Is it just me, or are the Old Time guns guys disappearing. Not just this forum, but on the gunboards in general. I've noticed a good deal of the Grizzley Old Farts that had a ton of knowledge aren't posting anymore. Some of these guys were interesting in their anecdotes and general gun knowledge and history...

When I posted a thread the other day about a old holster maker and it seemed like nobody knew what I was talking about....it really hit home.


giz

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Non gratum anus rodentum

I don't think I'm an old timer but I like old stuff. Did you check out that 92 Winchester 44 in my thread the other day? It's on here somewhere. Tell me what you think as someone mentioned your name as a fan of these slickest of lever guns.

Wyatt,

Saw it and waited for more pics.. Couldn't tell but it looked like a great gun. Just posted.

S&W collecting is a passion for some, and interest/hobby for others, and a life experience for a few old-timers. Those old timers have a different take on things. They remember the Skeeter/Elmer days. You mention the Red Gods and they know your talkin' about Bill Jordan. They waited to be able to buy those early 44 Mags, remember the introduction of the .41 and why it failed to take-off, can tell you about the early .45 ACP targets, remember the .39's introduction in 1954 and what that meant....Can even tell you about S&W's crazy idea of loading a .38 Wadcutter into a Semi-Auto with a 5 shot magazine...and will instantly tell you the model....

Afraid were losing them, and nobody is taking their place...


giz

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Non gratum anus rodentum

I'll be 63 on my next birthday and been into guns since - honestly - before starting school as a child. I remember much of what you mention.

It seems to me that the older you get the less people are interested in what you have to say. I'm surprised to see someone looking for an old timer's opinion.

I remember when gun magazines first hit the market and even had some first issues. Yes, I grew up with the old gun writers and even corresponded with Jeff Cooper a few times. That and a dollar and a half will get me a coffee at the old folks home.

Times have sure changed, I'll give you that. Some for the better, much not.

There's plenty of seniors around here. Maybe we just need to write more. Or pay more attention.

S/W - Lifer

(In it for the long haul)

I've noticed this at work more than I have here. An example is that a couple of years ago I located two escapees. I called the office and they hooked me up with a younger investigator. I told him what I had and asked for a catch team and he told me he was busy and in the middle of a conference with a bunch of other officers about ...the escapees. I said "thats fine, ya'll keep meeting, I'll just go over there and blow them away myself." The catch team was there ten minutes later and we got the guys. I enjoy talking to people older than myself even though that is increasingly getting harder to do. You can learn a lot. The younger folks seem to be more into technology than having an old fashion informant network. I still find lots of useful info here.

The shooting sports are a living breathing-dynamic, if you prefer-activity, the amount and type of knowledge increases, tastes in firearms change, yesterday's "gun expert" becomes today's old timer and tomorrow's "historical figure". I doubt we will ever see another Charlie Askins or Bill Jordan or Elmer Keith because the circumstances under which they became gun people will not repeat. I also think if some "Old Timers" disappear it's because they've shuffled off this mortal earth or been "called home" or "gone to meet the Lord" and if they didn't leave instructions for someone to log them off for the Last Time there's no way we will know of their departure.

There are a few anomalies around...

I think many posters get, well...kinda burned out answering the same questions and just want to sit back and read for a while, or don't want to seem like a know it all, just let someone else answer or got busy with life outside the forum.

I am a firm believer that members posting in forums have "cycles" that they run through once they realize post counts matter little to nothing next to the knowledge they gave and received over their time being a participant. The cycles are different for each member as to what they consist of, but they happen just the same.

Yes, we are losing a lot of knowledge through the passing of members that grew up reading the stories of Keith and Jordon, but there is no reason that a new generation of shooters can't be introduced to the wonderful works of those that came before. The only reason new shooters don't know about them is not one single person told them about it. I suppose Keith and Jordon "isms" are a type of religion...of shooters. Introduce a new shooter to the great works so they may appreciate them if at all possible. Those grand books on your bookshelf aren't work a plug nickel if someone isn't reading them.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Giz;

I don't believe it's just you, I've been seeing the same trend here and elsewhere. The explanations for the absence of many "old timers" is subject to different observations. I've spoken to a number of guys who have posted vigorously here for years, and who, for one reason or another have lost interest. I think on some level, it comes down to how often you can read or comment on the same subjects.

Not everyone has a broad interest in all things S&W, some guys only post in a particular section that best reflects their interests. Eventually, they've said all they can on a particular subject and probably don't want to keep repeating what they, or others, have already said. A few guys have told me that they were disenchanted with much of the off topic BS that inappropriately winds up in gunboard discussions.

