maker's mark-- the saddlery where they were created for Captain Hughes in 1905: Kluge Bros saddlery. Of the two brothers, Charles was the saddler and Henry was the bookkeeper (office manager). We will have to think of 'saddler' or 'harness' makers as 'leather workers'.

Who made them after 1912 when August Brill bought out the brothers? Charles Kluge in Brill's shop which was . . . the old Kluge shop. Where are N.J.'s for 1905 when he was a saddle cub, and while away from Austin altogether until 1932? None, I would say. Remember that his holsters are easily distinguished BY THEIR CONSTRUCTION from a Kluge scabbard.

Do the math on 'thousands of holsters over the last 12 years (the article is 1924, the company sale was 1912): assuming 'thousands' over 12 years is working 5 days/week for 50 weeks (could have been more in that era) amounts to 3,000 days, then Charles has had to make fewer than one holster a day. Lotsa time left over for saddlery.

Also never forget that holsters/scabbards are what saved saddlers from the Model T, beginning that very decade. Sam Myres completely folded his saddlery to make only gunleather by 1930. Brill was more a merchant than a saddler, trading in buggies etc.

Built-in customers for the Kluge scabbard were the Texas Rangers who then supplied their own gear, and Hughes was spreading the word where they could get these required scabbards: Kluge Bros then A.W. Brill. Others popped up by simply having a Kluge scabbard to copy while the buyer was too far from Austin to return, and all are the same in general specification, especially the L.A. Sessums version by Rogers.

There are twelve Brillalike designs having their own makers' marks on them, then an equal number that have no name on them; but none of the 24 are made identically to a Kluge scabbard. Esp. the Myres has neither the half lining nor the purpose-placed cuff for the narrow trousers belt.

Say, the 1950 Census results are starting to pour through but limited by State; so not all the players of holstory have appeared for me yet. But Texas and California have; and N.J. appears in that Census (the year I was born in CA so I'm in it, too) as a 'tooled leather manufacturer', August Brill as a co-owner with son Lionel of a 'wholesale leather goods store', and Arno Brill as 'proprietor of a seasonal fishing resort' (Brillville on Lake Austin).

boykinlp · #**133** 05-18-2022, 10:32 PM

Alright, here goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabensburg

Larry, my thoughts on unmarked holsters from this earlier period with regards to Charles W. Kluge would also apply to N J Rabensburg. Where are the early N J Rabensburg holsters made (either marked and unmarked) between 1906 and 1932?

I would guess that since NJ was an apprentice for the La Grange company 65 miles from Austin from 1907-10, when he was only 18-21 years old, the scabbards he made would have their makers mark, if any. Since he was apprenticing, he was learning the trade, right? Later he was in Dallas, New Mexico, Utah, etc.

I thought Captain Hughes was peddling his design around 1908. From 1912 when Brill bought Kluge to the 1924 article when this was written: “One of the A W Brill products has made the Austin company famous the country over among peace officers. During the past twelve years, one expert leatherworker has been kept busy supplying Texas Rangers and other peace officers with belt and SCABBARD for their guns. Thousands of these SCABBARDS and belts have been made.”

And this was in Charlie Kluge's obituary: “Kluge designed a SCABBARD and belt for a six-shooter that was worn by practically every peace officer in Texas and filled orders all over the world.”

That points me in the direction that Kluge was the mystery man. NJ wasn't involved until 1932.

From 1932 forward, N J Rabensburg marked his holsters with either the A W Brill stamp or without but never with his own name. From 1935 until his retirement, he owned the A W Brill Company, which was now named the N J Rabensburg Company.

This makes sense.

Rabensburg had every opportunity to get the record straight and tout his own name on his holster designs, but he chose not to do so.

Now back to the earlier period of the 20th Century. Where are the Charles W Kluge holsters prior to 1912? Well, they were probably around but may not be in the numbers, which are usually associated with him.

I believe my holster in post #129 is one of Kluge's holsters before 1912, and Tim's holster in post #86 is a Kluge holster after the 1912 purchase by Brill.

These are my thoughts for the moment. I think Charles W Kluge did not come into his own with holsters until the mid-1920s, when he was working for the A W Brill Company. His time and effort up until then was spent with the making of saddles.

This wouldn't make since if my above post about mine and Tim's holsters is true.

The popular holsters for the A W Brill Company, prior to the mid-1920s, were being made by a 3rd, unnamed person according to an article in the Austin Statesman newspaper dated Sunday, May 18, 1924.

I call this 3rd person, the "mystery man". The mystery man is clearly noted in the newspaper article concerning the A W Brill Company of Austin, and it is not Charles W Kluge.

Again, I say Kluge is the mystery man as evidenced by the 1924 and Kluge's obituary quotes above.

Charles W Kluge, however, is also recognized in the same article but only as a fine saddle maker. Credit for the "thousands" of holsters made for the A W Brill Company (as per the newspaper article) between 1912 and 1924 goes to the "mystery man". Who is this "mystery man"?

Charlie Kluge

I believe this "mystery man" represents not a single person but rather a grouping or a contingent of "Brill-a-like" holster makers. The A W Brill Company hired these leather designers to make a myriad of holsters during this early period but with no stamp on the cuff or name on the back.

I don't think they would say mystery man if it was a group of leather craftsmen.

Charles W Kluge, as one of these Brill-a-like holster makers, was allowed to use the A W Brill maker stamp since he was an employee of the Company, however, I do not think he was given credit on a public notice by the Company until the 2nd half of the 1920s.

You are right, as proven by Tim's holster in post #86.

The above may sound absurd, but it may help to explain why the A W Brill Company was able to produce "thousands" of holsters during this early period and why the holster maker continues to remain unnamed by the Company in the 1924 newspaper article since the maker was actually a grouping of holster makers.

Was N J Rabensburg one of these "Brill-a-like" holster makers as well? I think it is a real possibility.

I don't think so. I believe he obviously made the advanced designed Brill marked holsters from 1932 onward.

JMHO!

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

I put my responses in red above.
Larry

arabensburg · #**134** 05-19-2022, 02:58 AM

Uh, oh. A tongue lashing. Well, I knew it was coming, but I do appreciate the feedback because that is the way to learn. I am not set in stone and consider myself to be dynamic, that is, evolving when I hear something that makes sense. However, the needle has yet to move for me one way or the other with recent responses.

