Plastic Manifold Intake

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HOUSTON RICK

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Ford has made all their Mustangs for over 10 years with plastic manifold intakes. It seems to non-expert me that these parts should be made of metal. I just dropped $1,000 to have mine replaced (out of extended warranty). I have been told there are no metal aftermarket parts either. Ford last a lawsuit on this part a few years back, but the thickened the walls and moved on with plastic. Any experts on this part? I would like to get Ford Motor to assist with the cost. Thank you.
 
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Manifolds

Rick...I had one fail on a '97 Crown Vic with the performance package....contact Jerry Reynolds who has a web site called the Car Guy. He also has a radio program on WBAP 820 AM. He owned Prestige Ford in the DFW area at one time. I sent him my service records and he got me a 100% refund...said the failure is caused by the engine "burping" and is mostly on the Hi Per, Intercepter and taxi code engines...not sure about tangs....good luck..

jumbeaux
 
God knows I'm an expert on nothing automotive since Reagan's 2nd term! But in an earlier life, I was considered one? While I'm certain the engineering work/fail statistical numbers are heavily in favor of the company, "on engine" parts are subject to a Hellish nightmare of conditions. You'll note the part they selected to go Tupperware on, is a place where aluminum had replaced cast iron years ago. Radiators on some are that way now. A/C condensors, power steering pump body, the list is nearly endless. It's lighter and cheaper. In many cases stronger as well. What can't be known, is the long term effect of time/heat/vibration and exposure to automotive chemicals? A 150K (+ - 50K) mile life span, might be their warranty comfort zone. However were I personally given a choice. I'd want to make sure it was either of the very latest of formulations of materials, or perhaps of a more "bullet proof" material?
Folks keeping cars much longer now, soon may reveal all kinds of unintended consequences.
Probably not what you were looking for, but it's my story and I'm stickin' too it! And it's worth every penny it cost you...
 
I have a 1999 Crown vic with the 4.6L engine. As mentioned ford used all plastic intakes on these. Mine has been replaced at some point with a version that has a aluminum water passage. The part is availible fom ford and I think Dorman company makes them also...
 
I had a 1997 T-Bird with the 4.6. The intake manifold cracked at about 80,000 miles/8 years. My mechanic told me that Ford had sort of an extended warranty on them and if they failed in the first 7 years, Ford replaced it free. So it didn't help me. There should be a technical service bulletin (TSB) on this if you can get a dealer to look it up for you.

The replacements are slightly re-engineered and supposedly don't fail with any regularity.
 
Everybody uses plastic, I've replaced numerous intakes and gaskets BUT we never got close to $1K, I guess it's time to get busy with the customer raping.

The 4.6 engines do have an updated coolant passage to alleviate the coolant leaks people were having with those intakes.
 
$1000 was far too much to pay to have a manifold replaced. It's not a hard job to do yourself if you're mechanically inclined, you don't have to be a car expert. You didn't say whether it's a 4.6 or the 3.8 V6. If it's a 99-up 4.6, Trick Flow makes an afternarket intake manifold that is made from cast aluminum. If it's a 96-98 4.6, you can still use the intake but you have to swap out the cylinder heads to the 99-up. The Trick Flow manifolds are an aftermarket performance manifold, so you'll notice a little extra power too if you go that route. Now if you have a 3.8, there aren't any options I know of without calling Morana Racing and spending quite a bit of money on a performance manifold.
 
There are aluminum upgrade manifolds available, but not from ford.

Due to the EPA regs in this country, virtually no aluminum casting is being done here now. As the number of outfits that can do this work decreases, the prices for their work soars.

I tent to keep my vehicles "till the wheels fall off", so if I had one of these engines, I would replace the mattel intake with a real one.
 
Check out the hidden warranty of eight years and 80,000 miles on the manifolds. I was a fleet mechanic for the PSP, and this warranty was in place for the Crown Vic police interceptors, dont know if this covers other models but its worth checking out! The new ones are trouble free.
 
I'm not so sure about warranty issues, but the new replacement intake from Ford on the 4.6 V8s is made from aluminum. I think most of these cracked along the water crossover at the front around the thermostat. Most of the cars were Crown Vic's, but I have seen a Mustang or two do it. Most of the Mustangs with messed up plastic manifolds have had some encouragement in that area in the form of nitrous oxide. Nitrous builds pressure rather sharply, and can cause a catastrophic failure in a hurry. You'd be surprised how many times a guy has tried to "warranty" a manifold, only to not be able to cover up where he mounted his bottle brackets, ran his lines through the floorboards and down the frame, or worse yet, forgot to remove his nitrous solenoid before coming to the dealership. The new 3V Mustangs have plastic intakes as well, but since this motor and head and intake design began in 2005, I haven't heard of any failures.
 