Perhaps I'm not clever enough or insightful enough to offer a better explanation, but it takes great stamina to reply to the same question on the same subject repeatedly. It gets old and dull for many I suppose. On the other hand, personally, I find myself discussing subjects I'm interested in more often these days via email, rather than publicly. Eventually, most of us develop correspondents who share similar interests and know where they can share information and get answers to collecting's persistent questions. It narrows the subject range and minimizes the BS.

Finally, everything changes eventually. The S&W Forum is an example of change, as it has evolved over the past year or so. Some believe it's better, new and improved, some don't. Others don't have an opinion one way or another. People come and people go, simply put, that's life in general and the internet is to some extent, it's reflection.

Cheers!
Lefty
BELL CHARTER OAK CUSTOM HOLSTERS (607) 783-2483

The old timers? They all died off. Sorry to be blunt about it. If I had any perspective, I'd realize I'm the current crop of old timer. But I'm going the same way they all did!

When I was young, as in maybe 10 or 11, I knew a guy who'd been in the civil war, or so he said. It was pretty impressive to listen to his stories. But he was really old, like over 100 then. He died. My grandfather was born in 1886, had great stories, played in the Colorado and Rio Grand Railway band! There was even a picture of him in a bar in Basalt, CO. I was having a beer with a friend and I looked up at a picture on the wall. I recognized the photo from the early 1900s. I'd seen it thousands of times on my grandparents living room wall.

As far as gun boards and people vanishing, it just happens. We've lost some very interesting folks here. I was thinking the other day about el Bibliotacario, a poster here. He vanished. So did a bunch of other posters. Even Para vanished! Some come back for a few posts which tell me they still lurk, with Michael Stern being one I was glad to see back. I enjoy different and mature perspectives.

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Dick Burg

I dip my fingers in Grecian Formula 44 before posting so no one will know.

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NRA Life Member

Old timers like me are no longer relevant. The stories of the people we knew and our experiences are do not relate to the circumstances younger folks have to deal with and thus must not be true.

It's better to be silent than to be taken for a fool or a liar.

I think those who fail to see the relevance are the true fools and they are worse than liars because they lie to themselves.

Keep on truckin Iggy, I've got your back.

Frank

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sona si latine loqueris .

Gee, Charlie. Based on that last thread of yours, You wouldn't need to pull a gun. You could just wolf down some cajun food and go fart in thier window. They'd surrender in a minute. It would be better than tear gas, the way you so vividly described it.

Iggy and others,

I, for one (and am pretty sure not the only one), appreciate what y'all have to offer. Some of us older folks appreciate your wisdom and sage advice. I'd rather hear from years of experience rather than minutes, hours, days. Please continue to contribute, this place isn't the same without y'all.

Sincerely,

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Barry, youngest son of Claud

A little off subject. I hiked out of the Grand Canyon once and found myself in Kanab, Utah. I wanted to know about the history of the place. There was a drunk old guy panhandling on the street. Everybody ignored him. I figured he's the guy to talk to. Sure enough, he was a treasure trove of information. The point is, everyone ignored him and considered him irrelevant and just some drunk on the street. Thier loss.

As my dad likes to say, "Times change. People don't." This means that people are people through history, with character flaws, relationship problems, needs and behaviors.

I have learned that the ones you least expect to have the most to offer are usually the ones worth listening to.

Don't feel too bad about that, Giz. The other day I posted a question and got told that I don't know how to ask a question.

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You're shy a few manners.

Some of it is inevitable, that's just the way things go as generations proceed.

50 years from now the 'old timers' will be reminiscing about plastic semi auto's just like they do over revolvers now.

Same thing with car enthusiasts. 50 years from now the 'old timers' will be reminiscing about lowered Honda's and other imports with carbon fiber hoods and big fart cans.

Time marches on.

