Coyote Thread Legal Question

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7shooter

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I've been reading the thread here in the lounge about the sad story of the dog killed by a coyote and it got me to thinking about the legal ramifications of discharging a firearm in an urban setting in defense of a pet. My daughter lives in a suburb of a large urban city where there have been a number of pets killed by coyotes recently and she is naturally concerned about the safety of her little Yorkie . Most state laws do not allow for the discharge of a firearm in city limits unless it is a situation that meets the usual deadly force law exceptions ( ie. to prevent death or serious bodily harm to an innocent person ). Since as much as we care for our pets they are not persons would this be an illegal discharge of a firearm ?
 
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Each municipality has its own ordinances. In our little town air rifles are OK but any firearm is not.

It's ironic that a little .410 in town is probably less of a danger for close up pigeon eradication than the air rifle firing one solid projectile.

If I had a coyote problem 50 yards from my urban home, I'd consider this company (if legal in my town) AirForce Airguns
 
I live in an urban setting and we have a problem with stray dogs. I've called animal control a number of times. The last time I had my two mini Dachshunds outside, on leashes, in my yard. A large white German Shephard came down the street, spotted us, and began trotting towards us. And he didn't have a friendly look about him! My two little ones are absolutely fearless, even though they were outweighed by 60 lbs. I literally had to drag them by their leashes into the front door, just as the Shephard was at the steps. Once inside, I grabbed my Mod 15 and headed for the door. The Shephard was heading back out to the street, and with houses all around, I didn't shoot, but called animal control instead. I talked to the officer who came, and asked if I had a right to shoot the dog if I was in fear of my life or my property (pets). I was told absolutely not. Even though I was protecting myself and my property, I would find myself in court. His reasoning was there are too many homes and people. FWIW, I carry my Mod 60 with me when I'm outside now. I'd rather find myself in court than in the hospital.
 
Even if it cost me $1,000 and 30 days in jail, I would still save Sadie's life.

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You've got to use some common sense (Mark Twain opined the problem with it is that its not common.) You can't always depend on the opinions of local police, who prefer to keep their jobs easy and not have idiots blasting way. In some states city law or ordinance will control. Other places state law applies.

Learn your own regions laws.

Where I live, its generally legal to shoot a viscous animal. I haven't read the law in a few years, but it includes dogs but isn't limited to them. Any attack or even snarling and approaching has been held (in the distant past) to be enough to trigger your conclusion they are viscous. It specifically does include dogs and CCW carriers. To be safe, if you feel you have a problem, eliminate one problem by purchasing a hunting license. Don't show it to anyone who asks, but having it might stop the fish and game guys from getting involved.

For me, even a raccoon snarling and bluffing a charge on my porch or deck is enough evidence for me to end the reign of terror. The first time it happened was right after I moved into this house. The Coon was dismantling my garbage bag. I opened the door to shoo him away, and he charged! I just closed the door. Thought about it as he went back to distributing my garbage all over. Thinking maybe it was a fluke or I was mistaken, I gingerly opened it again. Same result. So I went to the safe, selected a safe queen (a M43), loaded it up and gave him a 3rd chance. He made a bad mistake. Inside city limits or not, I demand the right to open my door and not get attacked.

Coyotes in my yard would result in the same thing. I'm the intolerant type.

How to catch them in the act? How to know where and when they're around? Easy. Set up a PIR array. PIR is passive infra red, as in motion detectors. If you're handy with stuff, alarm motions can tell you a lot. If you're not, just go to Lowes or Home Despot and buy one of the wireless security lights. Put new batteries in the sensors. Place them in likely places (in a direction with a relatively safe backstop). Then mount the light or cool little expansion strip that activates where you'll be sitting or sleeping. When it goes off, you can be pretty sure you've got a prowling critter.

Always be sure of your target. You'd hate to shoot a prowler, peeping tom, or burglar..... :( Maybe.
 
