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09-28-2021, 06:00 AM
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Holster from Montana Shooting
July 22, 1968, Dillon, Montana. Steve Logan, operator of the
Moose Bar was trying to close at 2AM. Some of the customers
didn't want to leave, so Steve pulled the plug on the jukebox.
Henry Hoerster got mad because he had just put a dime in the
jukebox. Steve went to the cash register, got a dime, and put
it on the bar. Words were exchanged. Hoerster went over the
bar and smacked Steve. A brief tussle ensued. Steve retrieved
his .38 S&W 5 shot revolver and shot 3 times. The third shot
hit Hoerster in the heart and killed him. Steve served 5 years
of a 10 year sentence for voluntary manslaughter.
With thanks and appreciation to ICollector, auctioneers for the
photo. I believe the revolver and holster sold at auction just a
bit North of $1,900.
I thought you might have fun identifying the holster and the
revolver.
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Last edited by crazyphil; 09-28-2021 at 06:01 AM.
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09-28-2021, 06:59 AM
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Got a dime sentence over something silly...
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09-28-2021, 07:11 AM
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Reminds me of a country song
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09-28-2021, 07:46 AM
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Looks like a three or four inch pre 36, nice holster too.
It would be hard to dance to that tune.
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09-28-2021, 09:30 AM
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I was thinking Model 60 for the revolver, but that's just a guess. The
holster looks like the same style as this one, made by Brauer Brothers.
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09-28-2021, 09:36 AM
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09-28-2021, 09:48 AM
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What song was playing?
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09-28-2021, 09:51 AM
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03hemi - I don't know what song was playing, but "It don't hurt anymore"
would have been appropriate.
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09-28-2021, 10:01 AM
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He must have been fun at BBQ's.
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09-28-2021, 01:22 PM
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This Viking crossdraw is a likely suspect?
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09-28-2021, 06:02 PM
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Read only fatal shot was fired at victims front, other 2 missed. Sounds as if “ victim” was violent. Another case of, “ nothing good happens after midnight”….
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09-28-2021, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyman50
Read only fatal shot was fired at victims front, other 2 missed. Sounds as if “ victim” was violent. Another case of, “ nothing good happens after midnight”….
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Looks like all three shots fired hit their mark and went clean through him:
Quote:
Logan shot Hoerster three times, twice from the front and once in the back. Hoerster fell to the floor under the bar gate near the east end of the bar. The three bullets were subsequently recovered, one imbedded in the north wall of the bar and the two that had penetrated through the east wall of the bar. Only one of the bullets caused a fatal wound and the evidence indicated it was the last shot fired and that it hit the heart of the deceased from the front.
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158 LRN? That would have been the common ammo for that time period.
Last edited by eb07; 09-28-2021 at 06:26 PM.
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09-28-2021, 06:38 PM
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Interesting that they convicted him. But inside a bar, shot fired when not actually fighting, be interring to know if there was any powder burn on victim. Conflicting testimony as in all the witnesses were probably drunk and friends of one party or the other. Would not be surprised if bartender was fairly loaded too. Jury believed prosecutor's side of the story
Last edited by steelslaver; 09-28-2021 at 06:40 PM.
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09-28-2021, 06:44 PM
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Nickel 36 or 37? The way the cylinder flutes lineup it looks more like a 32 S&W long
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09-28-2021, 06:47 PM
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The Model 60 started in 1965, and few if any had 3" barrels before 1972. The finish was matte, not shiny. So, not a Model 60.
Model 36 was offered in Nickel in additional to the standard Blue, and 3" barrels were plentiful in either finish. The gun has a flat latch, which also suggests Model 36.
So, most likely, Model 36-1 square butt, in nickel, made around 1967 (before the diamond center grips went bye-bye in '68).
Or, someone traveled back in a time machine, with a flitzed Model 60 with a pinned barrel and a square butt. I suppose it could happen,
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09-28-2021, 07:11 PM
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Guess I read it wrong, sorry. Was wondering about powder burns too. Booze and guns do not mix.
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09-28-2021, 07:38 PM
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Another factor working against the Bartender is bartender went to retrieve the gun. I also wonder about size of both men and any previous history. The actual trial evidence and testimony would go farther to understanding than the State Supreme Court decision.
But this part is interesting.
Defendant Logan was not arrested until after the coroner's inquest some four days later. On July 29, 1968, the county attorney applied to the district court for leave to file an information direct against Logan.
and this
(4) Did the district court commit error in disallowing evidence of the deceased's character and reputation for turbulence and violence?
I wonder just what information came out that they decided to arrest and file.
Last edited by steelslaver; 09-28-2021 at 07:44 PM.
