I owned a Beltman bullhide gun belt for years. Great belt, but it mysteriously shrank over that time to where it no longer fits. Funny how that happens.

Anyway, I’ve been using a Kore tactical click belt and while impressive, it doesn’t/can’t seem to break in and is not that comfortable. Nothing like a leather belt that’s taken a “set” and conformed to the body.

I’m in the market for a hell-for-stout leather gun belt and am looking for suggestions on the toughest and best made. I carry some heavy handguns OWB so need a very sturdy belt.

Thanks for the help!

I've said all my lengthy career: if someone needs a stout trousers belt for their holstered pistol, then instead he/she needs to buy a better holster. A well-designed holster does not rely on the belt to keep the pistol upright. E.g., most likely the holster is carrying the pistol too high above the belt. Many name brands do it no better than the others because they're still making the designs of the '70s when we all over-relied on the wide hippie belts of the time.

How about a look at the holster/pistol you're wanting to support better?

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Good advice above. Try Hanks belts. Their everyday model is good. Very sturdy.

Shop Hanks Belts

I'm partial to the Crossbreed brand....it's a laminated belt.

I bought 3 Versacarry belts this summer. 2-ply, well made, and the price is right, especially if you hit a sale. The last few weeks I've been carrying a PC 629 2-5/8 in a Kramer belt scabbard and you wouldn't even know its there.

I'm familiar with the shrinking belt phenomenon also, I had to replace my competition belt last year!

Beltman is still in business with new ownership and location. From what I've heard no difference in the quality of their belts.

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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

Just ordered one. Never had one before but this one is a very high quality product. Ordered on the 22nd and received on the 25th. A pleasant transaction.

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The best I can with what I got

Red, don't you think that some holsters are deliberately designed to carry the gun high above the belt, the intention being concealment? E.g., the Galco Combat Master or various other modern makers' pancakes. For such holsters, which are popular nowadays due to the prevalence of legal concealed carry, it seems to me a heavy, thick belt, fairly rigid, is helpful in comfortably stabilizing the gun, and keeping it tucked in close under the ribs.

Re leather belt recommendations: I have Mitch Rosen, Kramer and Beltman 1.5" belts. They are all good, with perhaps the edge going to Kramer, but the Beltman is lower priced and far, far faster delivery than the other two.

Check out the Mitch Rosen 'value line' models.

1.5" thick and sturdy for around $80. They ship pretty quick because they are pre-made.

Nothing fancy, like his non-value line items but a great sturdy belt.

Darn it, I've been found out! I did NOT know about that functionality. Back to 70s holster school for me ;-)

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Red, much respect for your extensive knowledge of holstory, shared so freely to our benefit, and for your considerate response to my (persnickety) post.

I use the Aker Concealed Carry belt. Polymer lined, doesn't allow the holster to flop around. But, very comfortable. Around $81.

KAC

My first choice is Rick Garcia and he will do horse or cow hide. Second choice is Tucker but they have Looong delivery dates as of lately.

My favorites in rank order!

Wright Leather Works:
Old World Gun Belt Made in the USA - Wright Leather Works(R) LLC

CrossBreed:
CrossBreed(R) Holsters Classic Gun Belt

Simply Rugged:
Real Man's Gun Belt - Single Layer of Leather

You're the expert holster designer, and I'm not, I'm just a peon, but I can't agree with this. For over 40 years I've bought nothing but the best holsters from Sparks, Kramer, Rosen, and Null. They offer gun belts from 1 1/4" up to 1 3/4" and some places 2". Even the best newer holsters with a low carry axis don't carry very well with common clothing store belts.
So their belts are a waste of money and they are just trying to make an extra sale from the buyer? Tell me, please.
Every major holster maker says you need a dedicated gun belt. Ken Null was the first holster maker to reveal this to me as a neophyte when he was still in PA. decades ago. At first, I didn't take his advice, but over time I learned he was right. A K Mart belt affixed to the best holster still carries lousy, shifts around and becomes uncomfortable over the course of a day of carrying (unless the user is just strapping it on for a few minutes to get coffee and a doughnut at the 7/11 and removing his rig when he gets home). I never did buy the Null belt at $90 (at that time). I thought it was too expensive. Now I buy Kramer gun belts that cost $155 and although I wish they cost less, they are far better than a single layer belt I can get at Macy's or wherever.

I use the excellent Tony Kenealy designed Sparks made VM2 IWB holsters for large semi autos and revolvers, the Kramer IWB nos. 2 and 3 for small revolvers and small semi autos, Kramer belt scabbards for OTB holsters and the old Bruce Nelson designed Summer Specials (only occasionally now). Except for
the summer special, these are not ancient designs, and none of these are high axis designs like the Galco Silhouette or the Buchheimer semi shoulder holster. I don't think high axis holsters are very popular any more, at any rate.

Any era holster benefits from a good gun belt

The O.P. states he carries heavy handguns. He needs a good gun belt even if he has the best modern designed holster, regardless of the belt width.
You can get away with a ****** single layer belt if you are carrying a lightweight small gun, not a gun weighing approx. 32 oz. or more and of large size.

I prefer the Kramer horse hide 1 1/2" belts over other brands. I have several but even the first one I bought in the early 90s is still solid.

For me, the Sparks belt in cow hide is a disappointment. I also have 2 of them. The oldest one, about the age of my first
Kramer, is as floppy as a wet noodle. Sparks will tell you the arc they cut
their belt to, mimics a comfortable broken in regular belt. This also means it's kind of already pre-worn. They also just don't measure well compared to a straight cut belt you can break in yourself over time.
I have found that whatever my waist size is, the Sparks belt will require about a 2" longer belt than what I normally need, even knowing how to correctly measure the belt, whether using for IWB or OWB. Their shaped belt is just a gimmick to me. The Sparks holsters themselves are very good.

I carry every day for hours at a time, for what it's worth.

Hands down the absolute best gun belt that I've discovered is the Gingerich western line. Best looking too. Available at most any western wear store.

Under $50 and American made, 3/16" thick solid leather. They outshine every other belt I've ever worn. Very high quality, comfortable leather.

I carry some heavy iron too. Everyday, everywhere.

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Death? Smile back...

Murray Custom Leather

Welcome to Murray Custom Leather

© Copyright MurrayCustomLeather.com

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Come and take it!!

Look, I'm actually trying to teach something here. There's the old joke about the kid encountered banging a post on the ground. "Why are you banging the post on the ground?", he's asked. "To keep lions away".

"But there are no lions here!".

"See, It works!".

Stiff wide gunbelts are promoted by people who don't know any better, because the belts appeared in the '70s and they haven't learned a darned thing since the '70s. They even make the same holsters. So Tony at Sparks and I nearly came to blows over this one, because he only learned what Milt knew; and Milt only knew what he'd copied from Andy; and Andy only knew what he'd learned in the Fifties!!. But I've been part of the making of tens of millions of holsters and never stopped learning.

Great example: the Askins Avenger of the '70s. JB and I created this one and JB insisted on making it very high riding. But to keep it from tipping outward, a heavy belt had to be used. So the myth of 'get a good gunbelt' appeared. My final version of an Avenger? Not topheavy in the slightest, use any belt you like, guaranteed to fit right out of the box.

Since that time I've created many, many, many new models of holsters for many, many more companies than Bianchi. Because I can't make myself copy. Which then drives innovation. And during that process I learned new things, like how to position the holstered pistol 'just right' vertically so that a wide belt is not needed. I literally used a WalMart belt I bought for the purpose. I call it 'floating the pistol' and the Sparks people, on another forum, were furious. We ended up in court!

All that's needed from a waistbelt is (1) a holster with an ideal center of gravity design, (2) a belt tunnel the same width as the belt's width, and (3) stiffness ACROSS the width of the belt only. Thickness is irrelevant, stitching only prevents stretching. You will find that a curved belt is best on men and women; mine was triple curved, like a snake. Wear one every day.

Yes, I know all these gunleather makers personally, and I'm saying that there's a LOT they don't know about their trade. Their business? Well, that they do know.