Charles W. Kluge was the artistic director for the Kluge Brothers and mostly likely for the A. W. Brill Company from 1912 until his retirement. He was gifted but not omnipotent (all powerful). He could not be the “greatest saddle maker in the country” and produce “thousands” of holsters (scabbards) at the same time. It is just not possible. He would have had no time for family and would have been driven to madness with such business orders. He had to have outside help.

A. W. Brill made shoes on an outreach basis, why not holsters? The game plan works with outside help. Mr. Brill had every opportunity in the 1924 article to name Charles (Charlie) W. Kluge as the main man or at least the leader of the pack for holsters but did not. If Kluge was indeed doing saddles, holsters and everything else at the A. W. Brill Company, then he must have been terribly insulted by the article, which failed to acknowledge him as the “mystery man”.

No, I think in 1924, holsters for A. W. Brill may have been sold to customers with a choice of styles, which carried the “ranger look”. In my opinion, the holster with the Brill mark was obviously Charles W. Kluge. He won out in the end as the lone survivor. But remember in my previous posts, N. J. Rabensburg came on the scene with holsters after 1927. This may be the reason Rabensburg was pulled to the A. W. Brill Company of Austin in 1932. His holster was better than Kluge’s, and Kluge was approaching retirement.

Yes, I have done the math for both holsters and saddles. Depending on the method used, the number of completed products would vary. At the moment, I calculate that Kluge would have made 1728 holsters over a twelve year period for the A. W. Brill Company. This is not “thousands”. As for saddles, three a month tops. The actual saddle numbers according to the article were less at three saddles for every 2 months. There is a drying time for saddles, and one could work in some holsters but not enough time to produce “thousands”.

Larry, thanks for your responses in red. I do want to point out that N. J. Rabensburg holsters for the very early period, when he was just a kid, did not bear his name. In fact, no holster by N. J. Rabensburg ever sported his name. When he was in Price, Utah in his early twenties, he used a Rabensburg maker stamp on saddles and chaps. I would flip if a N. J. Rabensburg holster ever appeared with his own maker stamp.

This holds true for Charles W. Kluge as well. Are you aware of a Charles W. Kluge made holster with his name as maker? Are you calling a Kluge design without a maker stamp on the cuff or back made prior to 1912? How do you distinguish a Charles W. Kluge holster made after 1912 with one made prior?

Kluge continued to make holsters after 1932, which could have been marked or unmarked. This period of time for Kluge as an active holster maker appears to have not been well documented. Perhaps one or more of Kluge's floral design holsters without a maker mark were not made prior to 1912 as previously thought but rather after 1932.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

A copy of the Austin Statesman newspaper article dated May 18, 1924 on the A. W. Brill Company follows. Mules will never be replaced by tractors, and saddles are here to stay are some of the future predictions by Mr. Brill and the newspaper reporter:

Newspaper Article Austin Statesman, Sunday May 18, 1924

A. W. BRILL LEATHER GOODS STORE IS MOST POPULAR IN TEXAS

Local Business Made Famous by High Grade Work on Specialties in Leather Goods.

This is the age of the automobile. So strong is the grasp of the motor driven vehicles on all classes of persons, the farmer as well as the city man, that one is inclined to believe that within a very short time old Dobin will be consigned to the past, and his memory with that of the dodo, of the dinosaurus-or with some other extinct bird or animal. And yet despite all these ominous signs, A. W. Brill Austin wholesale saddle, leather and shoe findings dealer, 218 East Sixth Street, in 1923 had the largest business in saddles and harness he enjoyed since he went into the business in 1912. More than 200 saddles were sold by this thriving wholesale company as well as hundreds of sets of harness and pieces of harness. Not only did A. W. Brill sell more saddles than ever before in the history of his business, but he was unable to meet the orders given for saddles. It is interesting to note that in 1923, Austin’s wholesale leather dealer sold more than 250 dozen horse collars.

Mr. Brill has no startling explanation to make for the gratifying business of last year or for even more promising prospects for bettering the 1924 the 1923 record. “Business has always been good in my line” said Mr. Brill. “I think perhaps the dipping law which requires farmers and dairymen to drive their cows to the dipping vat, must have had some effect must have slight, for nearly all the saddles we sold were of the highest grade and were made to order. I don’t imagine that Henry Ford will ever invent a contraption that will enable farmers or ranchmen to punch cattle by machine; and I imagine this fact indicates here will always be a fair demand for saddles,” said Mr. Brill.

This owner of the big wholesale house pointed out that the impracticability of using tractors to play Central Texas lands must have had something to do with the unprecedented harness sales in 1923. It was noted by Mr. Brill that more Central Texas farmers than ever before bought mules’ and that the new harness was bought to go on the new mules. Mr. Brill does not believe that the tractor will ever displace the mule as a means of plowing.

The growth of the company during the past twelve years has been remarkable. In 1912 Mr. Brill bought he saddle and harness business of Henry and Charlie Kluge. The business had been founded twenty-seven years before-in 1885 to be exact. The Kluge brothers both work for Brill at the present. Henry Kluge is the bookkeeper, while Charlie Kluge is the most famous saddle-maker in the country. His saddles are works of art, for he works with the artist instinct to achieve the perfect, if possible.

For the saddle and harness business Mr. Brill paid $5550. During the first year he operated the business, the gross receipts totaled more that $25,000. At the present time, more than $100,000 is the volume of business done by the wholesale company, and this amount could be doubled with comparative ease, did Mr. Brill care to expand materially his business. Mr. Brill is yet doing business in the same building it occupied when he bought the business. This building is spacious enough. With the first floor given over to leather goods of all sorts, harness, “horse and mule jewelry” and to the saddle shop. The second story is given over to the well arrange saddle shop.

Shortly after Mr. Brill bought the business he added as a sideline, vehicles, shoe findings and shoe machinery. Just at the present this shoe findings business is a most profitable sideline. Mr. Brill yet carries a small line of buggies, but this lie does not mover very rapidly, with everyone desirous of riding in gasoline-driven conveyances.

When Mr. Brill bought the business he operated at the present time, there was strong competition in Austin. Five or six leather goods houses were strongly established. Practically all of the rivals went out of business several years ago, and the A. W. Brill concern is the leading leather goods firms not only of Austin, but of Central Texas. Mr. Brill commented on the fact that during the recent “Find-Yourself campaign conducted for Austin High School boys, few of the boys considered making the leather business their vocation. Mr. Brill pointed out that there would always be a splendid business in the shoe findings phase of the leather business, unless people decided to go unshod.

