VINTAGE FBI HOLSTERS

crazyphil · Jul 6, 2018

My collection is little, but growing. Below left to right as follow:

Myres #614 Tom Threepersons style. Very popular with Agents.
Authorized but not issued. They had to buy their own. On a
Carson Ranger belt, Solingen blade, & USAFSS cap. Notice the
front of the trigger guard on my model 29 with 4" barrel is not
resting on the welt as it should be. Why? The holster was made
for a 3.5" N Frame magnum.

Lawrence 34B FBI style "extra quick draw". The B is for basket
stamped. Lawrence also made some beautiful floral carved which
was 34F. Lawrence FBI models came along later than the others.
I don't know if they were authorized or not. If anyone knows,
let me know. Shown on a Lawrence cartridge belt. The knife
is Sharp's Bowie. And my Stetson.

Crump holsters were issued by the FBI. In the early 1950s a
new agent would have a choice. A S&W M&P or Colt's OP.
Holsters by Crump or Heiser (provided through Evaluators)
were issued. On an old floral stamped belt.

Heiser pre-457. I call it a pre because there is no 457 mark on
it. It is the older HHH logo, and identical to the 457 which came
along a little later. The belt is by Simply Rugged. The knife is
a Junkyard Dog II by Kershaw. My USAF Vet. Cap.

Heiser 459. By the early 1950s holsters with hammer protector,
from Heiser and Crump were being issued. The hammer spur on
the Agent's revolver would shred the lining of their suit jacket,
so the protector was the answer. The famous thirty dollar belt,
that I spruced up with a buckle set. Bear knife & Boonie hat.

KalamazooKid · Jul 6, 2018

LoboGunLeather · Jul 6, 2018

Nice collection you have there. Thanks for sharing.

One factor that never seems to come up in discussing holster designs and developments over the years is the changes in mens' clothing, particularly the "rise" of trousers (distance from crotch to waistline). For most of the 20th Century, certainly until about 1960 or so, trousers were made to be worn much higher than has become common more recently. The trouser waist was usually at or above the navel, rather than at hip level, so the belt was worn several inches higher than the common practices we see today.

Holsters of that earlier period were usually designed with belt loops that allowed the holstered handgun to ride somewhat lower, which was necessary in order for the user to be able to draw the gun when needed. Also, belt loops were typically quite large, allowing the holster to pivot forward during the draw, which was a practical aid in use (although not very good at keeping the holster at a constant position or angle).

Mens' suitcoats and jackets were of a much fuller cut, rather than the more tailored look preferred today, which allowed for easier concealment of a holstered handgun.

When we look at some of these vintage holsters today we tend to wonder how anyone could ever achieve comfort and concealment in use. Moving the belt and holster up from the hips several inches allows us to understand what the holster designer was dealing with.

crazyphil · Jul 6, 2018

That's a good point Ray about the changes in the rise of men's pants.
The width of belts has also gone through some changes over the years.
If I'm remembering correctly the semi-dress type belts back in the 1950s
were very, very narrow. The fashion industry changes things often so
they can sell more products. Ties are another good example. Wide to
narrow and back again.

turnerriver · Jul 6, 2018

This is a stretch, here’s a model 58 in a lined Heiser 459.
It will need a very loose coat to go under.
Regards,
turnerriver

Gunfiter · Jul 7, 2019

I know its been a year since anyone added anything to this thread, but I had a question. I started in the 80's and I might be a child of my environment, but when I look at these holsters all I see is no method of gun retention. I'd be afraid to do anything physical for fear of the damned gun falling out. Everyone used them so they must have worked, am I missing something?

Texas Star · Jul 7, 2019

Gunfiter said:
I know its been a year since anyone added anything to this thread, but I had a question. I started in the 80's and I might be a child of my environment, but when I look at these holsters all I see is no method of gun retention. I'd be afraid to do anything physical for fear of the damned gun falling out. Everyone used them so they must have worked, am I missing something?

Agents were taught to run with the elbow pressing on the holstered gun.

jimmyj · Jul 7, 2019

The Myres #614 in black is what we qualified with "Back In The Day" however our duty holster was a "Cross Draw" holster. Range ammo was 148 grain wad cutters reloads and duty ammo was 158 grain LRN factory.
And yet we survived !

crazyphil · Jul 7, 2019

Gunfiter said:
I know its been a year since anyone added anything to this thread, but I had a question. I started in the 80's and I might be a child of my environment, but when I look at these holsters all I see is no method of gun retention. I'd be afraid to do anything physical for fear of the damned gun falling out. Everyone used them so they must have worked, am I missing something?

In his book Handgunner's Guide, Chic Gaylord said "With a
properly fitted scabbard you should be able to turn the holster
upside down and shake it without the gun falling out."

The holsters I show on this thread are formed so snugly around
the gun that they have a tight friction fit that passes Chic's test.

LoboGunLeather · Jul 7, 2019

crazyphil said:
In his book Handgunner's Guide, Chic Gaylord said "With a
properly fitted scabbard you should be able to turn the holster
upside down and shake it without the gun falling out."

The holsters I show on this thread are formed so snugly around
the gun that they have a tight friction fit that passes Chic's test.

Well put, but also pointing to a pivotal point in holster marketing.