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09-28-2021, 08:07 PM
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In 1968, 10 cents would no longer buy you a cup of coffee in a restaurant after midnight, but it could still cost you 10 years in jail... sheesh!
All three bullets including the fatal shot passed through the victim. One was found embedded in a wall, and two passed through a wall. So much for a .38 J-frame not having much power.
The defendant fired three shots (of which only the third one was fatal). Multiple shots allowed the prosecution to argue that the shooting "... was unjustifiable as involving excessive force." (quote from article linked above).
50 years later, a cup of coffee costs about $2. A typical self-defense gun is made of black plastic and holds a double stack of 9mm. Accounting for inflation, I can only assume that a first degree murder conviction would be a slam dunk today (!)
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09-28-2021, 08:50 PM
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No first degree murder convictions are rare here.
In Montana, there are five types of criminal homicide: deliberate homicide, mitigated deliberate homicide, negligent homicide, aiding or soliciting suicide, and vehicular homicide while under the influence. Deliberate homicide (referred to as first-degree murder in some other states) is the most harshly punished type of homicide in Montana.
First-degree murder generally encompasses premeditated intentional killings that are done with malice aforethought. In Montana, deliberate homicide criminalizes premeditated intentional killings (of another human being or of a fetus) and felony murder. This article outlines Montana's deliberate homicide law.
Code Section
Montana Code section 45-5-102: Deliberate Homicide
What's Prohibited?
Purposely or knowingly causing the death of another human being
Purposely or knowingly causing the death of a fetus of another with knowledge that the woman is pregnant, or
Committing, attempting to commit, or being legally accountable for the attempt or commission of robbery, sexual intercourse without consent, arson, burglary, kidnapping, aggravated kidnapping, felonious escape, assault with a weapon, aggravated assault, or any other forcible felony and in the course of the felony or flight thereafter, the person or any person legally accountable for the crime causes the death of another human being
Penalties
Punishable by death, unless the offender is less than 18 years old at the time that the offense was committed, by life imprisonment, or by imprisonment for a term of between 10 and 100 years, except as provided in section 46-18-219 and section 46-18-222.
Felony Murder
As outlined in the table above, Montana's deliberate homicide law criminalizes felony murder. The felony murder rule covers killings in which someone dies during, or shortly after, the commission of one of the inherently dangerous felonies listed in the statute (see chart above for the list of applicable felonies). Most murder convictions require that the killing be done purposefully or knowingly, however, under the felony murder rule there's no requirement that the offender intended to cause the death.
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Mitigated Deliberate Homicide
When an unlawful killing that would ordinarily constitute deliberate homicide in Montana is committed under the influence of extreme mental or emotional stress, for which there is a reasonable explanation, then the killing is classified as the lesser crime of mitigated deliberate homicide. The reasonableness of the explanation or excuse is determined from the point of view of a reasonable person in the offender's situation. For example, if a wife comes home and kills her husband after finding him in bed with his mistress, the killing will likely qualify as mitigated deliberate homicide if the court finds that the woman acted under the reasonable influence of extreme mental or emotional stress.
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09-28-2021, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteC
In 1968, 10 cents would no longer buy you a cup of coffee in a restaurant after midnight, but it could still cost you 10 years in jail... sheesh!
All three bullets including the fatal shot passed through the victim. One was found embedded in a wall, and two passed through a wall. So much for a .38 J-frame not having much power.
The defendant fired three shots (of which only the third one was fatal). Multiple shots allowed the prosecution to argue that the shooting "... was unjustifiable as involving excessive force." (quote from article linked above).
50 years later, a cup of coffee costs about $2. A typical self-defense gun is made of black plastic and holds a double stack of 9mm. Accounting for inflation, I can only assume that a first degree murder conviction would be a slam dunk today (!)
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No first degree murder convictions are rare here. I don't see where this shooting really checked any of the boxes needed for a 1st degree Criminal Homicide. Even Deliberate Homicide would be a real stretch because it happened during a fight.
In Montana, there are five types of criminal homicide: deliberate homicide, mitigated deliberate homicide, negligent homicide, aiding or soliciting suicide, and vehicular homicide while under the influence. Deliberate homicide (referred to as first-degree murder in some other states) is the most harshly punished type of homicide in Montana.
First-degree murder generally encompasses premeditated intentional killings that are done with malice aforethought. In Montana, deliberate homicide criminalizes premeditated intentional killings (of another human being or of a fetus) and felony murder. This article outlines Montana's deliberate homicide law.