One of the A. W. Brill products has made the Austin company famous the country over among peace officers. During the past twelve years, one expert leather worker has been kept busy supplying Texas rangers and other peace officers with belt and scabbard for the guns. Thousands of these scabbards and belts have been made. All of which have been made to special order, and sell at $5.50 a set delivered to the buyer. When Mr. Brill first took charge of the business, he made a belt and scabbard for a certain well known Texas ranger. This peace officer was a splendid advertiser of the quality of Brill goods and within a short time orders for belts and scabbards literally poured in on Mr. Brill.

It is remarkable how Texas rangers and other peace officers have spread broad the advantages of the belts and scabbards manufactured in our shop, said Mr. Brill. “We have had a number of interesting examples of the value of the good will present in the hearts of satisfied byers. Several years ago, W. W. Pitts, who had at one time been a ranger, and who had become familiar with and owned a belt and scabbard made by our firm, moved to Nashville, Tenn. Within a short time orders began to come in from Nashville-orders prompted by Mr. Pitts’ good will and active boosting. We must have received several hundred dollars in trade from Nashville resident due to Mr. Pitts”, said Mr. Brill. A number of like cases were mentioned by the wholesale merchant.

Another popular sideline developed by A. W. Brill was the creation last year of the Varsity belt. This support, a fancy, wide, shining leather belt, sold for one dollar, and became a tremendous fad with Texas University boys. The girls also bought the belts, wearing them with sweaters and skirt. Varsity student, after they had left Austin for the Summer vacation, spread abroad the fame of the Brill “Varsity Belt,” and orders come in from many sections of the state. More than 5000 “Varsity Belts” have been sold with the past year or so.

One product of A. W. Brill is an “all-Texas” product in every sense of the word. This product is a sturdy brown shoe. The cows, from which the hides going into the shoes were taken, were native cows; the hides were tanned in Texas; the shoe was made in New Braunfels, Texas, by Texas workmen, and are being sold in Texas by the Brill Company.

Arno Brill, oldest son of A. W Brill, is head road representative of the leather house. Young Mr. Brill sells a large volume of leather goods to the retail trade in such towns as Brady, Mason, Junction, Llano, New Braunfels, Georgetown and Taylor. The owner of the business has discouraged his son in his desire to expand the wholesale trade radius. Mr. Brill declares that he has more work now than he can handle, and he can see no earthly need of more heavily loading himself. Virgil Brill, youngest son of A. W. Brill, works part of the time in the store. He is taking a business administration course in the University of Texas. Lionel Brill, a third son, is traveling representative for another large leather house.

Although Mr. Brill is enthusiastic about Texas hides he uses much leather that comes from South America. “Hides coming from South America are not apt to be wire-marked and marred by grub worms,” said Mr. Brill. “South American hides are known as the refrigerator hides; for they are sent green to this country. They are kept wet, and therefore partly green to prevent them from drying out. South American hides control he market, and usually bring several times as high a price as the Texas hides,” concluded Mr. Brill.

Eddie Southgate · #**135** 05-20-2022, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelgun610

John, if my holster in the photo above looks familiar to you, it's because I purchased it from you via ebay somewhere around 2002 - 2004.

Aside from slight differences in the floral carving, the first thing I notice is that the cuffs are in different locations. On mine, the cuff being closer to the 'mouth' means the belt loop is very narrow. It would require a belt of no more than one inch in width. Based on some of the other info provided by Mr Rabensburg in this thread, that leads me to think this one is likely to be from his grandfather's early production.

I'll get some more detailed photos that hopefully will give more clues.

Thanks,
Mark

Mine pictured with the Colt in it is on a 1" Ranger belt and the fit is very tight. If I remember correctly Red identified it as an early Rabensburg Brill.

rednichols · #**136** 05-20-2022, 06:28 PM

We've all come a long way since the Brill began to be discussed on this forum, by others :-). I wish I could say that 'we have arrived' but that doesn't appear to be the case. And the Second Edition of Holstory, which is about to be released, doesn't contain a pictorial explanation of the differences; partly because I think not everyone 'sees' what to me are the obvious clues about the construction of each :-)

I'm hoping that this mental approach will be even better than a pic. Conjure up what one thinks to be a Brill because it has the Brill marking on the cuff; now decide if it has the wide cuff or the narrow cuff. If it's wide, then it's by Kluge; if it's narrow (by comparison) then it's a Rabesnburg.

Now realize that those by Kluge that have the A.W. Brill marking were made during his time at the brand-new Brill company from 1912 onwards when Kluge's saddlery was purchased by August Brill.

Now, thinking of that scabbard, when one sees such with no Brill marking on the cuff, it is was made by Kluge from the time that Capt. Hughes commissioned in in 1905-ish (he and his men were in Austin on foot patrol from mid-1904 to mid-1907) until Kluge sold his company in 1912.

Easy: two eras of Brills defined by their era.

Now, imagine a Brill-marked holster that is distinctly more curvaceous, and the carving style is distinctly different from the Kluge style. These are by Rabensburg, exact date unprovable so far. OK, marked with the Brill stamp (there was only one, and Neale Rabensburg owns it to this very day) in the center of its narrow cuff, were made at the Brill shop by N.J. Rabensburg.

These of that same 'look' (the details are obvious to me but the easiest is the curvaceous styling vs the straight-waisted Kluges) without the Brill marking were also made by Rabensburg, until his death in 1961. We cannot yet say for sure, if his style appeared in Austin when he did, in 1932; nor if Charles, who also worked at Brill making scabbards until his own death in 1944, kept making them his way and N.J. had his own. I expect that's what happened but can't prove it.

N.J. made these scabbards with the Brill mark, with no mark, and with the buyer's initials on them. So did Kluge! it is their styling that shows us which is which.

Witty and I did not include a pictorial of all this in the Second Edition of Holstory because, at the end of the day, the Sunday scabbard only matters because it was the inspiration for the Threepersons; which itself is a Sunday scabbard with the fender and cuff removed and replaced by a plain, folded-back belt loop.