I don't know where they went, but this is one Old Grizzly Fart that keeps on posting, whenever I think my 2 cents will enlighten a newcomer's knowledge of all things S&W( and other brands of shootin' irons). Yes, I knew Elmer & Skeeter and Bill and most of the other fringe characters in the gun fraternity or Hollywood crowd. They were polarizing guys in their day, as lots of gun guys thought they were full of BS with their shooting stories. I grew up with Indians & Cowboys ( real ones, as well as Hollywood extras) and learned to shoot with .22RF guns and muzzle loaders as I couldn't find reliable ammo. for my .44RF Henry rifle. I don't mind my Dinasaur lable, even though I call any S&W with a Model number on it a "shooter," not a collectable! Those guns are way to new to be interesting! Favorite guns in my S&W stash are two made personally by D.B.Wesson , a rifle and a revolver. ( No, he did not give them to me, as alledged by some of my friends!) Usually my collecting style over the years is not to accumulate large quanities of S&Ws, but to keep them long enough to research their history, learn what I can about them, and sell or trade them for something different. I don't limit my interests to S&Ws, as I have collections of High Standards, Marlins, Colts and a special favorite, Rusty Dug Ups & Relics. The Rusties attract more interest when displayed than any other guns. Even the Smithsonian thinks so, as they borrowed 36 guns from my Rusty Collection for a years display and said the public feedback was astounding ( If They Could Only Talk!) as the guns had come from locations like the OK Corral to the Little Big Horn. Bottomline: If the Good Lord's Willin' and the Creeks Don't Rise, I'll keep on posting 'til they give me that Front Table at the Big Gun Show in the Sky! Ed Cornett, FM & LM S&WCA # 15

What did he charge you?

Ed, you are truly one of our treasures. Thanks for all you share.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Pssssst... why didn't you encourage him to POST SOME PICTURES!?!


GF

There were a lot of good reasons given above for the lack of postings from older members. I'll give you one more: The guns most popular with the majority these days seem to be polymer frame handguns and AR-style rifles, both of which have absolutely no appeal to me.

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Quoth the raven:
"Nevermore"

That's the truth Don95. Guns have to have walnut stocks & bluing to be interesting. Guess I'm an old fart but at age 78 I'm hunting in Nevada later this month with son in law & grandson for deer. Don't use the magnums anymore just a vintage Mod. 88 Win .308. Can't stand the recoil & muzzle blast, I leave that to the kids. I remember WW2 real well. Started hunting then with a Rem. Mod. 33 single shot. Had to make each shot count as shells were hard to come by. Had a bunch of guns over the years. Started collecting Colts in the '50's but they got too expensive so went to S&W's. Good thing too as they appreciated well. Gave most to my kids & grandkids. And Yes I read a lot of Elmer, O'conner, Clyde Ormond, Warren Page, Skeeter, Askins, etc. All are gone now but fondly remembered. Good education for a gun nut kid. I kept my Win 94 30-30, Win 16 Ga double and a few others dear to my heart like a pre war Colt S.A. 44 Special & a nice Luger & a S&W 22-32 Target. Colt has a Geo. Lawrence holster just as good as when I bought it in 1957.Well I've rambled enough, good to talk to you guys. Later, Dick

im coming up on 45, and dont know too much, but i hope i can learn a thing or two here, i kinna miss the old farts myself!

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

My being in the age classification is one thing but not being knowledgeable enough to make contributions is the reason I am never able to offer much of anything constructive. I'm one Old Fart who appreciates those who are always willing to share and seem to have unlimited patience with those of us in the novice class. Thank each of you for sharing and caring. A portion of each of my days is used to search for new and interesting post on the S&W Forum, I hope to reach a point, may be even a portion above dumb, if I live long enough and the "Old" Experienced Members continue to offer and share their knowledge. Thanks again,

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Sam
S&WHF 333 S&WCA 2198

P.S; I called my son in law tonight. It's his Birthday. My daughter & others gave him a Life membership to NRA. That's one thing he always wanted. Happy as a clam at high tide. I told him I went Endowment last year. Maybe if I hit the big one I'll get him one also.

I don't post much on this forum but on some of the more local gun forums it seems the youngsters have taken over.
Foul language, arguments, and just plain bad manners.
I think a lot of the old timers (Guess I am getting close at 58) just ignore the forums anymore.

I am in a similar position and have the same feelings as smitholdtimer. In a few years, I just might reach Novice status...

However, I have an abundance of knowledge in IT Managed Computer Operations but alas, that knowledge is worthless on this forum and a forum that would fit that area would not be fun at all....

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Barry, youngest son of Claud

Well, heck, I'm still here lurking, even if I never have anything too smart to add.
Sonny

At 68 I still have a great deal to learn from the young and the rest of the old farts!!! I found S&Ws just a few years ago and everyday I surf this forum to partake of its wisdom. Like most, I have collected/accumalated Winchesters; Colts; Marlins; Lugers; etc. depending on what part of the world I called home. Uncle Sam has shown me the world but the gun faternity has kept me interested since before my teens. The diversity of the posts on this forum are what keeps me coming back. My 2 cents!!!

WOW. I miss 'em all.

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -