Dumpers?

jcs266 · #51 04-03-2020, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VaTom

Went through LEO Basic in 1976. We carried Model 10's (nickel) and drop pouches. This is how we were trained to load (for right handers). Drop pouch on right side of duty belt. Hold the revolver in left hand with two middle fingers around cylinder (see picture). Use thumb to eject empty casings and to turn cylinder while loading bullets with right hand. Keep muzzle pointed downward and down range with left shoulder pointed towards target (standing sideways to target) makes yourself a smaller target. During qualification we had six in revolver, twelve in drop pouches and the remainder in right pants pocket. Holding the revolver this way you are less likely to drop it and harder for a bad guy to take it away. Have seen many folks load revolvers all sorts of ways. Recently took my nephew and brother to range. Nephew never shot a revolver and brother very rarely. Taught them this method. Still use this method after all these years!

In March 1985 this is also how I was taught to hold the gun and use a speed-loader. It was a secure grip on the gun during the reload and ejection with the thumb was very positive as you reached for the speed-loader pouch on the right side of the belt.

jscott · #52 04-03-2020, 05:11 PM

Bi monthly range visits for this retiree always include a revolver segment. Youngsters next to me asked what my speed loaders were for. Times change. Anyway, I found the left thumb ejection to sometimes not be enough to dislodge a sticky empty casing. One hard strike with right palm never fails. Also learned to shoot 2 and reload 2 from a 2x2x2 pouch. Got lots of autos, but my 4” M19 saved my butt many times.

jimgoldth · #53 04-30-2020, 04:20 PM

Looking through my stuff I found a modified dump pouch that I had almost forgotten. As a police officer I sometimes worked plain clothes details in the 1980s and my plain clothes duty revolver was this S&W model 13, 3" modified to DA only. I modified the 2 pouch Bucheimer Dumper by cutting it in half. I had a 6 round reload with a Bianchi Speed Strip. The IWB soft green leather Safariland holster held the model 13 out of sight.

Kurusu · #54 04-30-2020, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayFramer

Anyone use the old dumper pouches?

I read police for many years, some clear up through the 80s, used these pouches that dump a load of cartridges in your palm so you can reload your cylinder one round at a time.

Quite frankly, that sounds like a fumbly nightmare to me. I could not imagine running dry in a gunfight and having to use one of these pouches. Even more shocking is some large departments like NYPD used these as recently as 30 years ago when revolvers fell out of favor in LEO circles.

What are yalls thoughts on these dump pouches? Anyone ever used one on duty, or God forbid, have to reload under stress with in? Just curious.

Thanks!

-Jay

I think I would prefer an old fashion loop gunbelt to that thing.

jscott · #55 04-30-2020, 05:03 PM

Jim Goldth, love that rig. Old School gun fighter set up. Would still work.

WuzzFuzz · #56 04-30-2020, 05:23 PM

Now everyone knows why Barney was only given one bullet.

WuzzFuzz

Gene L · #57 04-30-2020, 11:59 PM

I started in 71 as well, and I'm not sure speed loaders had been invented then. I never saw any if they had. In 77 or so we had dump pouches, but I don't remember speed strips. I started using speed loaders when I started shooting PPC. The best way to reload, not the most concealable when you need to conceal.

texmex · #58 05-01-2020, 12:42 AM

I went through the police academy in 1974. Most officers back then had 12 extra rounds in loops. I was a gun guy so I had HKS speed loaders. The 12 round cartridge loop carrier tookup about 9 or 10 inches on the belt. We were all skinnier back then so for some of the guys, trying to fit 2 pairs of cuffs, a radio, holster and ammo just about used up all the space. The 2 HKS speed loaders held 12 rounds and only took up about 5 inches. My nearest backup was 25 miles and a ferry ride away. In addition to the speed loaders, I could carry 12 rounds in dump pouches and only used 6 inches of space. Those rounds would be available for a tactical reload saving the speed loaders for a fast reload.
At the academy, we did not use either one . We dumped 50 rounds of 38 wad cutters in our right pants pocket. Pretty soon, you got good at reaching in your pocket and grabbing 6 rounds.

jscott · #59 05-01-2020, 08:43 AM

25 miles and a ferry ride? Yowzer!

Gene L · #60 05-01-2020, 07:05 PM

Back when the Georgia State Patrol carried .357s, they carried 6 rounds of armor piercing ammo in loops on their patent leather. These were supposedly to shoot through an engine block to disable a vehicle, which a .357 was supposed to be able to do. These were brass-cased kinda pointy tipped rounds and the troopers kept them polished. I don't know if they ever used them for that. Don't know how they carried regular .357s.

jonh1373 · #61 05-01-2020, 08:37 PM

Became a US Treasury Agent in 1973. We we issued dump pouches that wrapped around our pants belt and carried the rounds horizonatally with bullet down. They were a pain to get used to but you could get pretty proficient with use. Agreed that they were not the best but were way beter than carrying extra rounds in your pocket with your keys, change, lighter, or none at all. I still have my first issued pouch and still wear it when I carry my 640 Pro.