The best know example, then, of the Threepersons that appeared in 1930 and so-named by Sam Myres, is the Myres 614 that was hugely popular with the FBI by the time they were formally armed in 1935 and generally with the brand-new S&W .357 Magnum in 3.5" barrel. Jelly Bryce used on exclusively.

Jelly's fellow agent's collection shows a transition period for the holsters: his N frames that began with a .44 Spl. as Jelly had, were carried in an early Kluge Brill; this would have been from his and Jelly's time with Oklahoma City PD before they both joined what would become the FBI in mid-1934. Jerry's collection includes his Myres 614, too, and fellow agent Walter Walsh who killed Al Brady in a street gunfight in 1937 while Walsh was carrying in the Myres (he wore a pair).

The Sunday scabbard, then, is collectible in its own right but it is relevant only because the Texas Rangers used it; and it was turned into the Myres Threepersons that is still made today by Doc Barranti under the Myres name. The Sunday scabbard is vicious-hard to make while the Threepersons is dead easy; and its simpler construction is arguably more durable against wear and tear (gunmen have a bad habit of leaning on the grip of their pistols while standing, which tears against the sewing).

Now, it does help to know that there were a dozen makers whose names are stamped into Brillalikes; and we can think of a maker's mark as its provenance. That's why the stamps state 'maker': "I made this, I'm not a reseller" is its meaning.

And it helps to know there are a dozen more that are not stamped at all. I'd say these were small saddlers that hadn't a stamp small enough (saddlery stamps can be as large as the palm of your hand) who didn't go to the expense of having a stamp made, especially with saddlery fading away beginning in the 1910s. And the saddlers themselves faded away because they didn't have heirs who wanted to continue in the biz.

The Sunday scabbard was a bridge between the far bulkier, less secure King Ranch holster, and the smaller Myres Threepersons. An evolutionary process that then tells us exactly where each fits into holstory as surely as a fossilised skeleton of Cro-magnon man.

P.S. the saddlers of old worked long hours, as shown in their Census appearances whenever they were asked. The record so far is Arno Brill who stated he worked 80 hour weeks for the 1950 census. Also, don't count these folk out as humble laborers; Kluge House which still stands today but has been relocated, stood in a neighborhood where his house and the others ranged from a value of ten grand to 20 grand; at the gold prices then vs now one would mulitply that by 100: MEGABUCKS.

That's all from me for the duration; what's in the Second Edition will have to stand until someone else publishes their own holster book with their own research :-). I know I'm done!

arabensburg · #**137** 05-21-2022, 06:02 PM

Red, good luck on the second, forthcoming book. I am sure it will be as successful as the first. I want my copy.

Yes, I am able to distinguish (in many cases) a Kluge design (the form) as viewed from the front; however, distance is a factor. The number of welts and the stitching pattern (both front and back) are, of course, the deciding elements, and once they are made evident, then a determination can be made. Such scrutiny applies to a Rabensburg holster as well. Red, you taught me these things.

The Charles W. Kluge, which I acquired recently with the hole, was an “easy” for me. Initially, I received a front photo of it by email from the Fayette Heritage Museum and Archives. My response back to the archivist was, “it was probably a Kluge”. When I held it in my hand the next day, it only took a second to reconfirm that it was indeed a Kluge. The stitching pattern and the welt stack were, of course, the determining elements. The ejector rod crease, which eventually caused its wear hole, was an additional clue suggesting a Kluge design. A Rabensburg holster would have avoided the problem with a thicker/multiple welt stack.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**138** 05-27-2022, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by arabensburg View Post

START OF QUOTE
Larry, my thoughts on unmarked holsters from this earlier period with regards to Charles W. Kluge would also apply to N J Rabensburg. Where are the early N J Rabensburg holsters made (either marked and unmarked) between 1906 and 1932?

I would guess that since NJ was an apprentice for the La Grange company 65 miles from Austin from 1907-10, when he was only 18-21 years old, the scabbards he made would have their makers mark, if any. Since he was apprenticing, he was learning the trade, right? Later he was in Dallas, New Mexico, Utah, etc.

I thought Captain Hughes was peddling his design around 1908. From 1912 when Brill bought Kluge to the 1924 article when this was written: “One of the A W Brill products has made the Austin company famous the country over among peace officers. During the past twelve years, one expert leatherworker has been kept busy supplying Texas Rangers and other peace officers with belt and SCABBARD for their guns. Thousands of these SCABBARDS and belts have been made.”

And this was in Charlie Kluge's obituary: “Kluge designed a SCABBARD and belt for a six-shooter that was worn by practically every peace officer in Texas and filled orders all over the world.”

That points me in the direction that Kluge was the mystery man. NJ wasn't involved until 1932.

From 1932 forward, N J Rabensburg marked his holsters with either the A W Brill stamp or without but never with his own name. From 1935 until his retirement, he owned the A W Brill Company, which was now named the N J Rabensburg Company.

This makes sense.

Rabensburg had every opportunity to get the record straight and tout his own name on his holster designs, but he chose not to do so.

Now back to the earlier period of the 20th Century. Where are the Charles W Kluge holsters prior to 1912? Well, they were probably around but may not be in the numbers, which are usually associated with him.

I believe my holster in post #129 is one of Kluge's holsters before 1912, and Tim's holster in post #86 is a Kluge holster after the 1912 purchase by Brill.

These are my thoughts for the moment. I think Charles W Kluge did not come into his own with holsters until the mid-1920s, when he was working for the A W Brill Company. His time and effort up until then was spent with the making of saddles.

This wouldn't make since if my above post about mine and Tim's holsters is true.

The popular holsters for the A W Brill Company, prior to the mid-1920s, were being made by a 3rd, unnamed person according to an article in the Austin Statesman newspaper dated Sunday, May 18, 1924.

I call this 3rd person, the "mystery man". The mystery man is clearly noted in the newspaper article concerning the A W Brill Company of Austin, and it is not Charles W Kluge.

Again, I say Kluge is the mystery man as evidenced by the 1924 and Kluge's obituary quotes above.

Charles W Kluge, however, is also recognized in the same article but only as a fine saddle maker. Credit for the "thousands" of holsters made for the A W Brill Company (as per the newspaper article) between 1912 and 1924 goes to the "mystery man". Who is this "mystery man"?

Charlie Kluge

I believe this "mystery man" represents not a single person but rather a grouping or a contingent of "Brill-a-like" holster makers. The A W Brill Company hired these leather designers to make a myriad of holsters during this early period but with no stamp on the cuff or name on the back.

