Hoyt cross draw?

ColbyBruce · #1 07-27-2022, 02:27 PM

Does anyone know what model revolver this Hoyt cross draw was made for? Thanks.

Kansasgunner · #2 07-27-2022, 03:40 PM

My guess is that originally it was for a 6” .38 revolver, per the stamps. But the holster looks like it was cut off and restitched for a 4” barrel.

rednichols · #3 07-27-2022, 06:29 PM

As it would've been originally made:

el monte (26).jpg

Yes in those days '38' meant K frame and equivalents, '44' and '45' meant N frame and equivalents, '32' meant Police Positives etc. Don't be surprised to find that 5-1/2" .45 doesn't mean the SA on Hoyts and Clarks; it means such is for an N frame in 45LC with that barrel length.

In 1934 LAPD's chief mandated that all their pistols w/b .38s only, frame sizes not specified.

The spring of a Hoyt allows the end of the holster to be cut off, because unlike other spring holsters the bend in the spring is not at the muzzle end but up back of the trigger guard.

crazyphil · #4 07-28-2022, 10:49 AM

I owned this Hoyt crossdraw in the past, but sold it. On the left.
My Model 19 with 4" barrel fit perfectly
Hunter made one very much like the Hoyt. 2nd on the left.

ColbyBruce · #5 07-28-2022, 12:40 PM

Thank you all. I realized it had been shortened, but thought it might of fit a 4” J frame. I left it in the store, unwittingly to waste $10.00 on it.

rednichols · #6 07-28-2022, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyphil

I owned this Hoyt crossdraw in the past, but sold it. On the left.
My Model 19 with 4" barrel fit perfectly
Hunter made one very much like the Hoyt. 2nd on the left.

Oh my, Phil, the Hunter is a copy of the Clark Combat and is very unlike the Hoyt. Different springs, different insertion points, no cylinder recesses in the Clark/Hunter style. 1938 Clark:

1938 stamp (2).jpg

ColbyBruce · #7 07-28-2022, 05:08 PM

rednichols, did you design the Bianchi #6; the rough side out IWB holster?

rednichols · #8 07-28-2022, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColbyBruce

rednichols, did you design the Bianchi #6; the rough side out IWB holster?

Nope, all credit/blame goes to JB :-). The style with the clip was made by everyone beginning in the 1960s. Prior even his IWB looked like this and more costly to make, too, in 1963:

1963 protector (6)a.jpg

The ruffout IWB was invented by Heiser in the 1940s:

1948 (1).jpg

The true purpose of ruffout on an IWB is not for better grip inside the pants; that's a ridiculous notion spread by Bruce Nelson. It's purpose was to place the smooth side of the leather next to the pistol, made possible because the holster wouldn't be seen when in the pants. Ruffout was also used in rough duty holsters on gunbelts because it wouldn't show scratches from bushes etc while in the field. Unlined these had that same benefit of placing the smooth side next to the pistol. Andy Anderson:

1969 catalog (13).jpg

Then we started lining ALL holsters with ruffout chrome-tanned suede and leaving the smooth side out!

Screenshot (1451).jpg

no pat marks (11).jpg

Scharfschuetzer · #9 07-28-2022, 09:19 PM

I had no idea that Hoyte made cross draw holsters, even though I used Hoyt holsters and leather throughout my LE career. Odd that.

rednichols · #10 07-29-2022, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scharfschuetzer

I had no idea that Hoyte made cross draw holsters, even though I used Hoyt holsters and leather throughout my LE career. Odd that.

Originally the R.H. Hoyt patent was for a crossdraw that also c/b worn as a shoulder holster with a harness attached. So about 1935 in L.A.

el monte (20).jpg

el monte (22).jpg

And even a swivel belt holster that surely was worn on the right/strong side instead as the precursor to the Rogers/Safariland 070:

coupeville formerly el monte (1).jpg

turnerriver · #11 07-29-2022, 12:30 PM

Here are scans of a 1935 Hoyt catalog- note that one holster serves as a hip spring, shoulder and automobile steering post holster.
R.H. Hoyt also served as a sales agent for Clark holsters in the 1930’s.
Hoyt offered a very different and attractive floral carving pattern.

Regards,

wheelgun610 · #12 08-03-2022, 01:42 PM

Here's the patent drawing for the Hoyt design as filed on November 18, 1935 to the US Patent office. You'll also notice the patent was issued on February 22. 1938.

Mark

Hoyt cross draw?-hoyt-holster-patent-drawing-us2109232-jpg

Hoyt cross draw?-hoyt-holster-patent-drawing-us2109232-jpg

rednichols · #13 08-04-2022, 12:44 AM

Very good. Your post caused me to look at my full copy of the patent again, where I realize from the drawings that there are TWO springs in these things:

1935 US2109232 (1).jpg

That's OK, look at all the bits and bobs inside Clark's competing version of the same year:

1935 pachmayr as clark (3).jpg

Papa Lee · #14 02-24-2023, 01:49 PM

An interesting little R.H. Hoyt El Monte holster with his unique floral style tooling. Possibly a rifle bolt holster, but I am willing to consider other opinions of what this holster may have been made for. Your thoughts?

rednichols · #15 02-24-2023, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Lee

An interesting little R.H. Hoyt El Monte holster with his unique floral style tooling. Possibly a rifle bolt holster, but I am willing to consider other opinions of what this holster may have been made for. Your thoughts?

Heiser offered a very similarly shaped scabbard, but with a flap, for riflescopes in its 1946 catalog while the company was under ownership by The DDG 1945-1950.

Hoyt moved lots and was in El Monte (I see the same city that you do, faintly) 1940-1950.

wheelgun610 · #16 02-25-2023, 01:00 PM

Are there any signs of use on the inside Lee? I'm having a hard time trying to imagine a situation where one would carry a rifle bolt on a belt. And at barely six inches in length, it's too short for any rifle scope I know of. I don't even have a good guess, but it's a nice looking piece.

Mark

turnerriver · #17 02-25-2023, 04:33 PM

A folding knife like an Opinel ? Whatever it fits I like it.
Regards,

Papa Lee · #18 02-25-2023, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelgun610

Are there any signs of use on the inside Lee? I'm having a hard time trying to imagine a situation where one would carry a rifle bolt on a belt. And at barely six inches in length, it's too short for any rifle scope I know of. I don't even have a good guess, but it's a nice looking piece.

Mark

No signs of use. Appreciate the input.

Papa Lee · #19 06-15-2023, 10:51 AM

An "R.H. HOYT MAKER LOS ANGELES" .38 Special Cartridge drop with the distinctive Hoyt designed carving.. Probably for a shoulder holster rig although it could be used on the belt without the harness attached.
"PAT. PENDING." No patent found for this item.

rednichols · #20 06-15-2023, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papa Lee

An "R.H. HOYT MAKER LOS ANGELES" .38 Special Cartridge drop with the distinctive Hoyt designed carving.. Probably for a shoulder holster rig although it could be used on the belt without the harness attached.
"PAT. PENDING." No patent found for this item.

Hoyt had two patents, both for shoulder holsters, and he marked everything associated with them 'pat pend'. His most famous product, the forward draw belt holster, is marked with his shoulder holster patent though the forward draw is not described in it, nor do the claims apply to it. These men were saddlers and didn't know much about patent law then :-). So I'm saying the 'pat pend' is in regard to his patent for a shoulder holster, and that puts the item 1935 or so.