I no longer build becasue I declined to be a part of the striker-fired pistol fiasco; none of these makers declined that business yet the likes of Safariland, who once used to be a premier maker, compounded the problem when they created their lightbearing holsters. These people DO know their BUSINESS, but they aren't concerned with yours.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

I appreciate your kind and reasoned reply.
I'm not sure I agree with ignoring belt design when pairing with a holster, but I wanted your take on it.
Thanks,
Mike

I got a belt from TT Gunleather a couple years ago when I ordered a holster. I wear it nearly every day and it still looks nearly new. Not the cheapest but not the most expensive either.

FWIW that first holster I ordered from TT Gunleather was for a 3” Model 66. Whatever OWB holster I had bought for that gun rode too high and the butt always felt like it was tipping out, no matter what belt I wore or how tight it was. Drove me crazy. That revolver only rides about 1/2” lower in the TTGL holster, but that 1/2” makes all the difference in the world.

Thanks for that. I haven't ignored belt design, I've upended it. I'm saying that everyone ELSE has ignored belt design by saying 'get a wide stiff belt' so their holsters don't tip your pistol out on the ground!

Here's one that needs such a belt.

Then one that does not.

The difference is that the carry angle, and the carry height, are poor on the Galco (the uppermost brown one); and your gauge for that is the cylinder being above the waistbelt line.

The black one, by Hume, is ideal as to carry angle and carry height. Your gauge is the same: cylinder now is coplanar with the width of the belt.

If one were to take the Galco and use an 8-3/8" barrel on the revolver, you'd like it auite a lot, because a well designed holster lays the pistol verticallly along the body to support the pistol above and below. It is not HANGING from the belt.

With the Hume one can use any barrel length; it cannot be top heavy by virtue of its design. Real gunleather makers don't know this! And instead are copying old designs.

Doesn't help that we're all left to buy online now; and virtually no maker shows the backside of their holsters so that you can see how the holster carries your holster on the belt. Nor do they speak much about the tunnel width on their holsters.

Great thing about innovation: when one doesn't copy, one comes up with a better way. My now-discontinued version of the Avenger (the final image) floats the pistol around your waistbelt of any design because it is exactly the right height and angle. Use of horsehide prevents the leather becoming soft and allowing the holster to sag away from the body.

Not a thread hijack: the right holster obviates 'get a good gunbelt' which, if you look at all the responses, are by brand; which makes them 'lodge pins": get this brand and you will 'belong'. Vs "find a belt with the following features". Folks do the same with holsters: but not all models of holsters from the same maker are excellent (Galco is good example) because some are **** and some are great. Different designers within the company, in different eras.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

My discontinued Avenger holster image didn't appear in my prior post, my error I'm sure.

Also, here's my final take on 'gunbelts' (trousers belts used for carrying pistols).

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

You've nailed it! It's not the belts, it's the holsters. If I were in USA I would find a way to offer personal fitments to real gunmen, as did Paris Theodore in his time. Impossible where I am (coppers here aren't even allowed to carry their pistols when they are off duty!). That would then leave only the Australian Federal Police and all LEO agencies are in the pocket of Safariland here; and they don't like me so would interfere (as they have in the past in USA).

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

But, if you wanted to carry your pistola, for maximum concealment, in a very high ride holster such as this:



Then a thick, very stiff, gunbelt would make it possible, even comfortable, well tucked into the body, and secure.

A regular dress belt, it would flop right on over.

Ya know, I think we are saying the same thing, Red. I'm just trying to make room for high ride concealment holsters for those among us who carry, don't like IWB, but want to conceal.

The other thing is, as we all know, what works with holsters is a very individual thing. One guy's great holster for his model pistol is another guy's disaster for his. Which is why most of us fool around with a variety of holsters over time to find those that work for us.

You're only proving my point :-). If your carry setup needs 'a good gunbelt' then the holster is substandard; in this case, top heavy. Take it from me, I designed it and Galco copied it, line for line! It's the Bianchi "Black Widow".

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Interesting that you designed the holster, Red. When you designed it, what were you hoping to achieve?

I have a Kore and love it. I would say that if you want leather, go to a leather shop and have them make you one using extra thick leather.

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otis

It was an assignment, designed to help counter the Baker patent given that Hume was making the slide holster prior to that patent.