I don't think they would say mystery man if it was a group of leather craftsmen.

Charles W Kluge, as one of these Brill-a-like holster makers, was allowed to use the A W Brill maker stamp since he was an employee of the Company, however, I do not think he was given credit on a public notice by the Company until the 2nd half of the 1920s.

You are right, as proven by Tim's holster in post #86.

The above may sound absurd, but it may help to explain why the A W Brill Company was able to produce "thousands" of holsters during this early period and why the holster maker continues to remain unnamed by the Company in the 1924 newspaper article since the maker was actually a grouping of holster makers.

Was N J Rabensburg one of these "Brill-a-like" holster makers as well? I think it is a real possibility.

I don't think so. I believe he obviously made the advanced designed Brill marked holsters from 1932 onward.

JMHO!

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg
END OF QUOTE

From the recent comments marked in red, I do have several of my own replies to the reply. These are as follows:

1. The holsters made by N J Rabensburg when he was either a kid or as a mature adult did not carry his own maker mark. In his Austin home workshop located at 1903 N Lamar, his holsters during his retirement years mostly displayed the A W Brill mark on the cuff. Please see the attached 1959 photo of six (6) brand new N J Rabensburg holsters tagged and ready for sale. All of these sported the A W Brill maker mark.

2. Yes, N J Rabensburg as a youth and young adult learned a part of his leather trade either in La Grange, Dallas, New Mexico, Utah and then again in La Grange during his "educational or enlightened period", which spanned from about 1906 to 1918.

3. I believe Captain Hughes made his initial contact with N J Rabensburg a few years earlier than 1908. The Stan Nelson article says he visited with him at his place of employment. The location in the article implies the city of Austin, but Rabensburg was actually working between 1906 and 1910 in La Grange at the La Grange Saddle Company facing the Town Square. Captain Hughes could have met with him in La Grange, or perhaps the two did have a conference session in Austin at one of the local saddlery shops, where his holster designs were discussed.

4. Photos of Rangers Kiowa Jones in 1910 and Frank Hamer in December 1906 show both men sporting Rabensburg holsters. Please see the attached photos. A closeup image of the left-handed holster worn by Jones on his right side displays a familiar image. The front embellished with a basketweave pattern indicates no visible maker mark on the cuff. This holster appears to be of the advanced form and, thus, at least twenty-two (22) years prior to Rabensburg’s 1932 debut at the A W Brill Company in Austin. This Jones photo of a very early Rabensburg holster would refute the comment marked in red, which said, “I don’t think so. I believe he (Rabensburg) obviously made the advanced designed Brill marked holster from 1932 onward.” The advanced design, however, was pictorially there much earlier in 1910 and, obviously was considered very acceptable by several elite Texas Rangers, who are willing to tout their hardware and leather apparel for the camera.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

The following is an article titled SOME THOUGHTS ON GUN LEATHER by the author Stan Nelson. It was published in the MINNESOTA WEAPONS COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION OFFICIAL PUBLICATION, Volume No. 22 Issue No. 1, January 2008, pages 10-14.

“On a trip to Texas in the early 1950’s, my brother Bill and I found verification of Captain Sterling’s comments on the town or “Sunday” holster. We were visiting that old Texas historian and publisher, J. Marvin Hunter, (founder of FRONTIER TIMES magazine, author of ALBUM OF GUNFIGIITERS; PEREGRINATIONS OF A PIONEER PRINTER; etc.),” (who is) “a man steeped in Texas Ranger history.

Mr. Hunter personally knew many of the old Frontier Battalion Rangers”. (His) “own brother-in-law was Texas Ranger, Frank McMahan, whose sister was married to George Scarborough, who had killed John Selman, who had killed John Wesley Hardin, etc., etc. In 1895, Mr. Hunter had met John Wesley Hardin himself when Hardin came into the Mason, Texas newspaper office to see about getting a small book published. A very knowledgeable man, Mr. J. Marvin Hunter.

From him, we obtained the address of a retired saddle maker, who had made holsters for such Ranger luminaries as Captains John R. Hughes, Frank Hamer, and W. W. Sterling. Needless to say, we looked this veteran up when we hit Austin. His name was” (N J) “Rabensburg, a lean, weathered looking man, soft spoken and reflective in conversation. Although retired, he had a small workshop in his garage and was doing some custom leather work and repair.

Our visit became rewarding in more ways than one for he agreed to make us some holsters. Of major interest to us was his acquaintance with Captain John R. Hughes. Hughes had spent much of his long career down on the Mexican border, but during 1906-07 was stationed at Ranger Headquarters in Austin. One day, he stopped at the saddle shop where Mr. Rabensburg was employed and asked to have a particular style of holster made.

Texas was pretty civilized by this time and some politicians did not approve of the Rangers walking city streets bristling with six-guns and cartridge belts. Hughes wanted a holster that his men could wear on a trouser belt, under a coat at times, and yet allow for a quick draw when necessary. Combining the requirements and practical ideas of an experienced gun handler with the skill of a fine leather craftsman resulted in the “Sunday” holster seen in the photographs accompanying this article. These holsters have a short, stiff shank and considerable forward pitch.

Being intended for carrying on a plain high ride belt they are essentially holsters for short, barreled revolvers and, in truth, one seldom sees photos of Rangers packing 7 1/2” barrel Colts. Mr. Rabensburg said that he had made similar holsters prior to this with a longer shank to fit over a wide cartridge belt, but these did not have quite the same degree of forward pitch.

In a 1906 photo Texas Rangers Hamer and Hudson are wearing this type of holster,
while in another photo Ranger “Kiowa’ Jones shows off his “Sunday” scabbard.

The closeup photographs are of holsters made for my brother and me by Mr. Rabensburg from the exact pattern of this “Sunday” holster. These are sturdy, practical, and beautifully made; form following function exemplified. To the discerning eye, comparison of these holsters with the much later Threepersons/Myres, and the Keith/Lawrence styles show almost identical profile and forward pitch.