31FordA · #62 05-01-2020, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonh1373

Became a US Treasury Agent in 1973. We we issued dump pouches that wrapped around our pants belt and carried the rounds horizonatally with bullet down. They were a pain to get used to but you could get pretty proficient with use. Agreed that they were not the best but were way beter than carrying extra rounds in your pocket with your keys, change, lighter, or none at all. I still have my first issued pouch and still wear it when I carry my 640 Pro.

When I was hired by the county in 1997 I was partnered with an investigator who had been on the job since 1972. Since I was carrying a 19-7 he gave me two of those dump pouches that he no longer needed. A dump pouch, and a speed loader in the pocket of my sport coat, was sufficient for many years. I still use those old pouches, they work fine, although they’re probably as old as I am.

gerhard1 · #63 05-01-2020, 11:53 PM

I used the dump pouches in the early 1970's when I did armed security work. They were awkward, I thought.

sigp220.45 · #64 05-02-2020, 01:25 PM

Lots of the revolver guys in the Bureau carried their spare ammo in 2x2 pouches. Not as fast as a speedloader, but quicker than a dump pouch.

THE PILGRIM · #65 05-02-2020, 01:56 PM

Here’s one I was issued.
It’s mounted in the up position, but of course will swing down for dumping when unsnapped.

SoulStealer · #66 05-03-2020, 03:50 PM

I have found that the "dump pouch" will hold a 5 shot 38 spc Speed Strip just fine.

I rather carry speed strip for my pocket 38 and the plain black dump pouch gives nothing away.

texmex · #67 05-03-2020, 04:46 PM

Reloading the revolver has really evolved over the years. Now, I open the revolver and hold it muzzle up in my left hand, eject the full moon clip and spent rounds, point the muzzle down and practically throw in a full moon clip, then close up with the revolver in both hands. This has to be modified somewhat if you are trying to hold a flashlight also. Also good to practice with reloading seated or behind cover or prone or with one hand in case of injury. I will have to admit the auto loader is quicker and easier one handed or prone. Fortunately, most of us will never need to reload, but most of the situations I have studied, if you need to reload, you need it quickly and surely.

flagman1776 · #68 05-03-2020, 05:22 PM

I started in 1977. I was fortunate to be able to carry a double speedloader pouch on my right side... after I qualifed with them including dropping them in the sandy range. My FTO had had his drop boxes come open when his belt scraped on some obstruction... He and I remained on the scene to recover his ammo by flashlight.
I cut a drop box to a single, the kind where part of the unit goes behind the belt and the box hinges to fold up in front. I had leather tools and added a snap at the top internal edge so the flap snap wasn't the only thing holding it. I carried it between the speedloader and the holster on my right so it was protected. To open, I'd flip the flap with my thumb coming up, then same thumb release it with a downward motion. Even though I carried a 357, I had 38 HPs in a speed strip in the box. Some officers still carried M10s so it could be a partner reload.

DWalt · #69 05-03-2020, 05:41 PM

I have several sets of them, but never used them. I have speed loaders also, but never used them either. Seems to me that dump pouches were at least a step up from belt loops.

max503 · #70 05-03-2020, 05:50 PM

I snagged these at a pawn shop for $5. They are made by Bauer Brothers and they appear to be unused. I'm going to use them for hunting and woods walking.

texmex · #71 05-03-2020, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max503

I snagged these at a pawn shop for $5. They are made by Bauer Brothers and they appear to be unused. I'm going to use them for hunting and woods walking.

Those are good because you can open the top flap and push the cartridges out the bottom, all at once or a few at a time.

Jellybean · #72 04-21-2021, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BB57

... In the Stress Fire reload, you hold the gun vertically and hold the cylinder open with the thumb on your right hand between the cylinder and frame while striking the ejector rod with your left hand. It ensures a straight shot on the ejector rod with no finger in the way to shorten the stroke...

I know this thread has been dormant for a year, but then so have I, when I read this I had to chuckle.

When I was in my basic academy the topic of ejecting brass this way came up. The instructor said to never "slap or hit" the ejector rod as it increases the chance the ejector star may slip past a case rim and the case will get trapped underneath it, and is a real pain to get out.

Several years later I read a magazine article by Masaad Ayoob where he was describing his technique like above and I decided I'd give it a try to see how it compares. On the very first try the star slipped past a case rim...and it was a real pain to get the case out.