Take a look at the next post after mine. Like trying to teach used bricks. I'll leave this thread for now, the subject will come up again on this or another forum sooner or later; usually followed by 'I carry AIWB and I'm not dead yet, you should try it too". On one forum there was a member who LOOKED for my new posts about the dangers of true appendix carry, so he/she could argue its merits! Since then I decided to let God sort it out.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

Thanks for the response, Red. I'll leave it alone going forward. It's all good.

(I really do appreciate your knowledgeable posts, as I am sure all of us here with an interest in holstory do, and do not want to chase you off with nitpickin' differences of opinion.)

Hank’s Belts

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2B1ASK1

Interesting,
Over the last half century of carrying a sidearm.
Both revolvers and auto pistols...I prefer N frame Smiths and 1911s.

I have found that the balance of the holster on the belt is of far more concern than the belt design itself...
Although, a belt should fit the holster slots and the waist line.

As far as belt materials goes, I much prefer a pant belt split to desired
thickness and width from stirrup leather blanks.

Regardless, each must find the combination that fits their personal needs.

///

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I lost weight.
I find that the fit of my belt matters more than Its width or thickness.
And not worrying about how the holster feels if it is top heavy.
Kind Regards!
BrianD

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

Thanks, gang.

I went with a Hanks. Will report back when it arrives.

I think the importance of tunnel width and belt width can not be overstated. Any room for movement will start the flopping process

I’ve ad good luck with the “$30 dollar gun belt” company. Their “standard” belt works very well

Hanks Belts

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

I have been wearing the same Aker fancy stitch 1.75" belt for 20-odd years. Still perfect.

Let me add to this thread, a poorly known effect of 'thick, stiff gunbelts' is a syndrome called "policemans hip" that the docs call 'meralgia paraesthetica. I recently devoted a post on my blog to it because I had been assisting an FOH with his difficulties in holstering a very good brand of holster -- but getting intolerable pain and numbness while wearing it. The solution for him was to switch to either crossdraw, or foward-of-hip carry; both of which shift the hard, holtered pistol off the nerve in question.

Policeman's hip originally was caused by the Sam Browne belts of old, cinched up tightly and pressing hard on the lateral femoral cutaneous nerve that runs from inside the top of the pelvis, through the pelvis and out to the thigh, where it runs down the thigh. We experience tingling down the leg, and when we've got it bad, as pain.

Big problem since the '70s when forward draw holsters pulled LEO uniform holsters up high where concealment holsters are carried, then reinforced with hard-tempered spring steel shanks. Safariland could only counter this by dropping their LEO holsters down on to the thigh, suspended from the waistbelt by a strap. And on their paddle holsters, by making the paddle from soft, flexible polymers.

If any of you all have experienced unpleasant pain ranges while carrying concealed, it's your belt! Gunbels are not shaped like your body, they are straight and clamp right over that nerve. A curved belt, formerly known as a ladies' curve, will help. Keeping the belt soft, such as a sueded lined trousers belt will be (suede/splits has no stiffness of its own but is fully half of the belt's thickness). The triple curved belt I used to make obviated the problem completely but would take a clever maker to mass produce it cost-effectively vs straight belts.

And I don't know any clever makers who are up to the task.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

40+ years of carry, I have curved and straight belts.
I am not impressed with curved belts. For me, they don't work any better than a straight belt.
An extra curve probably won't change things for me.

As another poster said, belts and holsters are also dependent on the wearer's build and preferrences. I agree with this. Your triple curved belt may or may not
be satisfactory for all users despite it's uniqueness.
Kind of like how picky women are with their bras....

Spoken like a man who has never had nerve pain down the right leg. All good, this is just information that's worth what folks have paid for it, so nothing 😀

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

I carry a Wilson Combat EDCX9, all day, every day........I've wore a lot of the belts mentioned in this thread.........and all are good belts.........

I use a Hanks belt now, and it is the best one I have used so far.........

Steel Core Gun Belt-Heavy Reinforced CCW Belt-Free Shipping - Hanks Belts

Thanks, Marine Vet. I’m excited to get mine.

That's a length of pallet strapping down the center of the two layers of leather. And 20 ounces thick leather?! And stitched. You can only hope the layers aren't glued together, too (which would cost the makers lots more in labor) which would make the assembly even stiffer. As Cooper used to say, 'the solution to a non-existent problem'.