Mr. Rabensburg made holsters to order and put no mark of his own on them. Since these were custom made some are found, as are ours, stamped with the owner’s initials. Collectors of gun leather emphasize the importance of maker’s logos stamped on their work and it is nice to be able to show a piece of leather marked Meana, Miles City, Garcia, etc. But as with the unmarked Rabensburg holsters, I have seen over the years some well-conceived, nicely made, old belt, hip-pocket, and shoulder holsters Mark ed with no makers stamp and would certainly not discount them for that reason alone. As necessary adjuncts to the weapons they carried and to the purposes to which they were obviously designed, they have their own story to tell.”

Comparing a Hughes Rabensburg holster in the middle to the later Threepersons/Myres at the Bottom and Keith Lawrence at the Top Styles Show Almost Identical Profile and Forward Pitch.

Frank Hamer C Co Texas Ranger with an Early Rabensburg Holster Photo Taken at Del Rio Texas in December 1906

Texas Ranger Nat B Kiowa Jones Showing Off His Ivory Handled Colt in a Rabensburg Sunday Holster 1910

A Rabensburg Sunday Holster for a 4 3/4 inch S A Colt No 10

A Rabensburg Rig for a S A Colt Sheriffs Model

Rough and ready Sgt. Milam Wright,
D Co. Texas Ranger with his “scout”
belt and “Mexican loop” holster, 1899.
D Co. Texas Ranger Bass Outlaw,
packing his S.A. Colt in a low cut holster
with the “retreat strap” clearly showing.

boykinlp · #**139** 05-29-2022, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eddie Southgate

Mine pictured with the Colt in it is on a 1" Ranger belt and the fit is very tight. If I remember correctly Red identified it as an early Rabensburg Brill.

In your post #42, the holster in your picture below is actually a Kluge, I believe.

boykinlp · #**140** 05-29-2022, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabensburg

1. The holsters made by N J Rabensburg when he was either a kid or as a mature adult did not carry his own maker mark. In his Austin home workshop located at 1903 N Lamar, his holsters during his retirement years mostly displayed the A W Brill mark on the cuff. Please see the attached 1959 photo of six (6) brand new N J Rabensburg holsters tagged and ready for sale. All of these sported the A W Brill maker mark.

I agree, very nice Rabensburg holsters.

2. Yes, N J Rabensburg as a youth and young adult learned a part of his leather trade either in La Grange, Dallas, New Mexico, Utah and then again in La Grange during his "educational or enlightened period", which spanned from about 1906 to 1918.

Yes, a leather worker in training.

3. I believe Captain Hughes made his initial contact with N J Rabensburg a few years earlier than 1908. The Stan Nelson article says he visited with him at his place of employment. The location in the article implies the city of Austin, but Rabensburg was actually working between 1906 and 1910 in La Grange at the La Grange Saddle Company facing the Town Square. Captain Hughes could have met with him in La Grange, or perhaps the two did have a conference session in Austin at one of the local saddlery shops, where his holster designs were discussed.

He just as easy could have met him in Austin, just at a later date. It is much easier for us to remember places than dates. You can very easily remember being somewhere, but rarely can you remember the exact dates.

4. Photos of Rangers Kiowa Jones in 1910 and Frank Hamer in December 1906 show both men sporting Rabensburg holsters. Please see the attached photos. A closeup image of the left-handed holster worn by Jones on his right side displays a familiar image. The front embellished with a basketweave pattern indicates no visible maker mark on the cuff. This holster appears to be of the advanced form and, thus, at least twenty-two (22) years prior to Rabensburg’s 1932 debut at the A W Brill Company in Austin. This Jones photo of a very early Rabensburg holster would refute the comment marked in red, which said, “I don’t think so. I believe he (Rabensburg) obviously made the advanced designed Brill marked holster from 1932 onward.” The advanced design, however, was pictorially there much earlier in 1910 and, obviously was considered very acceptable by several elite Texas Rangers, who are willing to tout their hardware and leather apparel for the camera.

Photos of the Rangers show them sporting holsters, not necessarily Rabensburg holsters. How can you tell with those small no detail pictures. It could just as easy be a Kluge made holster which would make much more sense in 1906 and 1910. Again, you can't determine that "Sunday Scabbard" is the advanced Rabensburg designed holster.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg.

Neale, I answered your responses above, and in the pictures you posted, I see no way to determine which type of Brill holster is being worn by the gentleman. Even the one with the blow up doesn't help me, maybe Red could tell the difference.
Larry

rednichols · #**141** 05-29-2022, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boykinlp

Neale, I answered your responses above, and in the pictures you posted, I see no way to determine which type of Brill holster is being worn by the gentleman. Even the one with the blow up doesn't help me, maybe Red could tell the difference.
Larry

I'm having to deduce that you're speaking of the images of Hamer and Hudson from Stan Nelson's article. His is an excellent introduction to the field of study but the holsters shown on Hamer and Hudson are not of the Brill style, but of the King Ranch style. We also have pics of Hamer's holster and they show that Nelson was mistaken. Doc White also wore this holster and he is photographed with it in 1906, 1935, and 1950.

The image of Ranger Kiowa Jones absolutely IS a Brill and by Kluge; and we know this by recognizing its styling and knowing that Jones was a suicide in 1928 (with the rifle he is holding) so not a Brill by Rabensburg. The image also tells us that Jones was left-handed: the image is not 'flopped' (shirt, trousers, rifle action) so the holster is a leftie moved 'round to the right side and the pistol turned in it for the benefit of the photographer; very common practice in those times. I have a gigantic image from the Texas Rangers museum (and it is in Holstory the First Edition so you would've wanted to refer to it there for confirmation already) that is so good that we can see why Kiowa was called 'the ugliest man in TX': cysts all over his face:

1928 ranger jones 3-Colorized.jpg

boykinlp · #**142** 05-29-2022, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rednichols

I'm having to deduce that you're speaking of the images of Hamer and Hudson from Stan Nelson's article. His is an excellent introduction to the field of study but the holsters shown on Hamer and Hudson are not of the Brill style, but of the King Ranch style. We also have pics of Hamer's holster and they show that Nelson was mistaken. Doc White also wore this holster and he is photographed with it in 1906, 1935, and 1950.