Code Section
Montana Code section 45-5-102: Deliberate Homicide
Purposely or knowingly causing the death of another human being
Purposely or knowingly causing the death of a fetus of another with knowledge that the woman is pregnant, or
Committing, attempting to commit, or being legally accountable for the attempt or commission of robbery, sexual intercourse without consent, arson, burglary, kidnapping, aggravated kidnapping, felonious escape, assault with a weapon, aggravated assault, or any other forcible felony and in the course of the felony or flight thereafter, the person or any person legally accountable for the crime causes the death of another human being
Penalties
Punishable by death, unless the offender is less than 18 years old at the time that the offense was committed, by life imprisonment, or by imprisonment for a term of between 10 and 100 years, except as provided in section 46-18-219 and section 46-18-222.
Felony Murder
As outlined in the table above, Montana's deliberate homicide law criminalizes felony murder. The felony murder rule covers killings in which someone dies during, or shortly after, the commission of one of the inherently dangerous felonies listed in the statute (see chart above for the list of applicable felonies). Most murder convictions require that the killing be done purposefully or knowingly, however, under the felony murder rule there's no requirement that the offender intended to cause the death.
Mitigated Deliberate Homicide
When an unlawful killing that would ordinarily constitute deliberate homicide in Montana is committed under the influence of extreme mental or emotional stress, for which there is a reasonable explanation, then the killing is classified as the lesser crime of mitigated deliberate homicide. The reasonableness of the explanation or excuse is determined from the point of view of a reasonable person in the offender's situation. For example, if a wife comes home and kills her husband after finding him in bed with his mistress, the killing will likely qualify as mitigated deliberate homicide if the court finds that the woman acted under the reasonable influence of extreme mental or emotional stress.
Now if the deceased's family could have shown it was actually a duel the could have got a settlement and support. Dueling is frowned on in Montana.
Montana Code Annotated 2019
TITLE 27. CIVIL LIABILITY, REMEDIES, AND LIMITATIONS
CHAPTER 1. AVAILABILITY OF REMEDIES -- LIABILITY
Part 2. Damages
Damages For Injuries Or Death Inflicted In Duel
27-1-223. Damages for injuries or death inflicted in duel. If a person slays or permanently disables another person in a duel in this state, the person shall provide for the maintenance of the spouse and minor children of the person slain or permanently disabled in a manner and at a cost, either by aggregate compensation in damages to each or by a monthly, quarterly, or annual allowance, that is determined by the court and the party is liable for and shall pay all debts of the person slain or permanently disabled.
Last edited by steelslaver; 09-28-2021 at 09:22 PM.
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09-29-2021, 07:38 AM
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All I’ll say is the attorneys I used to work with would have got him off…….
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09-29-2021, 08:18 AM
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I love russet brown basket weave holsters! That was my initial thought to this fine post.
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09-29-2021, 08:30 AM
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Thank you CQB27. I'm with you. One of my favorite holsters is this
brown model 34 by Lawrence.
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09-29-2021, 12:49 PM
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Wonder how the auction house ended up with this set up anyway? Was it released back to him after serving his time?
Randy
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09-29-2021, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
I thought you might have fun identifying the holster and the
revolver.
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I’ll make an educated guess…
The gun is a 3” nickel Chiefs Special/Model 36 with a standard weight barrel.
The flat head tensioning screw on the holster makes me think it’s a Brauer Bros Spring Clip model, possibly their “Moose Brand”. It could also be a Bucheimer Clark, but I'm sticking with Brauer. Hunter and Viking made an almost identical version, but theirs didn’t have the flathead screw on the front.
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Last edited by s&wchad; 09-29-2021 at 01:29 PM.
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Dime in the jukebox.
I thought Joan Jett put a dime in the jukebox.
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09-29-2021, 01:32 PM
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growr - Steve Logan passed away in 1995 and his wife Gracie passed away
in 2003. The revolver still had the evidence tag on it, so I wonder if the
County put it up for auction?
S&W Chad - You are correct, my Viking does have a round head screw
and my Brauer Bros. has the flat head. I also have a Hunter spring
tension style and it has a round head screw. Photo below.
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09-29-2021, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
This Viking crossdraw is a likely suspect?
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That was my first thought, Phil. But, s&wchad is probably "righter" than me.
Larry
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09-30-2021, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
growr - Steve Logan passed away in 1995 and his wife Gracie passed away
in 2003. The revolver still had the evidence tag on it, so I wonder if the
County put it up for auction?
S&W Chad - You are correct, my Viking does have a round head screw
and my Brauer Bros. has the flat head. I also have a Hunter spring
tension style and it has a round head screw. Photo below.
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Ok, so today my new love is floral cut holsters made for 1911s, lol! What a BEAUT Mr. Phil!
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