The last from me on this, got all too ridiculous.

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Red Nichols The Holstorian

I was reflecting that over time a leather belt conforms to the body, an initially straight belt becomes curved.

This is my oldest gunbelt, 17 years now, I think. It is lying flat on the floor in the pic. Mitch Rosen 1.5" width:



When I was still working, I would wear it on the weekends, and for a number of years, after retiring in 2012, I wore it full time.

At this point it is quite soft, no longer stiff, but it still works fine for snubbies. I like a newer, stiffer belt for larger handguns, and use my Beltman, newer Rosen, and Kramer for those. These are still straighter than the Rosen above.

I read this thread to learn, and did get some principles of what works / why from the posts. Thanks to all. I'm still not perfectly clear on what constitutes a 'modern' design though Red. Looked at Holstory and it didn't jump out at me there either. CG of the carried pistol relative to the belt makes perfect sense. As you say, sales mostly across the 'net lately, and sketchy images that are often not the exact make/model you're buying for make it a crapshoot to buy. I'm getting the impression no maker grok's the principles and applies to every holster made regardless of model of pistol. So, how can a man reliably buy a well-designed holster these days? Most of us have boxes full of fails we've tried and one or two where the stars aligned and they work...well enough to keep using.

Look at Thirty Dollar Gunbelts. Their basic belt is 15 ounce (1/4" thick) steerhide 1 1/2" wide and costs just $35. Very comparable to other makers belts that they charge $80 or more for. They also have steel-lined belts that carry heavy guns very well and they are just about $12 more than the un-lined belts. Most makers charge well over $100 for steel-lined belts, if they even offer them!


30 Dollar Gun Belt | High Caliber Gun Belts. Period. – Thirty Dollar Gun Belt


I have bought several of their belts over the past 30 years and every one is still quite serviceable. I have been very pleased with their products. I do have one off their steel-lined belts and am ready to buy a second because I have lost quite a bit of weight and now wear 38" waist trousers instead of the 42" I did when I bought the one I have.

Fwiw, I have thick leather only, leather with steel insert and leather with kydex/polymer insert belts.

The kydex/polymers insert belts are the best and provide the greatest stability for a gun and holster.

The steel insert belts are second best but do not resist rolling quite as well.

Thick leather only are a distant third.

Vedder Holsters offers a nice looking polymer lined belt in black or dark brown that works very well. On sale now at $55.99, $79.99 is the regular price.

Xcexcess, as a member pointed out in an earlier post, if you need the holster and gun to ride high, the tighter the belt slots and the more (stiff) leather on both sides of the belt the better it will handle a top heavy situation. Add a kydex/polymer insert leather belt and it can work.

I only have one successful high ride holster and it’s a Kramer. I’m sure other excellent holster makers offer good high ride holster though.

As Red pointed out, the lower the center gravity of the gun and holster the less twisting force on the belt. But even with a high belt loop and a low gun a steel insert or, better, kydex/polymer insert belt will resist sag.

Interesting topic to think about, and I've certainly never thought about it before.
It is certainly essential to keep the holster/pistol tipping axis neutral or slightly positive with respect to the center of gravity,
at that point the belt just needs to be the correct size compared to the holster loops, so any belt would be enough.
More easily, a nice wide and rigid belt will ensure that everything runs smoothly and the weapon will close to the body, usually regardless of the quality of the holster, an almost always valid solution which, however, circumvents the problem.
Instead, a perfect holster will do its job much better and more simply without having to concentrate your attention and money on the belt too.
But being passionate about leather work, we are and will always be happy to also purchase a nice belt that matches the holster we use.
I apologize for my English, I use school terms and I don't know the abbreviations

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Marcello

I have a very old Ken Null that has been in service for probably close to 15-20 years. Both as a gunbelt as well as a “tool belt” at work. I recently re-dyed and glossed it, and it’s drying as we speak. I’m not sure if Ken is still making goods. (He was in Resaca, Ga years ago.). It’s a two p,y horsehide belt and it has paired great with his gun leather as well as AIWB kydex.