The image of Ranger Kiowa Jones absolutely IS a Brill and by Kluge; and we know this by recognizing its styling and knowing that Jones was a suicide in 1928 (with the rifle he is holding) so not a Brill by Rabensburg. The image also tells us that Jones was left-handed: the image is not 'flopped' (shirt, trousers, rifle action) so the holster is a leftie moved 'round to the right side and the pistol turned in it for the benefit of the photographer; very common practice in those times. I have a gigantic image from the Texas Rangers museum (and it is in Holstory the First Edition so you would've wanted to refer to it there for confirmation already) that is so good that we can see why Kiowa was called 'the ugliest man in TX': cysts all over his face:

Attachment 576534

Thanks, Red. I could hardly see the holsters, much less the detail that would be required for ME to identify them, but I thought if it could be done, you would be the one to do it, like I said. That is why you are THE holster expert. I'll have to check out the gigantic picture in Holstory. In the "blow up" that Neale provided, Jones's holster did look the most like a Brill, but I still couldn't see enough detail to tell definitively. When I first looked at Neale's smaller black and white picture of Jone's holster, I was thinking that the revolver fit was terrible, but then I realized that the gun was pulled out and turned to see it better. Also, when you blow up the color picture, you can see Jones's belt. It looks very thin, which makes sense, but it looks very, very flimsy too. That is surprising to me.
Larry

arabensburg · #**143** 05-30-2022, 06:44 PM

The attached 1910 image is of Texas Ranger Kiowa Jones touting his gun hardware and leather gear apparel. Detail of his leather gun holster is emphasized.

If this is a King Ranch holster, then is a twin to a "Brill" type holster of the early period by Rabensburg or Kluge.

This is a left hand holster worn on Kiowa Jones' right hip/leg. The holster is facing to the rear. The welt edge is in view along with the face of the holster with its basket weave pattern and its very curvilinear cuff (a Rabensburg trademark) with no maker mark visible. The welt stack, in my opinion, needs another welt or two, which will become another trademark for Rabensburg during his enlightenment period.

Gun collector and historian Stan Nelson says Kiowa Jones is wearing a Rabensburg holster. No Charles W. Kluge is mentioned in the article published in January 2008 based on a personal interview during the early 1950s or about seventy (70) years ago with people (one being a very honest Newton Joseph Rabensburg), who would be closer to the real story than those, who are making historical statements today based upon:

1. Supposition.

2. A 1944 obituary on Charles W. Kluge authored by a family member, who was obviously not censored on embellishments.

3. A rejection of N J Rabensburg based on age and not technical prowess and artistic talent.

Also, censorship was not a factor with the obituary for Arno W. Brill, who died in Houston in 1968. The Brill family also wanted a piece of the holster pie when it said, “the firm developed the Brill holster, worn by many Texas peace officers”.

It would be impossible for me to come “on-board” with this reversal of the historical record because I would be calling my grandfather, N J Rabensburg, a liar. Since I know he was beyond reproach and a man of his word, who expected the same from his fellow associates and friends.

These virtues with honesty at the top of the list were instilled in my Dad and his brothers. What was said seventy (70) years ago still holds true for me today, and I am sure for scores of the followers of Stan Nelson, whom I understand died only two years ago at the age of ninety-six (96) and had been a marine and an avid gun collector and historian.

I would like to be on-board for this recent twist of history, but will have to say no to supposition, a 1944 obituary and a rejection of ability due to a youthful age. Newton Joseph Rabensburg was a gifted seventeen (17) year old, and probably a prodigy in leather making. His father was a saddler with tools available to his son at birth.

When N J Rabensburg met with Captain Hughes during his tenure in Austin, he, also, may have had the attention of others due to his prowess in leather making. Rejection due to age is condescending since the world has had a host of youthful prodigies to boast.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

boykinlp · #**144** 05-30-2022, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabensburg

The attached 1910 image is of Texas Ranger Kiowa Jones touting his gun hardware and leather gear apparel. Detail of his leather gun holster is emphasized.

If this is a King Ranch holster, then is a twin to a "Brill" type holster of the early period by Rabensburg or Kluge.

Neale, you are mixing up information. Red said:

"I'm having to deduce that you're speaking of the images of Hamer and Hudson from Stan Nelson's article. His is an excellent introduction to the field of study but the holsters shown on Hamer and Hudson are not of the Brill style, but of the King Ranch style. We also have pics of Hamer's holster and they show that Nelson was mistaken. Doc White also wore this holster and he is photographed with it in 1906, 1935, and 1950.

The image of Ranger Kiowa Jones absolutely IS a Brill and by Kluge; and we know this by recognizing its styling and knowing that Jones was a suicide in 1928 (with the rifle he is holding) so not a Brill by Rabensburg"

This is a left hand holster worn on Kiowa Jones' right hip/leg. The holster is facing to the rear. The welt edge is in view along with the face of the holster with its basket weave pattern and its very curvilinear cuff (a Rabensburg trademark) with no maker mark visible. The welt stack, in my opinion, needs another welt or two, which will become another trademark for Rabensburg during his enlightenment period.

You are right, the welt edge is in view, and it would need another welt or two to be a Rabensburg holster, without it though, it is a Kluge holster. I surely don't see "it's very curvilinear cuff" because I can only see half of it. Plus, I thought a curvaceous WELT STACK was the Rabensburg trademark.

Gun collector and historian Stan Nelson says Kiowa Jones is wearing a Rabensburg holster. No Charles W. Kluge is mentioned in the article published in January 2008 based on a personal interview during the early 1950s or about seventy (70) years ago with people (one being a very honest Newton Joseph Rabensburg), who would be closer to the real story than those, who are making historical statements today based upon:

I am guessing that Nelson didn't have a Kluge holster to compare it to.

1. Supposition.

Supposition is all through your posts here too. I mean anytime you use words like perhaps, may have, in my opinion, I would consider, I speculated, I would guess, you using supposition.

What would you call this?

"The "expert leatherworker" in the article is rather a contingent of early Brill-a-likes, who were selling their unmarked holsters and belts through a central clearing house, which was the A W Brill Company of Austin. Captain Hughes may have seeded the crop, but it was the A W Brill Company of Austin that reaped the rewards and sold many early Brill-a-likes made outside the Company."

I call that supposition.

2. A 1944 obituary on Charles W. Kluge authored by a family member, who was obviously not censored on embellishments.

Who knows who wrote the obit.

3. A rejection of N J Rabensburg based on age and not technical prowess and artistic talent.

Also, censorship was not a factor with the obituary for Arno W. Brill, who died in Houston in 1968. The Brill family also wanted a piece of the holster pie when it said, “the firm developed the Brill holster, worn by many Texas peace officers”.

It would be impossible for me to come “on-board” with this reversal of the historical record because I would be calling my grandfather, N J Rabensburg, a liar. Since I know he was beyond reproach and a man of his word, who expected the same from his fellow associates and friends.

I would never call your grandfather a liar.

These virtues with honesty at the top of the list were instilled in my Dad and his brothers. What was said seventy (70) years ago still holds true for me today, and I am sure for scores of the followers of Stan Nelson, whom I understand died only two years ago at the age of ninety-six (96) and had been a marine and an avid gun collector and historian.

I feel their were a few inconsistencies in his article.

I would like to be on-board for this recent twist of history, but will have to say no to supposition, a 1944 obituary and a rejection of ability due to a youthful age. Newton Joseph Rabensburg was a gifted seventeen (17) year old, and probably a prodigy in leather making. His father was a saddler with tools available to his son at birth.

More supposition.

When N J Rabensburg met with Captain Hughes during his tenure in Austin, he, also, may have had the attention of others due to his prowess in leather making. Rejection due to age is condescending since the world has had a host of youthful prodigies to boast.

NJ Rabensburg was an excellent holster maker. After 1932, he made great improvements to a holster which we know as the "advanced Brill holster". It is a fantastic holster, and his use of multi welts is very technological. But, he didn't make every Brill and pre Brill holster ever made.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

There is supposition everywhere. There are also facts, see post #132.
Larry

boykinlp · #**145** 05-31-2022, 12:41 PM

To me, these discussions we have had on one of our favorite holsters have been very interesting, sometimes contentious, and thought provoking. They have also been extremely fluid in nature. Just going back 5 years, so much has been learned mostly from the extensive research done by Red and Neale, but also a few others.

Red’s contribution, as a holster designer, consultant, and historian, has been invaluable. Few, if any, can look at a holster the way he does, and mentally break it down to it’s smallest components, and see the minute details involved in the design knowing how they work together. And, as we all know, you have to break these holsters down and see their details to determine their history. This may be more so with Brill holsters than any other. Neale’s contribution has been priceless too. With him having the direct family connection to NJ Rabensburg, we have been privy to information that no one else could bring to the table. His passion on the subject is evident in all his posts, because he is wanting to make sure his grandfather has his proper place in history. He has been able to bring first hand experience, family history, and memories to this discussion like nobody else could.

We have all learned that Brill holsters have quite a history, and much of it doesn’t involve the direct Brill family. It is very captivating because of some of the folks involved in this history. I mean, who here doesn’t like learning about the Texas Rangers? Brill’s history is intertwined with Texas Ranger history. A Governor of Texas is also part of their history. Another big event that had a large effect on Brill history was the advent of the automobile. Many Saddlery companies had to change direction or fade into extinction. Saddle making transitioned into holster and other leather goods.

This brought other players and places into Brill history. New Mexico, La Grange, Texas, Utah, and a few other places had parts in the history, but ultimately Austin, Texas was THE place. One of Kluge Brothers Saddlery’s owners, Charlie Kluge enters here. As the maker of some of the best saddles in the country, and with the advent of the automobile, he had to depend more on another product.....holsters. His early Brill-a-like holster was well made, is pretty easily identifiable,and just what the Rangers needed. Other makers, and there were many, joined in with their version.

The Brill holster finally makes it's appearance when the A. W. Brill Company was started by August Brill in 1912 when he purchased the Kluge Brothers Saddlery. To me, the draw to buy this company was their customer base and the holster that Charlie Kluge was making. The Brill family were good at marketing their products and salesmen, but not holster designers or makers.

During 1932, the history of Brill took another dramatic turn. Charlie Kluge would be turning 70 years old, and the country had been in a Depression since 1929. New blood and ideas were needed. A brilliant talented holster maker, NJ Rabensburg was the answer at first as an employee, then as new owner of AW Brill in 1935. His innovation new advanced design of the Brill holster was the answer. He changed the shape to be more curvaceous, added a stitch or two at the mouth of the holster to strengthen it, changed the stitching pattern of the cuff to the back of the holster, but more importantly, he added multiple welts to the holster. His ingenious fresh layered welt stack was revolutionary. He made Brill holsters both until his retirement in 1955, and after, until his death in 1961. This is the Brill holster that we are most familiar with, and love, today.
Larry

arabensburg · #**146** 05-31-2022, 01:38 PM

Attached please find the first five (5) pages of the Minnesota Weapons Collectors Association Official Publication, Volume 22, Issue No. 1 dated January 2008. This is a twenty (20) page document including cover. Fifteen (15) more pages will follow.

Please note that Stan Nelson is one of the publishers/staff members for this association. There were four (4) issues for the year 2008 comprising Volume 22, which means 2008 appears to be its twenty-second (22nd) year of operation.

Stan Nelson has his own article within this same publication concerning his visit to Texas in the early 1950s. The article on pages 10-14 is titled "Some Thoughts on Gun Leather". Mr. Nelson's brother accompanied him on this sojourn. Stan Nelson was in his early thirties (30s).

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**147** 05-31-2022, 02:50 PM

Please see attached pages 6-10. Stan Nelson starts his article on gun leather on page 10.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**148** 05-31-2022, 03:43 PM

Pages 11-15 of the Minnesota Weapons Collectors Association, Volume 22, Issue No. 1 dated January 2008 is attached. A meeting and interview by Stan Nelson with N J Rabensburg is featured in the last few pages of the Nelson article ending on page 14. Please read.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**149** 05-31-2022, 04:14 PM

Attached are the last five pages of Issue No.1, Volume 22 dated January 2008.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

arabensburg · #**150** 05-31-2022, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabensburg

Pages 11-15 of the Minnesota Weapons Collectors Association, Volume 22, Issue No. 1 dated January 2008 is attached. A meeting and interview by Stan Nelson with N J Rabensburg is featured in the last few pages of the Nelson article ending on page 14. Please read.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg

Please find the enlarged and detail photos with captions by Stan Nelson from the Minnesota Weapons Collectors Publication, Volume 22, Issue No.1 dated January 2008.

The photos are of Texas Rangers Kiowa Jones in 1910 and Frank Hamer in December 1906, Del Rio, Texas. Both men are sporting Rabensburg holsters based on Nelson's interview with N J Rabensburg about seventy (70) years ago.

Submitted by Neale Rabensburg