We don't have a yote problem around here, but once when I was a kid I was walking my girlfriends dog and a neighbors Doberman Pincher broke loose from his chain, he grabbed the dog by the neck and was going to kill him. I tried to break them up and he bit me on the shin, I still have his teeth marks on me. I ran back about 10 feet and ran toward him and kicked him in the ribs will all of my strength. It totally knocked the wind from him and he went whimpering home. I was too young to have a gun, but if I did I probably would have shot him after he bit me.
 
I shot a pit bull that came after me one time. I called the police myself and told them what happened. They sent two officers out, checked my CCH, ran me for warrents, and ran my gun to make sure it was not stolen. They told me there were a ton of complaints on the dog about him chasing people and almost biting a smaller child. They told me I did the neighborhood a favor and sent me on my way. If it can be done so safely I will shoot a coyote in my yard. If the police show up I will tell them the thing tried to bite me.I will take my chances in court if it goes that far to protect my family and pets. I have a boxer that could more than likely fend for himself. I don't want to see him get hurt or killed tho.


snakeman
 
Hi:
You did not hear this from Jimmy:
1. have a grave dug
2. shoot
3. bury
4. sounded like a "car backfire" Officer.
5. dead animal? looks like an suicide to me.
6. weapon in the house? yes my Grandfather's that I was cleaning when I heard the car backfire.
7. of course you may look around, right after I see the search warrent.
Jimmy's evil twin.
 
Here's the deal. State law says you can discharge a firearm to protect your life or the life of a pet. City ordinance says you can't discharge a firearm in the city. In this circumstance state law trumps a city ordinance.
 
I hope this isn't thread drift, with the "legal ramifications" question from the OP but I wonder if this might be an alternative to "discharging a firearm."

Precision air guns, air rifles, air pistols, ammunition and optics | GAMO USA

I used an air rifle for pests for the short time I lived "in town" in my life.

(And BarbC, if I had to I'd use a 44 mag in the church parking lot to protect that fine lookin' dog!)

GF
 
dlstewart01 said:
Here's the deal. State law says you can discharge a firearm to protect your life or the life of a pet. City ordinance says you can't discharge a firearm in the city. In this circumstance state law trumps a city ordinance.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that info. If I'm out with my girls, I WILL protect them and myself. If that means shooting a stray dog, or a "stray" human, so be it. Especially when I'm on my own property. The officer didn't seem too sympathetic, but he did make many rounds through the neighborhood and stopped by 3 times to give me an update. He never caught the dog, as far as I know.
 
I certainly agree with the posters who describe situations where there is a threat to a person. The question I have has to do with the situation where the pet is being harmed but people are in no danger. In rural areas I think it would be legal to defend your animals in most states but in a city I'm not so sure. Take an example where you are in your home or have retreated to your home and see your dog being attacked. You are no danger. Would the law give the same dispensation for shooting to defend an animal as it does for defending a person ? I am going to pose this question to one of our local prosecutors the next time I see him. It may turn out that there is a wide range of prosecutorial discretion in situations like this.
 
We have lots of coyotes in our part of the country. Sometimes at night, you can hear a pack (is that the right term for a bunch of coyotes?) yapping their heads off. It creeps one of my daughters out considerably (at a distance, almost sounds like a bunch of crying babies sometimes). Neither our medium size outdoor dog nor our neighbors' 2 larger dogs care to mix it up with the pack. Some nights, I can walk out on the front porch & shine a light across the field. The yapping instantly ceases. There is a bounty on coyotes, but I don't know anyone who actively hunts them.

Frankly, our water mocassins worry me a lot more. When our son was 4, he almost walked right on a baby mocassin.
 
7shooter said:
I certainly agree with the posters who describe situations where there is a threat to a person. The question I have has to do with the situation where the pet is being harmed but people are in no danger. In rural areas I think it would be legal to defend your animals in most states but in a city I'm not so sure. Take an example where you are in your home or have retreated to your home and see your dog being attacked. You are no danger. Would the law give the same dispensation for shooting to defend an animal as it does for defending a person ? I am going to pose this question to one of our local prosecutors the next time I see him. It may turn out that there is a wide range of prosecutorial discretion in situations like this.
Click to expand...

"Well officer, I was out walking my dog and the coyotes appeared to be ready to attack ME and MY dog, so I shot them."
 
