I was in Dillards this Saturday afternoon with my two young daughters in the ladies department when I started hearing some loud, crashing sounds. I see racks of clothers getting knocked down and hear a woman screaming "GET HIM, GET HIM", then I see this tall, lanky, black dude running at me with some sacks, knocking down everything in his way! A heavy-set white guy with a neck tie is chasing him as the old women are trying to get out of his way, and I leave my daughters and run over to grab or tackle him. At the last minute I stopped and just started thinking about getting sued by him if he were to say he was injured after I tackled him. I thought the big white guy had him but he ran out of steam right as the shoplifter hit the doors, and then ran across the parking lot. I own a construction company and have had tens of thousands of dollars worth of things stolen from me and most of it wasn't covered by insurance and I would sure want someone to help if I was getting ripped off, so I felt really bad that I didn't try harder to catch the guy. I might be dumb but I wasn't afraid of getting hurt, only of getting sued, but was wondering what are the laws on a bystander helping to stop a crime and what would you guys do in that situation?

Good Samaritan law may apply here?

1950: Tackle the guy, the cops come and arrest him, and you get your items free as a thank you from the store manager.

2009: You get sued by the bad guy, and the store (because the bad guy is suing them as well), and you lose both suits costing you a years salary.

JMHO, you did the smart thing. Was it the morally right thing to do? I know that clotheslining the punk would definately have been the right thing to do, but these days you get punished for having morals and acting on them. Too bad really.

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Freedom above all else.

This goes back 35 years ago, maybe more.

A shoplifter in Detrot's J.L. Hudson's Department Store was discovered and made it out the door with a salesman chasing him. The salesman caught up with him and was knifed to death over store property. As I recall, the thief got away and, well, the salesman is still dead. Later the store closed its doors for good and the building was demolished, bringing a close to downtown Detroit's most prestigous store.

In another tale of woe, a citizen claiming to be a shoplifter showed me an expensive wristwatch and diamond rings while I was in my car in a department store parking lot. When he saw my girlfriend he tried to get in my car. That's when he met my Colt Commander and I won that round. Later I discovered the watch and rings were really junk with phoney price tags and the thief was really a con man.

If there is a moral to this story it is that these guys are potentially dangerous and it is not your problem, unless you are a LEO. If the BG is hurting someone or threatens you or yours, things change. By and large, it is the store's problem, not yours.

I think you did the right thing by not getting involved in a shoplifting incident. It's not worth putting yourself in danger for. Especially when you have a family to think about. A couple years ago a man saw a purse snatcher grab a womans purse here in Nashville. It was outside a store. The man tried to stop the thief and was stabbed to death. As WG-840 said, times have changed. There's too many crazies out there now.

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Misty

when I used to work security jobs for Dill???? we (as uniformed officers) were not allowed to chase shoplifters unless had the permission of a manager. that was company policy.

There was a shooting at Dill???? in Houston (I believe it involved the police) a few years ago. I recall the manager confronting me and himhawing around that I will not shoot anyone inside Dill???? while working for them. I told the manager that if the situation presents itself and I have to use deadly force, I would not hesitate. The manager did not like my answer and I stop working their.

What is the likelyhood of police officers working security at Dill???? and using deadly force.

In little ol Victoria a few years back, a Dill???? employee was killed (shot) as they arrived for work at 10am by her estranged boyfriend.

It can happen anywhere and there are many major dept stores who would prefer to let a shoplifter walk than to face civil lawsuits.

Prior to me leaving Dill????, there was a report of a known shoplifter named by the employees as SASQUATCH. SASQUATCH was 6'05" well over 200lbs, female built like a man who was so aggressive, she would grab items in front of store clerks, place them under her dress between her legs and walk out the store. any officer that had to deal with the huge female was in for a fight.

I was turning the corner working security one day and a very large muscular female walked past me. In fact as she passed me, she said hello officer. I stopped dead in my tracks, turned around and realized I encountered SASQUATCH. Sasquatch stopped, turned around and walked out the door she just walked in.

OK, I am 6'03" 270 and Sasquatch stood taller than me. I bet she thought twice and decided to steal another day. I am glad she left because Sasquatch was definitely nightstick material as they would not have liked me to pepper spray in Dill????

I think you made the right decision too.

I suppose you are all right.......but back when I was young and dumb and full of invincibility, a buddy and I were hanging out in the tool section at Sears. Apparently a loss prevention specialist about the size of Hulk Hogan had witnessed a shoplifter walk out the store with some unpaid merchandise, followed him out of the store and was escorting him back in when for what ever reason, he decides to choke this guy out.