H.R you can thank our goverment again ! Ford has to cut the weight of their cars and trucks to meet EPA mileage standards. I replaced my plastic manifold on our windstar about 8years ago. I just purchased an escape for my wife and its all plastic ! Mark
 
HOUSTON RICK:

Sorry to hear about your intake. Plastic is used because it is lighter than metal (including the aluminum intakes available), easy to produce, and it does not suffer from heat soak. For non-nitrous users, the intake tended to crack near the thermostat on the older 4.6L engines (mostly pre-99 but some later years popped intakes, too). Ford updated the intake with an aluminum crossover piece that holds one or two temperature sensors and the t-stat. Your new intake should have an aluminum crossover (behind the alternator).

FWIW, I think $1,000 is unreasonable. The new intake lists for about $200 to $250 (Ford part, not a Dorman part). The intake gaskets are re-usable and very rarely fail so you don't need to spend $35 on new ones. It does not take more than four hours (working at a turtle-like pace in my driveway) to change the intake so that is 4 * 85 = $340 for dealership shop labor. Add another $50 for "fluids" (coolant top-up, RTV) and your bill should be about $600 to $650.

Like the other posters have suggested, have a friendly chat with your Service Manager. I would even write a letter (on paper, not an e-mail) to the dealership owner and to FoMoCo. Even if your car is out of extended warranty (for the intake), cracking intakes is a known problem with the older vehicles and they should not be charging you MSRP for the new part. I think you have a strong argument for a big reduction on your bill. I hope that you get a decent rebate.

Please let us know how this works out.

Chris

Chris
 
I was at one time involved in the casting of first iron, then aluminum intake manifolds (iron exhausts as well) at GM Powertrain. Weight reduction was indeed the main reason for the changes as we moved through the metals to plastic.
Fuel injection was the big enabler for plastic. You no longer have to support a relatively heavy carburetor and lots of plumbing. Nor is the shape of the passage to the head as critical as it was since the air fuel mixture is not being handled in it.
I think that direct fuel injection will bring about even more changes.
Although if the 35mpg requirement stands, the engineering will be done by Waxman & Pelosi. I eagerly await the results.
 
You should be able to find aluminum for less than $500. Check out summit racing.
The plastic doesn't surprise me. I have stopped supporting the american car makers. I now buy what I want no matter where it comes from. I just bought a Toyota Tacoma. Assembled in the us, but the engine is high tech japan. DOC all aluminum. I have always bought american and always had to work on every one of them. I am tired of the big car companys, the big auto unions, and the democrats and republicans that support the second class cars and trucks they put out. Every magazine that does testing says I won't need to work on my Tacoma for 200,000 miles or more if I service it properly. The F-150 come real close and If I could have gotten it for the same money, maybe I would have bought it, mexican parts and all. Its a world economy now. Ok I just bought a high tech double over head cam aluminum Toyota. No plastic, and no 1960's technology. I can't work on this Toyota engine and at 63, I don't have the desire to. By the way, i'm an x union guy. I still support my union (not autoworkers). Thats another story I won't get into now.
Phil
 
Ford found on rocker covers that, by the time you got a plastic part rigid enough to seal properly, you had added so much material that the resulting part was no longer cheaper or lighter than aluminum. By the time I retired I was designing aluminum and magnesium covers only.

There are still a lot of aluminum and magnesium castings made in this country. There was (may still be) a movement to outsource a lot of castings to China, but that was to take advantage of cheap labor, not because of the EPA.

My wife's 4.6L intake failed also, 400 miles away from home. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't $1k either.
 
I know of no reason either that steel, iron, aluminum, or magnesium cannot be cast in the US, in fact it all is being cast here. As far as I know GM, Ford, and Chrysler still cast iron blocks here.
Mostly hubs, rotors, and similar small parts have been outsourced to system sources, but many are still cast here, just not by the big three.
Yes the EPA is a major cost factor. But as enfield says labor cost (UAW) is the major factor for shifting casting off shore or to Mexico.
I really don’t keep up but when last I knew, Toyota and Honda were both casting aluminum here.

It remains though that weight is the major factor in the decision to go to plastics. Vehicle designers (and management) will sell their souls to cut out a couple of ounces. Power train engineers are always overruled.
That is why brake master cylinders have plastic reservoirs, it adds cost, not reduces. But, a few ounces here a few there and soon you have saved a pound and perhaps .000001 MPG.

Progress, assuming that is what you call it, doesn’t come cheap!
 
My '94 Buick has a plastic intake manifold, and I've had to have it replaced once. I guess it's pretty much standard now to save weight.
 
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