In the eyes of PETA, it's a no win situation. :cool:

Seriously, I think it's the pet owners responsibility to ensure a safe environment for their pet. If you live in the city or suburbs, you are responsible to protect them from harm, weather it's other animals or traffic. If you fail to provide security, then you are at fault, IMO.
 
Because of lack of predators, bears and deer are running rampant in my neck of the woods. Yes, seems contradictory, but their populations are growing exponentially. Just a matter of time before a bear(s) appears in my 'hood; likely to be on the golf course.

Now I don't go about killing God's creatures but would surely bust a cap in a bear should one appear threatening. Yes, would likely face some kind of legal problems but will stand by my actions as I have always.

Be safe.

PS:

I know, you're wondering why the bears aren't controlling the deer. Don't know; perhaps they're like me and don't like venison. :)
 
In Tennessee you have no duty to retreat.

But you can use deadly force against a dog if you reasonably believe the dog was creating an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury to you or someone else or an imminent danger of death to an animal owned by you. See 39-14-205(b) Tennessee code annitated

In Tennessee the state legislature has the last word in firearms laws.

All local government “power derives from the State through specific delegation by the General Assembly.” 421
Corp. v. Metropolitan Government, 36 S.W.3d 469, 475 (Tenn. Ct. App. 2000) (citing State ex rel. SCA Chem.
Servs. v. Sanidas, 681 S.W.2d 557, 562 (Tenn.Ct.App.1984); Family Golf of Nashville, Inc. v. Metropolitan Gov’t,


964 S.W.2d 254, 257 (Tenn.Ct.App.1997)). A local government cannot effectively nullify state law on the same
subject by enacting ordinances that ignore applicable state laws, that grant rights that state law denies, or that deny
rights that state law grants.
See generally State ex rel. Beasley v. Mayor & Aldermen of Fayetteville, 268 S.W.2d
330, 334 (Tenn. 1954).



(2) In determining the value of a police dog, fire dog, search and rescue dog, service animal or police horse under § 39-14-105, the court shall consider the value of the police dog, fire dog, search and rescue dog, service animal or police horse as both the cost of the animal and any specialized training the animal received.


39-14-205b


(b) A person is justified in killing the animal of another if the person acted under a reasonable belief that the animal was creating an imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury to that person or another or an imminent danger of death to an animal owned by that person. A person is not justified in killing the animal of another if at the time of the killing the person is trespassing upon the property of the owner of the animal. The justification for killing the animal of another authorized by this subsection (b) shall not apply to a person who, while engaging in or attempting to escape from criminal conduct, kills a police dog that is acting in its official capacity. In that case the provisions of subsection (a) shall apply to the person.





[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1996, ch. 927, §§ 1, 2; 2004, ch. 957, § 1; 2007, ch. 466, § 1; 2008, ch. 1172, § 1.]
 
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I live in a town of approx 6,000 (which you city people may not classify as an "urban" setting). I hav shot and will shoot again raccons in my back yard with subsonic 22's with no problem. One one occsaion a neighbor asked what I shot and admired the big coon-but other than that no problem. It's technically against the law to discharge a firearm, but this is where comon sense comes into play. I certainly wouldn't use my .44 to dispatch it.
It also helps if we know your status in the community. The LEO will probably be a bit more forgiving if the shooter is an othewise law abiding individual vs the local meth cooker shooting a coon off the top of his trash pile with his hi-point .40 with a beer in his other hand while out on parole.

In other words-the response to your question is heavily based on the specific facts of the situation. ;)
What's that I heard?? Oh yea-common sense.
 
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Tennessee's castle law

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And like I said before, even though some local law enforcement officers don't like it, The state laws of self defense TRUMPS all local ordinances.
 
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CAJUNLAWYER said:
What's that I heard?? Oh yea-common sense.
Click to expand...

My boss once told me "any problem can be solved by using common sense."

To which I replied "Where are we going to find some of that?"

Because clearly no one had any.

But he's right, common sense will solve many problems, but only if the person trying to apply it knows all the relevant facts, the theory the problem entails, and how the facts apply to the specific situation. A pretty high standard.
 
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