Up until the 1970's at least most large holster makers adhered to the "one size fits many" approach. Makers offered "size charts" that grouped multiple handguns into a single holster application (such as Colt Official Police, Smith & Wesson M&P, etc). Holster fit was seldom perfect, and frequently far from close.

Chic Gaylord and others pioneered the era of holsters closely fitted to a specific handgun while most big-name companies continued to offer holsters based on a grouping of applications. Close form fitting of the holster and boning the leather to the details of each specific handgun became the hallmark of the custom maker.

Over time this approach has become the norm and we see much less of the "Size 1, Size 2, Size 3, etc" marketing.

During the same time frame we experienced the general transition from revolvers to semi-auto pistols for most law enforcement and personal protection applications, and the development of striker-fired semi-autos without manual safety devices. Holsters again evolved in response to these trends, with covered trigger guards and various retention devices never seen prior to the late 1980's. Law enforcement holsters are now routinely rated per DOJ standards based upon retention levels. Various plastic products and heat-moldable materials have evolved, competing with hand-made leather holsters for market dominance.

Interesting times, which I participated in from 1972 to 2015 with Lobo Gun Leather starting as a little sideline when I was a young policeman and evolving into a business serving customers in all 50 US states and 33 other countries. Now I am retired and Mark Fedders and his family will carry Lobo Gun Leather forward into whatever the future may bring.

crazyphil · Jul 7, 2019

And here is a good example of that form fitting and boning to the specific
details of the gun for which the holster is made. It was made by Ray when
he was Lobo Gun Leather.

A perfect fit for my Model 19 with 4" barrel.

LoboGunLeather · Jul 7, 2019

crazyphil said:
And here is a good example of that form fitting and boning to the specific
details of the gun for which the holster is made. It was made by Ray when
he was Lobo Gun Leather.

A perfect fit for my Model 19 with 4" barrel.

I remember that holster. A model I never offered on a regular basis. Basically an adaptation of the Threepersons style with a Hank Sloan style outer hammer shield. Folks today might call that "retro", incorporating a basic design dating back nearly 100 years with a feature that was popular about 50 years ago.

Once in a while I encountered a customer who shared my interest in the "old school" stuff, and I tried to accommodate those folks.

Nice set of Jordan Trooper grips on that Model 19, Phil! Don't see those every day anymore.

crazyphil · Jul 8, 2019

Here is an example of the "One size that fits many" that Ray referred to.
It's a Lawrence 1C in size 540. I call it a field style holster, and most all
makers had some version of the style.

1C was the Lawrence Challenger model. "Lawrence's quality construction
in a lighter grade of leather." They offered the 1C size 540 for six
different S&W 2" models and Charter's Undercover.

In the early 1960s we could buy one from Lawrence for $5.45

My example is shown on a Lawrence cartridge belt with Charter's
Undercover .38 spl.

I doubt the holster, with any of the guns it was made for, would
pass the Chic Gaylord test that I mentioned in a post above.
Unless the retention strap was firmly snapped in place.

rednichols · Jul 8, 2019

It's an unsustainable argument, that if men once wore their belts at navel height vs below it, that holsters were configured to carry the pistol accordingly and so lower than today's: the Brill carries the revolver as absolutely high as possible given its construction; i.e., the belt tunnel is folded just as close to the end of the welt stitching as feasible. That's higher than even a Heiser 459 of 1950.

The Brill is as close to the beginning of the 20th century as we can get, originating in 1907; and was explicitly created to be worn concealed on a trousers belt. Recognizing that trousers belts themselves -- i.e., loops on pants for a belt -- were equally new; around 1904 and so the Brill was itself a response to these loops' appearance.

Instead what these men -- and I'm thinking of the Texas Rangers of the early 20th century, FBI agents Bryce and Campbell -- did was wear the belt lower sometimes by wearing them looser. These images are all 1930s:

Campbell

Bryce

Nowka

Sloan

A wander through Chic Gaylord's catalogs and book indicates that holsters of his era that included most of the 1950s (he first appeared as a holster maker in 1953) were every bit as high as today's; with one caveat: beginning in the 1970s holsters that carried ridiculously high like the Bianchi Avenger appeared. It was unsustainable and today we use the same standard for autos that both Chic and Paris used, both explicitly in their writings and implicitly in their products: mag button of the 1911 just above the belt.

A 1955 Gaylord catalog image:

SG-688 · Jul 10, 2019

Gunfiter said:
I know its been a year since anyone added anything to this thread, but I had a question. I started in the 80's and I might be a child of my environment, but when I look at these holsters all I see is no method of gun retention. I'd be afraid to do anything physical for fear of the damned gun falling out. Everyone used them so they must have worked, am I missing something?

Red has previously mentioned this in other discussions.

Bill Rogers has written that he designed his break front plastic holster in 1972 in response to agents in Chicago losing their holstered revolvers. That was in the era of the Hank Sloan Bucheimer holster designed with the adjustable welt for added retention, although Rogers never specified which holsters were dropping their revolvers. The Rogers was popular with agents, but we've never determined if it was an issue item.

I'll throw in a picture of Sloan wearing a Clark shoulder holster - the harness was unique to that model Clark - in a 30's class photo. We don't think of FBI and shoulder holsters going together, but the archives show orders to Clark.

The agent two to Sloan's right is carrying cross draw in a holster with a strap over the back of the trigger guard.

I found the photo in an FBI Bulletin article about the founding of Quantico.

VINTAGE FBI HOLSTERS

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