The shoplifter was medium height with a slight build. Hulk had at least a hundred pounds on the guy and the guy never moved a muscle to resist during the entire episode. When the shoplifter dropped to his knees, turned white and started salivating, my buddy and I verbally intervened to the jeers of the other Sears employees. Hulk showed no signs of backing off so my buddy and I grabbed pipe wrenches and advanced. Hulk's attititude took an abrupt change at that point and he got off the guy.

I guess he was just trying to teach the guy a lesson, but it seemed excessive to us. We hung out until the men in blue showed so there wouldn't be a repeat performance.

Smart guy[you].That's what insurance is for.

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WALSTIB

Years ago I was in a 711 at about 11 at night, All I wanted was a diet coke for the caffeen. When a 14 or so old skinny kid tried to hold my up with a paper bag, I told him firmly NO, He then demanded $$ from the cashier, The cashier was with me, saying NO, I was ready to pop the kid real good upside the head, He was about 100 lbs, But then I didnt, Thinking he would sue me.
There were 2 others laying on the floor in the back scared,
The cashier finally opened the drawer, And when the kid reached into the drawer with the paper bag hand and no gun, The cashier slammed the drawer closed into his fingers, The kid took off running screaming.
I paid for my Coke and left feeling like I should have taken him down, And maybe gotten sued for knocking out a 14 year old kid.
If I had carried back then, I think I might have drawn on him and held him till the cops came. I knew he didnt have a gun.
I still wonder if I did the right thing to this day.
Peter

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Need 1/2 moon Chiefs special

if you tackled him you would have been a racist.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

In this day and time, I tink you made the right decision.

You did the right thing. I am sure Dillards is well insured, and I am not going to risk getting killed to help them stop a shot lifter! Rest assured they are not going to hold a parade in your honor and appoint you to the board of directors if you get involved. If there is potential risk to somebody's life, that is a different matter.

You have no way to know what you don't know, and there's a lot you'd have had to assumed in order to want to get involved in this one. If you're not actually a witness to whatever acts led to the flight, best not to take sides.

A side-note: it is NEVER appropriate to defend property by the use of deadly force.

If it's the property of a privately owned business, I agree. If it is my personal property, I won't rule any option out.

Snap a pic of the perp with your cellphone. Offer it to the police if they show up.

No need to get shot or knifed over some shirts made in some third world backwater that belong to a chain department store.

You made the right move dont lose any sleep over it, could have turned into a major nightmere situation most stores dont want the liability of pursuing thieves a pair of pants isnt worth the hassle or someones life.

Considered a thread in a similar vein but here's a good a spot as anywhere.

Was traveling to the DC area yesterday and was enjoying a cigar along the way when I came upon a vehicle being operated in a very erratic manner. Seriously, the car was meandering along the highway in such a fashion that I believed it to be a hazard to me...and others.

I called "911" and remained on the phone for a bit as I conveyed pertinent info. To make a long story short, a county officer responded ASAP, and I id'd the violator as we proceded down the roadway. The officer attempted a stop and the violator seemed to be non-compliant. I then stopped to offer assistance; said assistance was requested. Violator was placed under arrest. LE personnel on scene asked that I document what I observed and provide personal info. Pursuant to state "requirements," they asked for my name, address, etc. I provided it...w/o any restrictions and indicated I would be available for court/testimony.

MY choices throughout. I consider it my obligation to assist LE whenever needed; in this case it clearly was needed. Moreover, I am never reluctant to ID myself.

My decisions, my choices; decisions/choices easily made.

Be safe.

Farmer -

the key words I saw were "two young daughters" nothing takes precedence over their safety.

First move I would have taken would be to get them out of there, a
lot of these thieves work in teams.

Sometimes its hard to think clearly in the heat of the moment, so -

stop
think
prioritize.

Consider yourself very smart for not getting involved. Stores like Dillard's, Belks's, Sears, etc. build $$ into their yearly budgets for losses just like this.

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Happiness is a warm 686

Citizen's arrest anybody???

Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 14.01. [212] [259] [247] OFFENSE WITHIN VIEW.
(a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony or as an offense against the public peace.

I understand why this is not the preferred way if in a private business with kids. I had a problem 15 years ago with 15-18 year old punks endangering the life of my 6 year old daughter by throwing stuff over a privacy fence. I also had a witness that placed one of them in my driveway when a vehicle was keyed. The city police had me give them a warning that if they came on my property again, I could arrest them for tresspassing. I asked the locals what I could do if they were caught and resisted, and they said "whatever is necessary". I don't know if this was all legal, but it got their attention and I never had another problem with them.

Anybody else have comments about citizen arrests?