I did learn why all those old police officers carried a Buck 110 on their belts and put mine back on.

crazyphil · #73 04-21-2021, 04:20 PM

I liked the 2by2 pouches, but I like the speed strip pouch even better.
Here is one made by Pechenino Leather with a Bianchi speed strip it it.
The revolver is a model 10 2" barrel. The holster is a vintage Lewis
crossdraw.

snubbyfan · #74 04-21-2021, 07:09 PM

A dump pouch would be a disaster for me, I prefer belt loops or speed strips in my pocket.

Jellybean · #75 04-23-2021, 06:20 PM

I had the Safariland hinged drop boxes with the plastic inserts mentioned earlier. They could hold the speed strips and if you removed the plastic inserts they would hold six rounds of .41 magnums in each side.

chief38 · #76 04-24-2021, 04:50 AM

While certainly not the best reload method (possibly the worst) I suppose the key to any method is constant practice. At one point years back, I was got pretty fast reloading from a 6 cartridge belt loop holder (2 at a time). I got to the point where I could fire 6 shots, reload and fire another 6 shots (accurately) into the target in 20 seconds.

Speed loaders are a bit faster however they are more cumbersome to carry as a civilian not wearing a duty belt. I'd rather have the belt loops with 6 extra rounds readily available than fumble for a speed loader somewhere in a pocket that is cumbersome to carry.

Again....... constant practice drills are the real answer no matter what the carry method. I will admit, I was never a fan of Dump Pouches.

Speaking of practice...... I have seen many fumble horribly with speed loaders too - again, any method needs constant practice.

chief38 · #77 04-24-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snubbyfan

A dump pouch would be a disaster for me, I prefer belt loops or speed strips in my pocket.

With practice, loading from this type of loop carrier can be really fast!! I like this style and when I tote a wheel gun I use a similar type. Speed Loaders are not conducive to the grips on my M60-7 and even if they were, it would be uncomfortable to carry (for me). Nice job BTW Snubby!

snubbyfan · #78 04-24-2021, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chief38

With practice, loading from this type of loop carrier can be really fast!! I like this style and when I tote a wheel gun I use a similar type. Speed Loaders are not conducive to the grips on my M60-7 and even if they were, it would be uncomfortable to carry (for me). Nice job BTW Snubby!

First time I hand stitched bullet loops for the first lined holster I ever made to match the first double layer belt I ever hand stitched.

EMS6260 · #79 04-24-2021, 03:20 PM

Dump pouches work if you practice. Still carry a single on me with 6 rounds, never know when it will be neeeded.

66 shooter · #80 04-24-2021, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

In 1972 just about all of us carried our extra ammo in cartridge loops. When reloading I practiced withdrawing and loading 2 rounds at a time, thinking that would cut down reloading time.

About 1975 we started seeing the Bianchi Speed Strips, which became very popular very quickly. As others have pointed out, selection of a pouch that would accept the Speed Strip was critical (not all would do so). Also, after long use the cartridge pouches could begin to collapse, losing their original shape, and this could make it difficult to withdraw the loaded Speed Strip.

Shortly after that HKS introduced their speedloaders, in virtually the same design as still seen today (a testament to an excellent design). Safariland followed with their own speedloader design, also very good. For either type carry pouches can be an issue, all being somewhat bulky on the belt, and some not allowing an easy and solid grip on the loader as it is withdrawn.

Throughout the 70's and 80's I've seen many different problems associated with reloading revolvers quickly under stress. On the range, during timed events requiring reloading, I've seen ammo scattered around on the ground and guys scrambling around trying to pick the loaded rounds out of all the spent brass. Tabs torn off the Bianchi Speed Strips were very common, and after some use the rubber around the cartridge rims could tear away. Grabbing a speedloader out of the pouch by the release knob can cause inadvertent release of the cartridges leaving the shooter with an empty speedloader in one hand and empty revolver in another hand. Dump pouches dropping 6 rounds into the hand for reloading seems like a good idea until you have to fumble with them under stress, frequently having to pick up several off the ground.

Interesting story about an old timer I knew back in those days. On the range or on the street he never used cartridge carriers. He carried his ammo loose in a pocket, reloading one round at a time as needed. His range routine was to eject his empties and put those in another pocket, saving the need to police up his brass after the end of the course. One night he was involved in a gun fight with a couple of bad guys barricaded behind a car, after which he found 12 fired cases in one pocket, where he had put them while reloading his revolver twice.

Sounds like the Newhall incident in California

mdf9183 · #81 04-24-2021, 04:19 PM

When I joined the PD in 1969 we were issued S&W Nickle 38/44 and two dump pouches that opened at the top and bottom. We went to speed loaders sometime in the mid 70 s.

Jellybean · #82 05-01-2021, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66 shooter

Sounds like the Newhall incident in California

It sounds like a rumor that didn't really happen at Newhall.