You did the right thing. Why risk your livelihood and possibly your life for a few hundred dollars worth of insured department store merchandise? If the criminal sued you you would be out your attorney fees at minimum. Many stores have a no pursuit policy for their employees to avoid liability hassles. I understand and applaud the urge to help but in this case it wasn't worth it.

burk, unless the crime is a felony or a crime against public peace, it does not work for theft. unless felony theft.

Article 18.16 would fit for preventing the consequences of theft.

Yes, lots of interesting but conflicting laws. Thanks for your input. I beleive that Texas law was orginally written to protect the average, law abiding person. It has been modified so much that the crooks have the advantage now.

As my ex used to tell the night shift when cautioning them about stolen car chases through Newark NJ: Allstate isn't going to send your widow a thank-you note.

If it were me in your shoes, I'd want to shoot the mofo but it's not the thing to do over some property theft. I imagine if you wanted to get involved, just be a good witness. Were the cops even called?

When I worked security in a rather notorious shopping mall in Houston many years ago, the security force were protected under something called "merchant's code"...whenever we did arrests, it was usually under the supervision of an LEO working an extra job.
Times have changed since then.
I WOULD NOT as a private citizen or a security guard EVEN ATTEMPT to effect a citizen's arrest today. The laws are way too vague on what is a "offense of the peace" and if a felony on-view is involved, chances are REAL good the perp is going to have a weapon. I always told my security officers that they were not assigned to a post to die for someones property and I didn't care who yelled at them be it client or guard company neither of which cared a hoot and a holler for the guards as it was.
The only time I would ever take physical action in this day and age is if a life was at stake. Other than that, call 9-1-1, get a description, and STAY OUT OF IT.

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The Last Standing Knight

You are correct sir. I had my Harley stolen from me while I was only away from it for a few minutes, just disappeared. I work hard for my toys and I feel the scum involved would have deserved whatever measures needed to stop the theft.

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Let go...Let Gun

Store stuff, help yourself. Now if he'd snatched up somebody's kid, he ain't leaving, period. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

What I usually do is try to slow them down by stepping out in front of them and say "Excuse me my man, do you have a dollar I can borrow?" or "You want to buy a cell phone?" or something like that to divert their attention and delay the getaway.
If they are getting into a car in the parking lot to flee, I usually break out my squeegy and start washing their windows to slow them down.

As an aside, when I was a rookie many moons ago, we got a call from a supermarket that they had a female shop lifter. When we got there, they told us she had stolen a frozen turkey and put it under her sweat shirt. She was screaming that she was pregnant and she was going to sue if she was touched. Being new I was ready to shake her down, but my veteran partner told me to relax and have a cup of coffee. Well it didn't take too long before she couldn't stand the cold, and dropped the turkey!

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TomD

These days and times, unless its my family or a child that is threatened, I'm a Good Witness.

I spent almost 34 years saving the public, but I don't have that career/job anymore.

Rule 303

My God, ain't that the truth.

Trespassers will be violated, and if someone shows up in my house late at night, he will be ventilated.

Me: "Ought buck or two?"
Perp: "What?"
Me: "*blam!*"

(A take-off of the old question about sugar cubes with your tea.)

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Lost it all in a boat accident

During the few times I've helped to stop a crime, a law suit was the last thing on my mind.
Same with rendering first aid at an accident.

I was coaching a practice, for youth baseball, many years ago. My right fielder pointed out 3 young men, chasing another one, on another field nearby. I started running in that direction. The three caought him and started kicking him. I started yelling as I neared them. They saw me coming and ran away. As they were running away, I noticed all three were bigger than me. The young man had a broken arm. Rescue came and took him away.

I figured three on one was cowardly, so I acted. Now I know, I acted stupidly, and could have been hurt also. I just couldn't stand by, like many others did, and do nothing. I guess, I was lucky, I wasn't hurt.

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PC, censorship
with a smile.

Kudos to 11B Lifer and red14!!!

Thank you for stepping up to be counted when needed.

I would proudly buy you a beer!

Be safe.

I can understand your dcision to not get involved especially with your two daughters there. I have gotten involved several times with no ill effects before becoming an LEO and I still get involved now.
One of the problems I see with the country lately is the unwillingness of people to get involved or to help their fellow citizens/neighbors. "It's not my property, why get involved?" The potential problem with this is, if he is not stopped for this crime, the next crime might be against you or someone you know. It might be a petty crime now, but the next could be something worse.
Just my two cents - Joe

Here is one of the cases when it's okay to tackle somebody in Wal-Mart... When they molest a little girl and are running away:

Colorado Man in Wheelchair Tackles Suspected Child Molester in Walmart - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com